Identity Cards Bill

I support the amendment because it really says what this is all about—surveillance. It is about not identity cards or registers, but the surveillance of the individual by the Executive. The noble Lord, Lord Maxton, says that the world has changed. In many respects it has, but the concepts of democracy and individual liberty have not changed, I hope. They still exist. Individual freedom means that there is no state surveillance surveying everything that you do and having all sorts of information about you, some of which you may not know about. That is what the argument is all about. I really am so surprised that one by one Labour Members of this House have risen to support a proposition which is so anti-Labour. I know for certain that if the Labour Party had been in opposition and the Tories or even the Liberal Democrats had been in government, there would have been hell to pay about this Bill. There would not just have been debates in Parliament but marches up and down the country against this concept. I am so disappointed that, as I say, one Member after another has risen from the Labour Benches to support what is nearly fascist legislation. Hitler in 1933 did exactly the same. As soon as he came to power he introduced a national register which enabled him to define who were Jews and who were non-Jews, and we know what that gave rise to. As the noble Lord said, these are decent people. They do not want to use the information in an inappropriate or dangerous way, but they will not always be there—I know that Mr Blair thinks that he will always be there or the Labour Party will always be there. But it does not happen that way. There might well be circumstances in this country where the information, which is centrally registered, could be used for baleful purposes. That is the great argument against having this central register and eventually a compulsory identity card. The noble Lord, Lord Gould, who is an expert in this, referred to opinion ““out there””. He says that people want more surveillance—that is what it is—and that they are all in favour of compulsory identity cards eventually. I have to say that I meet a fair number of people and nobody has come up to me and said, ““Lord Stoddart, will you please get me an identity card because I want one? I want to be compelled to carry one””. I have had a great many letters saying, ““For God’s sake, Stoddart, vote against this legislation because it is so dangerous to our democracy and freedoms””. Where does this opinion poll come from? Is it from four people? I understand that, often, legislation is based on the view of a few people. Or is it scientific? We simply do not know. In any event, if we are to be governed by opinion poll, let us take a lot more of them. Let us, in these dire times when so many horrific murders are taking place, take an opinion poll on whether we should restore capital punishment. I can tell the noble Lord the result straightaway. People would say, ““Yes, bring it back. Why should we keep spending hundreds of thousands of pounds on keeping these monsters in prison?””. So let us not go down the road of relying on opinion polls.