UK Parliament / Open data

Identity Cards Bill

Committee of the Whole House (HL) and Debate on bills on Tuesday, 15 November 2005, in the House of Lords.
Identity Cards Bill. Lords committee stage first day. Clause 1 under consideration. (Part 1 of 1)

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

675 c958-1028 

Session

2005-06

Department

Home Office

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber

Related items

Identity Cards Bill. Brought from the Commons. Explanatory notes HL Bill 28-EN also published.
Wednesday, 19 October 2005
Bills
House of Lords
Identity Cards Bill
Tuesday, 15 November 2005
Parliamentary proceedings
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Baroness Carnegy of Lour | 675 c1014-5 (Link to this contribution) I respect enormously the point of view of the noble Lord, Lord Gould. He holds it passionately, and ...
Earl of Erroll | 675 c1015 (Link to this contribution) I shall not make another Second Reading speech as a lot of other noble Lords have; I merely refer to...

Show all contributions (206)
Lord Gould of Brookwood | 675 c1013 (Link to this contribution) The most important part of our democracy is the fact that this is mandated by the manifesto. There a...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 675 c1013-4 (Link to this contribution) I have great respect for the opinion of the noble Lord, Lord Gould, on these matters, and I find mys...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 675 c1013 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord will know from his profession that opinion polls in Australia were in favour of ident...
Lord Gould of Brookwood | 675 c1013 (Link to this contribution) My understanding is that the public want more compulsion, not less, and they want this done quickly,...
Earl of Northesk | 675 c1012-3 (Link to this contribution) Would the noble Lord accept that there is a very important distinction to be drawn between ID cards,...
Earl of Onslow | 675 c1011-2 (Link to this contribution) My father fought from 1941 until he was captured in 1944 at the age of 31 commanding a regiment of y...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 675 c1009-11 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 4:"Page 1, line 4, leave out ““Identity”” and insert ““Surveillance””" The nobl...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 675 c1017 (Link to this contribution) That is a very good point and I must confess that I had forgotten it. Those on the Labour Benches we...
Lord Lyell of Markyate | 675 c1017-8 (Link to this contribution) I agree that it has been a very good debate. The only way to understand the Bill is to try to consid...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 675 c1018 (Link to this contribution) That is absolutely not what I said. Cards will be of considerable use to the police and, to get that...
Lord Maxton | 675 c1016 (Link to this contribution) I do not see the big difference. I have no problem in giving all sorts of information to organisatio...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 675 c1015-6 (Link to this contribution) Is there not a terrific difference between, first, the system of Barclays Bank having all sorts of i...
Lord Waddington | 675 c1017 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord expressed his opinion that the Bill is anti-Labour, but was he not understating the c...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 675 c1016-7 (Link to this contribution) I support the amendment because it really says what this is all about—surveillance. It is about not ...
Lord Maxton | 675 c1015 (Link to this contribution) I am loath to rise again but my noble friend Lord Gould said that the world had changed politically,...
Lord Maxton | 675 c1015 (Link to this contribution) People already give that information in terms of their passports. I do not understand what the argum...
Earl of Onslow | 675 c1015 (Link to this contribution) The world has changed since 1941, in this country infinitely for the better. The reason I am not hap...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 675 c1006-7 (Link to this contribution) What a pleasure it is, for the second time in my experience, to be able to agree with the noble Lord...
Earl of Erroll | 675 c1006 (Link to this contribution) First, obviously it is a ““national”” and not a ““British”” identity card. Many people who are not B...
Lord Selsdon | 675 c1006 (Link to this contribution) I think that it applies to everything because we have had national identity cards in the past and I ...
Baroness Henig | 675 c1006 (Link to this contribution) But the amendment relates to identity cards.
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 675 c1008 (Link to this contribution) ““Secretary of State”” is a generic term. It can refer to all or any Secretary of State, not least b...
Lord Selsdon | 675 c1007-8 (Link to this contribution) My passport, which I carry with me for about 40 weeks of the year, says at the top ““European Union”...
Baroness Henig | 675 c1006 (Link to this contribution) Does the noble Lord feel the same about the national insurance scheme and the National Health Servic...
Lord Selsdon | 675 c1006 (Link to this contribution) I was not referring to nationals. I was saying that under the law you can only be a British citizen;...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 675 c1005 (Link to this contribution) Will the noble Lord give way? The answer is that the noble Lord is not required to wear it around hi...
Lord Selsdon | 675 c1005-6 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord knows that he and I share that view, and I do not wear it around my neck. As I was ab...
Baroness Seccombe | 675 c1008-9 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for her answer. We have raised only issues that reflect parliamentary views in ...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 675 c1008 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord. The truth is that EU citizens do not have to surrender their own national ca...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 675 c1009 (Link to this contribution) The question related to the position of an EU national. An EU national would not have to have his in...
Earl of Onslow | 675 c1009 (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Baroness withdraws the amendment perhaps I can ask the Minister a question. The nob...
Baroness Seccombe | 675 c1009 (Link to this contribution) I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Lord Selsdon | 675 c1008 (Link to this contribution) On several occasions, in rather beaten-up parts of the world, which I shall not name, I have used my...
Lord Gould of Brookwood | 675 c1008 (Link to this contribution) If the noble Lord had had an identity card he would have been all right.
Lord Bridges | 675 c1008 (Link to this contribution) In such a situation, I believe there has been a change of usage. I remember in my youth having a pas...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 675 c1008 (Link to this contribution) The short answer is that the noble Lord, Lord Selsdon, could take his pick. The term ““Secretary of ...
Lord Selsdon | 675 c1008 (Link to this contribution) I was asking about foreign nationals within the European Union having to surrender their identity ca...
Lord Maxton | 675 c1003 (Link to this contribution) It rather proves my point in that now instead of each local authority issuing its own card we will h...
Lord Gould of Brookwood | 675 c1003 (Link to this contribution) I am afraid the noble Earl is out of date. If he thinks that is happening and that kids in London ar...
Earl of Erroll | 675 c1002-3 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord is slightly out of date. Most local authorities are now issuing proof of age cards. T...
Lord Maxton | 675 c1002 (Link to this contribution) Large numbers of youngsters at present do not carry a photo ID.
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 675 c1002 (Link to this contribution) Would the noble Lord suggest that a publican should have the equipment to scan the iris of an undera...
Lord Maxton | 675 c1002 (Link to this contribution) Between 16 and 18 it would have the reverse effect, because it would stop those people being able to...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 675 c1002 (Link to this contribution) The card is available at 16, so that would not help, would it?
Lord Maxton | 675 c1002 (Link to this contribution) I did not intend to speak in this debate, but I found the interpretation of devolution as expressed ...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 675 c999 (Link to this contribution) Whatever my noble friend says sounds gentle on the ears to me. I welcome his contributions. I agree...
Baroness Seccombe | 675 c999-1002 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 3:"Page 1, line 4, leave out ““National””" The noble Baroness said: In moving A...
Lord Skelmersdale | 675 c1004 (Link to this contribution) I understand exactly what my noble friend on the Front Bench is getting at in seeking to remove the ...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 675 c1004 (Link to this contribution) Of course, I notice these things. I am always looking for intrusions into the sovereignty of this na...
Lord Selsdon | 675 c1004-5 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend’s amendment intrigues me because it takes me back to nationality Acts. The business ...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 675 c1004 (Link to this contribution) But for the nimbleness of the noble Lord, Lord Maxton, I had hoped to ask the noble Baroness, Lady S...
Baroness Carnegy of Lour | 675 c1003-4 (Link to this contribution) I support the noble Lord, Lord Maxton. The debate in the Scots Parliament was initiated by the Green...
Baroness Seccombe | 675 c1004 (Link to this contribution) That is an interesting point on which we shall need to reflect.
Earl of Onslow | 675 c1003 (Link to this contribution) Has the noble Lord ever had any difficulty proving his identity? I think it unlikely.
Lord Maxton | 675 c1003 (Link to this contribution) I had the misfortune when I was 18 of looking 25, and now at the age of 69 I am never asked to prove...
Lord Crickhowell | 675 c1003 (Link to this contribution) It happens that I used to be chairman of a public body that called itself the National Rivers Author...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 675 c1028 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move that the House be resumed. In moving this Motion, I suggest that the Committee begin a...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 675 c1027 (Link to this contribution) I hope that we never have another Great War in which we lose 50,000 men in one day, which was the po...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 675 c1027-8 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Bassam, for clinging to his native heath just as I cling to mi...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 675 c1024-6 (Link to this contribution) Banks and credit agencies certainly like proof of identity—in fact they very much depend on them. I ...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 675 c1026 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord for giving way. I do not disagree with what he has said, which is pe...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 675 c1026 (Link to this contribution) I do not see it in quite the terms described by the noble Lord. Yes, there will be access, but only ...
Lord Neill of Bladen | 675 c1026 (Link to this contribution) Does the noble Lord really believe that the information will be kept secure? We live in a world of l...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 675 c1026 (Link to this contribution) I do not agree with the noble Lord that it will be leaked. The leak he has just described was really...
Earl of Erroll | 675 c1026-7 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps an example that is more in line with what we are discussing here is that of Operation Glade,...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 675 c1027 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Earl for making the point. In summary, perhaps to deal with the previous...
Earl of Onslow | 675 c1024 (Link to this contribution) Is the noble Lord really saying that he will be more confident in his skin if he has an identity car...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 675 c1023-4 (Link to this contribution) In the sense of a loyalty card, no, there is not. But I think that people will see benefits in a nat...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 675 c1023 (Link to this contribution) Does the noble Lord not agree that with these loyalty cards there is a reward at the end? You get po...
Lord Maxton | 675 c1023 (Link to this contribution) Of course the information is voluntary. However, if you want a mortgage to buy a house or if you wan...
Lord Lyell of Markyate | 675 c1023 (Link to this contribution) Is that information given voluntarily or compulsorily?
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 675 c1024 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord just said that they would be able to use their national identity cards for opening ba...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 675 c1024 (Link to this contribution) I accept what the noble Baroness, Lady Corston, said last time. It is true. But that could be dealt ...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 675 c1024 (Link to this contribution) It is perhaps unfortunate that the noble Earl did not listen to the Second Reading debate and the sp...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 675 c1019 (Link to this contribution) Does the noble Baroness not accept that this amendment goes to the root of the Bill? It asks whether...
Baroness Henig | 675 c1019 (Link to this contribution) We have now been debating this amendment for 40 minutes. At the beginning of our debates this aftern...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 675 c1020 (Link to this contribution) I made the specific point—at the very least, it is the view of most noble Lords on this side of the ...
Baroness Henig | 675 c1019-20 (Link to this contribution) I am not arguing with the points made, but noble Lords could make them in a focused and brief way, a...
Lord Lyell of Markyate | 675 c1018-9 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Baroness, but let me analyse her answer to me about half an hour ago. I a...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 675 c1021-3 (Link to this contribution) I certainly agree that this has been a forthright and robust debate. In my own way I have greatly en...
Baroness Park of Monmouth | 675 c1020 (Link to this contribution) With respect to the noble Baroness, it is constructive for us to discuss whether there is danger in ...
Baroness Henig | 675 c1020 (Link to this contribution) I do understand the process. I am just looking forward to the noble Lord’s constructive suggestions....
Baroness Seccombe | 675 c1021 (Link to this contribution) I could say lots but I will confine my contribution to a few remarks. The amendment so ably and forc...
Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville | 675 c1020-1 (Link to this contribution) I share the implicit views of my noble friend Lady Park that the Bill would be better called the ““N...
Lord Barnett | 675 c962 (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness said that she did not propose to go into the question of costs at this stage. How...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 675 c959-62 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, has done me a great favour in referring to the manifesto. On these Ben...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 675 c959 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Baroness for giving way and for the constructive way in which she is appr...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 675 c958-9 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 1:"Page 1, line 3, after ““State”” insert ““to review annually—" (a)   whether...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 675 c958 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I beg to move that the House do now resolve itself into Committee on this Bill. Moved acc...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 675 c962 (Link to this contribution) I hope that I may assist the noble Lord immediately. I made it clear that these are probing amendmen...
Lord Barnett | 675 c962 (Link to this contribution) I appreciate that and I appreciate why the noble Baroness said it. However, under the terms of her a...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 675 c966 (Link to this contribution) Yes, and I hope to participate in the debate on that amendment. As my noble friend Lord Maxton aske...
Baroness Carnegy of Lour | 675 c966 (Link to this contribution) Has the noble Lord had the chance to read Amendment No. 21, which covers precisely that point?
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 675 c967 (Link to this contribution) This is the first of 279 amendments on the Marshalled List and many more to come—
Earl of Erroll | 675 c966-7 (Link to this contribution) As this is not a Second Reading debate, I shall return to the substance of the amendment. The propos...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 675 c965 (Link to this contribution) I again congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady Anelay, on the constructive way in which she introduce...
Lord Crickhowell | 675 c962-4 (Link to this contribution) I put my name to this amendment and I want to follow the helpful remarks that have just been made on...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 675 c967-8 (Link to this contribution) That is indeed what I intend to do. I assure the noble Baroness, Lady Scotland, that although, as sh...
Lord Selsdon | 675 c968-70 (Link to this contribution) I have a feeling that the title of the Bill is wrong. It should not be called the Identity Cards Bil...
Lord Waddington | 675 c971 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, perhaps rather rashly started his remarks by saying that this is a hug...
Lord Crickhowell | 675 c971 (Link to this contribution) How will the legislation in force at the moment—not limited, as some would wish by further amendment...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 675 c970-1 (Link to this contribution) I want to intervene only briefly to bring to the debate a little balance on the issue of costs, a ma...
Lord Waddington | 675 c971-2 (Link to this contribution) I do not think we can have interruptions. I had the Floor and I was interrupted by the noble Lord, L...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 675 c971 (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, sits down, what polling data is he talking about? Some of the M...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 675 c971 (Link to this contribution) I find it astonishing—and perhaps my noble friend Lord Gould will explain this—that the identity car...
Lord Gould of Brookwood | 675 c972 (Link to this contribution) No polling of any kind has been conducted which has shown that a majority of people do not favour id...
Lord Waddington | 675 c972 (Link to this contribution) Without wishing to sound discourteous, I have to say to the noble Lord that I do not believe a word ...
Earl of Northesk | 675 c972 (Link to this contribution) It may help my noble friend if I alert him to the fact that Home Office research, dating from 2003, ...
Lord Waddington | 675 c972-3 (Link to this contribution) I acquit myself of all blame in this matter because I was interrupted in my very first remarks when ...
Lord Marsh | 675 c972 (Link to this contribution) I am totally puzzled. I thought we were discussing page 1 of the Marshalled List and the first amend...
Lord Waddington | 675 c973 (Link to this contribution) I am no expert on this, but I think they are talking about a thousand million.
Lord Tordoff | 675 c973 (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Lord sits down, may I ask him, and perhaps others, to define what they mean by a ““...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 675 c973 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I can help on this issue. The figure that we have always used is £584 million.
Baroness Henig | 675 c975 (Link to this contribution) I make a brief intervention to surprise the noble Lord opposite. Some research was done under the au...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 675 c975 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am obliged to the noble Baroness, and I shall listen to her throughout the debates on th...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 675 c975 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I hate to interrupt the noble Lord in full flow, but he has touched on an absolutely vital...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 675 c974-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we must not get mixed up between the set-up costs and the running costs. The running costs...
Earl of Onslow | 675 c974 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, have we not just been told by the Minister that the cost will be something like £500 milli...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 675 c977 (Link to this contribution) Has the noble Lord read some of the papers produced by the Home Office in relation to this? If he re...
Baroness Henig | 675 c976 (Link to this contribution) The individuals themselves came forward with how they would want the card to be used. The biggest be...
Lord Lucas | 675 c976 (Link to this contribution) If that has been done, I would be delighted if the noble Baroness could track it down and get it put...
Lord Waddington | 675 c975 (Link to this contribution) Does the noble Baroness realise that if the LSE figures for the cost are anything like right, the co...
Lord Lucas | 675 c975-6 (Link to this contribution) What interests me about the noble Baroness’s intervention is what benefits these people were told wo...
Baroness Kennedy of the Shaws | 675 c977-9 (Link to this contribution) As soon as we enter into real discussion, it becomes clear that if your justification for the Bill i...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 675 c977 (Link to this contribution) Can the noble Baroness tell us where in the Bill it says that we are required to produce the card?
Lord Lyell of Markyate | 675 c979-80 (Link to this contribution) This is a probing amendment and, in my view, it is extremely helpful. At this early stage, the sugge...
Baroness Kennedy of the Shaws | 675 c979 (Link to this contribution) No, we have not in any way done so. At the moment, we have a moratorium that does not allow insurers...
Baroness Kennedy of the Shaws | 675 c977 (Link to this contribution) Members of the Committee know that I am not in favour of identity cards because I have made that ver...
Lord Lucas | 675 c977 (Link to this contribution) I am in favour of identity cards and I know what benefits I would like them to have. However, I am v...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 675 c980 (Link to this contribution) The Minister has just said that there are no powers in the Bill to change what is in Schedule 1. How...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 675 c980-1 (Link to this contribution) Members of the Committee will know that Clause 1(5) sets out the parameters of matters that can subs...
Lord Lucas | 675 c981 (Link to this contribution) Reading the Bill as it is, it is clear that identity comes under Clause 1(5) and identity is physica...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 675 c981-2 (Link to this contribution) It is clear that the biometric identifiers that will be used, as I said at Second Reading, are the f...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 675 c981 (Link to this contribution) Does the Minister expect that if a DNA sample were taken from someone, after the Bill comes into for...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 675 c981 (Link to this contribution) I have been absolutely clear about this. If Members look at the way in which these matters are clari...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 675 c983 (Link to this contribution) I gave those costs at Second Reading but I am very happy to reiterate the comments that I made then ...
Lord Barnett | 675 c983 (Link to this contribution) The Minister is apparently going off the question of costs. I well understand the point she makes ab...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 675 c982-3 (Link to this contribution) The whole purpose of the Gateway process is that if issues are identified as needing to be dealt wit...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 675 c984 (Link to this contribution) Is the Minister saying that she cannot give the House the establishment costs—the capital costs—on g...
Lord Crickhowell | 675 c983-4 (Link to this contribution) I have in front of me the remarks the Minister made at Second Reading. She has said again that the e...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 675 c984 (Link to this contribution) First, I have already sought to deal with the issue of developmental costs and commercial confidenti...
Lord Waddington | 675 c984 (Link to this contribution) I appreciate that when the noble Baroness talks about £580 million she is talking about the running ...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 675 c984 (Link to this contribution) While we are tendering, we cannot do that. One of the purposes of bringing these provisions before P...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 675 c984-5 (Link to this contribution) As Members of the Committee will know, the Passport Agency will now be dealing with the biometric da...
Countess of Mar | 675 c984 (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness has said that the biometric passport will be issued next year. An identity card w...
Earl of Onslow | 675 c985 (Link to this contribution) Can we go back to a question that I find difficult to get my mind around? The noble Baroness says th...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 675 c985 (Link to this contribution) And perhaps police cars, as my noble friend says. Do I understand that no estimate has been made of ...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 675 c985-6 (Link to this contribution) As I have now said repeatedly, we have given the estimate of the annual cost. Those estimates includ...
Lord Waddington | 675 c986 (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness has not answered my question, because there were other interventions. Surely, bef...
Lord Lyell of Markyate | 675 c990 (Link to this contribution) Would the noble Baroness be kind enough to answer my question, which was a point also raised by the ...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 675 c990 (Link to this contribution) The scheme will help because we will be able to verify the identity of those not currently on the co...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 675 c988-90 (Link to this contribution) I understand the import of what the noble Baroness asks. Of course we have figures on how much it co...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 675 c990-1 (Link to this contribution) At the end of two hours of debate, I am sure of only three things in this world. First, this has bee...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 675 c991-2 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 2:"Page 1, line 3, leave out ““and maintain””" The noble Baroness said: In movi...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 675 c990 (Link to this contribution) I too should like to raise a point with the noble Baroness before she finishes her remarks. One of h...
Baroness Carnegy of Lour | 675 c994 (Link to this contribution) Does the noble Baroness think that because this will eventually be a compulsory scheme, it will be v...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 675 c992 (Link to this contribution) I support the tenor of these amendments. They are extremely helpful in focusing the mind of the Comm...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 675 c992-4 (Link to this contribution) I hope we have always made clear that the scheme will be delivered by a new agency, which will incor...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 675 c986 (Link to this contribution) I have sought to answer that question. I have told the Committee that the figures for other departme...
Lord Crickhowell | 675 c986 (Link to this contribution) I sympathise with the Minister’s position, but she sits on that Bench answering not just for the Hom...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 675 c986-7 (Link to this contribution) First, I say to the noble Lord, Lord Crickhowell, that I absolutely understand that when I answer fr...
Earl of Onslow | 675 c987 (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness has persistently refused to indicate the costs. She has just outlined the benefit...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 675 c987 (Link to this contribution) Obviously, I am being rather obtuse today and lack the clarity that I had hitherto thought I could b...
Lord Lucas | 675 c987-8 (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness is comparing the total benefits of owning a car with the cost of the petrol. You ...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 675 c988 (Link to this contribution) I rise to my feet because it is Committee stage, this is a self-regulating House and it is normal, i...
Baroness Kennedy of the Shaws | 675 c988 (Link to this contribution) At some stage, would the noble Baroness be able to give the basis on which one reaches a figure on, ...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 675 c998-9 (Link to this contribution) I believe that it is the case. There is no need for any person who does not wish to put his name on ...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 675 c999 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for her full response. I am not sure that she has answered my question...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 675 c997-8 (Link to this contribution) I agree. This is Committee, which is why I thought we would get an agreement on how we would deal wi...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 675 c998 (Link to this contribution) That means that if a person voluntarily puts his name on the register it will remain there permanent...
Lord Peyton of Yeovil | 675 c997 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may say something on this point. I was rather puzzled when so many noble Lords got to thei...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 675 c997 (Link to this contribution) When I rose to my feet, I asked whether the Minister was going to answer each point as it is made. W...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 675 c997 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful. In response to that suggestion—and I think it was a suggestion—it is often the c...
Lord Peyton of Yeovil | 675 c999 (Link to this contribution) I beg my noble friend’s pardon. If I say ““gentle”” rather than ““flabby””, the meaning would not be...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 675 c995 (Link to this contribution) I absolutely understand the concern that has been expressed, but we have to consider the practicalit...
Lord Peyton of Yeovil | 675 c995 (Link to this contribution) The Minister’s remarks have worried me. She uses too often the words ““integrity”” and ““clarity””, ...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 675 c995 (Link to this contribution) I wonder whether the Minister wants to answer each point as it is made, or whether we are going to h...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 675 c995-6 (Link to this contribution) Postponing these issues will not assist. I say that for the reasons I have already partly outlined. ...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 675 c994 (Link to this contribution) We have considered it. The issue of compulsion has been part of the debates we have had on passports...
Baroness Carnegy of Lour | 675 c994 (Link to this contribution) The Minister is having a very trying time, but that is not my point. My point is that this is clearl...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 675 c994-5 (Link to this contribution) I understand the purport of the noble Baroness’s comments, but we conversely believe that it should ...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 675 c995 (Link to this contribution) I found much of what the Minister said persuasive, but I should like to explore a little further wha...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 675 c996 (Link to this contribution) This Bill is becoming a little confusing, at least for me, and perhaps for the general public as wel...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 675 c996-7 (Link to this contribution) I shall try to answer as best I can. I just want to make clear the procedure we have been adopting. ...
Lord Gould of Brookwood | 675 c1012 (Link to this contribution) Both the previous speakers—the latter with great emotion—were arguing for freedom. We have to ask wh...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 675 c1004 (Link to this contribution) The amendment before us is interesting and was well moved by the noble Baroness, Lady Seccombe. But ...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 675 c1023 (Link to this contribution) Of course it is given voluntarily. The noble and learned Lord made that point, as have other Members...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 675 c1024 (Link to this contribution) In part that is a fair point. It is also envisaged that individuals will be able to use their identi...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 675 c985 (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Baroness answers that, I must say that I had not appreciated that the capital costs...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 675 c1027 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may correct the noble Lord on that point. What he should appreciate is that Brighton is Lo...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 675 c965-6 (Link to this contribution) I do not disagree with that, and shall come to it in a moment. What worried me is that there was al...
Lord Waddington | 675 c972 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my noble friend for making that point but I should proceed with my own speech.
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 675 c973-4 (Link to this contribution) This seems a very reasonable amendment and I should not have thought that the Minister would have an...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 675 c980 (Link to this contribution) We have had a very interesting debate lasting one hour and 20 minutes. I shall turn my attention pri...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 675 c990 (Link to this contribution) I would not use the word ““severe””. I hope that the words, ““the most effective, dynamic and succes...
Lord Waddington | 675 c965 (Link to this contribution) Surely the noble Lord agrees that the degree of popularity of the proposal will depend on the cost. ...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 675 c971 (Link to this contribution) I do not rest my case on it but the very identification of the individual through a national registr...
Earl of Northesk | 675 c982 (Link to this contribution) I hope that the noble Baroness can clarify a point on the Gateway process. Is it not the case that a...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 675 c986 (Link to this contribution) Can the noble Baroness at least tell us from a Home Office perspective exactly the cost to equip one...

Subjects

Access
Data protection
Biometrics
Costs
Fingerprints
ICT
Immigration controls
Identity cards
Interviews
EU nationals
Privacy
National identity register
Proof of identity
Passports
Registration
Security

Legislation

Identity Cards Bill 2005-06

Link

View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk
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