Identity Cards Bill

I am not arguing with the points made, but noble Lords could make them in a focused and brief way, as I hope to do now. Noble Lords are going on for an inordinate length of time, making points that could be made more briefly. If we spin out arguments as some noble Lords are doing we will be here not just for five days but for 10 or more. Maybe that is the intention; I do not know. I raise that point because some noble Lords seem to be saying very few things in a very lengthy way. I listened with great interest to the historical lecture by the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, because he started with the First World War, a period with which I am very familiar, and conscription. It was over the conscription debates that the Liberal Party split very badly, some in favour of coercion and others against. It could be suggested that the party took a long time to recover from that. I feel that the noble Lord, Lord Thomas, and others are focusing on negatives. There is no room here for any positives. The public are not ignorant and it is not the case that if only they knew this, that or the other, they would realise this or that. They understand the issues. Like the noble Lord, Lord Stoddart, I have spoken to many people, and they have a clear idea of the uses to which the legislation could be put. An example that has not been mentioned today but which many cite is that the legislation would be extremely useful in the area of employment, particularly work with children, because it would provide a much better way of checking whether people are who they say they are. There are other issues like that where individuals can see an obvious function for the legislation. We should not be so negative. I understand the point of the noble Lord, Lord Phillips, about an authoritarian government. However, authoritarian governments will find all sorts of ways of doing what they want to do. I cannot shape all the legislation of this year, next year or last year with the thought that some time in the future there will be an authoritarian government. It is not particularly helpful to accentuate the negative aspects all the time when looking at this legislation.