Identity Cards Bill

I acquit myself of all blame in this matter because I was interrupted in my very first remarks when I was beginning to lay the foundations of the argument I am now about to deploy. If it is going to cost anything like £200 or £300, a question will arise as to whether the cost is proportional to the benefits that the system will bring. That is what we are considering in the amendment we are discussing. All kinds of figures have been bandied about. The Government have said that the cost to the Home Office will be £5.8 billion. A study put forward by some IT consultants, who said it would cost £15 billion, was pooh-poohed by the Government. Then along came the people from the LSE, who now say that it would cost up to £30 billion. Those kinds of figures do not live in the same world as the figures put forward by the Government. The explanation for that may lie in the fact that the Government are talking about something entirely different from what the people at the LSE are talking about. I should like to put some very straightforward questions to the Government. When they put forward a figure of £5.8 billion, are they talking purely about the launching costs for the Home Office? Are they excluding all the other costs involved for the scheme to have any use at all? Those other costs will clearly involve adapting the computer systems in other government departments so that they may have access to the Home Office computer and to the information on the register. What will be the cost of adapting all those computer systems so that others may use the information kept on the National Identity Register? Am I right in saying that those costs are not included in the figure of £5.8 billion put forward by the Government? If I am, what is the total figure? Nobody has begun to answer, on behalf of the Government, these crucial questions, and I hope that if the Minister cannot answer us today she will give a firm undertaking to give a detailed statement of these costs as soon as possible and before we proceed very much further with the Bill. I agree entirely with the noble Lord, Lord Barnett, that it is very difficult to debate any of these matters when the costs may be so astronomical as not to equate with any benefits that will accrue from the scheme.