Identity Cards Bill

What a pleasure it is, for the second time in my experience, to be able to agree with the noble Lord, Lord Stoddart. I presume that by removing from the Bill all references to the word ““national””, the noble Baroness, Lady Seccombe, wished merely to probe whether this was truly a national scheme, given that identity cards could be utilised in different parts of the country. I agree with the comments made and I am quite confident that the noble Baroness was not suggesting that we separate Scotland off or that the Scottish nationalists have it right and that there should be a Scottish passport. I wholeheartedly endorse the comments made by my noble friend Lord Maxton on this matter, ably supported by the noble Baroness, Lady Carnegy of Lour, who can always be relied upon to know all things Scottish. The issue of identity cards is, of course, a reserved matter, as my noble friend and the noble Baroness, Lady Carnegy, made clear. Therefore, it will be a matter for the United Kingdom Government to decide that identity cards, just like passports, should be issued throughout the United Kingdom, including Scotland. The Scottish Executive has responsibility for devolved services, and access to state benefits or other reserved services are matters for the United Kingdom Government, so it will be for the UK Government to decide whether an ID card can be issued or needs to be provided for. I understand that the noble Baroness, Lady Carnegy of Lour, was correct—I do not have the actual decision—in saying that health, unlike immigration and identity cards, is a devolved matter. Entitlement to access a service will depend on the rules in the individual jurisdiction. That is a consequence of the devolution settlement and not of this Bill. The noble Baroness is right to say that the Scottish Parliament is entitled to say that. That does not mean that we seek in any way to change the arrangement that was made on devolution. These issues will have to be dealt with. Visitors will not be entitled to register; only residents in the United Kingdom will be eligible to register and only if they have been resident for the prescribed period, which will probably be about three months. These are issues for discussion under Clause 2. The importance of making this a national identity card system is plain. I agree with comments made by my noble friend Lady Henig and the noble Lord, Lord Stoddart. It is important to deal with that. The noble Lord, Lord Crickhowell, asked whether the system will cause difficulty and, if so, how. I hope I have dealt with that point. We do not believe that it will cause difficulty. He also asked whether there will be suitably equipped places where such data can be taken in Scotland. Certainly, there should be. We want a fair distribution of such places throughout the country so that they are easily accessible for citizens in the various parts of the country to give such data. I do not know whether many noble Lords took advantage of the opportunity to see, in Committee Room 4, how easily and quickly that can be done. I took that opportunity and I was surprised that it took only a matter of seconds to do the iris, only a matter of seconds to do the fingerprints, and the facial recognition was very quick too. We hope that such facilities will be available for those who will need them. The legislation will apply throughout the United Kingdom because it relates to issues that are within the competence of the Westminster Parliament.