UK Parliament / Open data

Commissioner for Older People (Wales) Bill [HL]

Debate on bills and Committee proceeding on Wednesday, 26 October 2005, in the House of Lords.
Commissioner for Older People (Wales) Bill (HL). Lords Committee stage second day. Grand Committee off the floor of the House (Moses room). Clauses 3, 10-13, 16, 18, 19 and 23 agreed to. Clauses 4-9, 14, 15, 17, 20-22 agreed to as amended. Schedule 2 agreed to as amended. New clauses and new schedules considered.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

674 c323-78GC 

Session

2005-06

Department

Wales Office
Committee of the Whole House (HL)

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Procedure

New clauses
New schedules

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords Grand Committee

Related items

Commissioner for Older People (Wales) Bill (HL). Explanatory Notes HL Bill 6-EN also published.
Wednesday, 25 May 2005
Bills
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c376GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 117 to 118:"Page 11, line 9, leave out ““subsection (2)”” and insert ““subsect...
Lord Prys-Davies | 674 c328GC (Link to this contribution) The Government of Wales Act 1998 in no way affects the power of Parliament to legislate as it sees f...

Show all contributions (140)
Lord Roberts of Llandudno | 674 c329-30GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 41:"Page 2, line 35, at end insert ““or in a field which is related to Wales,””"...
Lord Rowlands | 674 c363GC (Link to this contribution) I am not aware of that practice. If that is the case, the Minister can tell us about that. I am only...
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 674 c363GC (Link to this contribution) I know that the noble Lord will not mind me intervening. Is it not the case that the Children’s Comm...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 674 c359GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment No. 94 is grouped with Amendment No. 93. I apologise most sincerely to the Committee for a...
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 674 c359GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 93:"Page 7, line 38, leave out subsection (1)." The noble Lord said: The amendm...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c341GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 59:"Page 4, line 27, at end insert ““; and" (ii)   would, if provided by the p...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 674 c347GC (Link to this contribution) We agree with the amendment. Prescription of the conditions is important to clarify when the assista...
Lord Prys-Davies | 674 c348-9GC (Link to this contribution) had given notice of his intention to move Amendment No. 78:"Page 6, line 8, at end insert—" ““(   ...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c347-8GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 71:"Page 5, line 29, at end insert—" ““(   )   in making a complaint or repres...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c348GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 72:"Page 5, line 30, leave out ““a person mentioned in Schedule 3 or””" On Ques...
Lord Prys-Davies | 674 c355GC (Link to this contribution) had given notice of his intention to move Amendment No. 87:"Page 7, line 29, at end insert ““and the...
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 674 c327-8GC (Link to this contribution) I shall be brief. I welcome Amendment No. 36 and the addition of the National Leadership and Innovat...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c329GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps, very quickly, I may answer a point that was raised concerning the air ambulance service and...
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 674 c323GC (Link to this contribution) Would the noble Lord comment on the second leg of the amendment? It asks that,"““The Assembly or ano...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c323GC (Link to this contribution) Before we begin, I draw the attention of the Committee to a report in a Welsh newspaper that appeare...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c324-5GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 36:"Page 17, line 24, at end insert—" ““National Leadership and Innovations Ag...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c324GC (Link to this contribution) It is the Government’s view, one shared by the Welsh Assembly, that if we follow exactly the legisla...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c323-4GC (Link to this contribution) The Government share the view of the Assembly that it is not appropriate to place a requirement on t...
Lord Prys-Davies | 674 c324GC (Link to this contribution) I strongly support the principle behind the amendment and merely want to add that unless there is a ...
Lord Roberts of Llandudno | 674 c357-8GC (Link to this contribution) I am again grateful to the Minister, but if the old person is then found battered—as has happened—or...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c357GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may clarify this matter. Giving the commissioner power to enter an individual’s private ho...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c358GC (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to turn this into a discussion, but in the circumstances that the noble Lord has outlined...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c365GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 98 and 99:"Page 8, line 18, at end insert—" ““(   )   provide that the Commi...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c366-8GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 102:"After Clause 14, insert the following new clause—"    ““POWER TO DISCLOSE...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c365-6GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 100 and 101:"After Clause 14, insert the following new clause—"    ““WORKING...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c368-9GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 103:"After Clause 14, insert the following new clause—"    ““PROTECTION AGAINS...
Lord Rowlands | 674 c332GC (Link to this contribution) I apologise for interrupting the noble Lord. I sit on the Constitution Committee. At its last meetin...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c332-4GC (Link to this contribution) The common thread running through the amendments is that they appear to be aimed at broadening the t...
Lord Roberts of Llandudno | 674 c330-1GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 42:"Page 2, line 40, leave out paragraph (d)." The noble Lord said: I shall sta...
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 674 c334-5GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 46:"Page 3, line 18, leave out ““relevant””" The noble Lord said: This is a pro...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c339GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 52:"Page 4, line 2, leave out ““(c)”” and insert ““(d)””" On Question, amendmen...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c339GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 50:"Page 3, line 44, at end insert—" ““(   )   the dignity of a person has bee...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c339-40GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 54:"Page 4, line 7, leave out ““services are provided in Wales”” and insert ““re...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 674 c340GC (Link to this contribution) There is no doubt that there are problems outside Wales when no services exist within Wales. I under...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 674 c337GC (Link to this contribution) I support wholeheartedly the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Prys-Davies. We feel that it is corre...
Lord Prys-Davies | 674 c336-7GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 48:"Page 3, line 22, at end insert—" ““(   )   the implementation of the guida...
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 674 c336GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord for his comments on my amendment. He has certainly clarified the sit...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c338-9GC (Link to this contribution) Before responding to Amendments Nos. 49 and 51, I shall speak first to government Amendments Nos. 50...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c348GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 76 to 77:"Page 6, line 7, at beginning insert ““In subsections (1)(c) and (3)(...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c345-6GC (Link to this contribution) This group of amendments concerns bringing within the commissioner’s remit an older person who has m...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c343-4GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 68:"Page 5, line 13, leave out ““may”” and insert ““must””" On Question, amendm...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 674 c350GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Prys-Davies, gave a superb exposition on how to simplify the process of the law...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c350-1GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment No. 80, which stands in the name of my noble friend Lord Prys-Davies, would extend the Ass...
Lord Prys-Davies | 674 c349GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 80:"Page 6, line 12, at end insert ““and of policies which discriminate directly...
Lord Lyell | 674 c351GC (Link to this contribution) I advise the Committee that if this amendment is agreed to, I shall not be able to call Amendment No...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 674 c352GC (Link to this contribution) We have travelled over ground over which we travelled earlier about non-devolved matters, so I beg l...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c370GC (Link to this contribution) We will consider what my noble friend has said, but our view at the moment is that such a suggestion...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c370GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 107:"Before Clause 16, insert the following new clause—"    ““MINOR AND CONSEQ...
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 674 c373GC (Link to this contribution) I understand all the arguments in support of selecting the age of 60 as the qualifying age. It is, a...
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 674 c373-4GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 109:"Page 9, line 9, at end insert—" ““(   )   who is ordinarily resident in W...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c374-5GC (Link to this contribution) In speaking to Amendment No. 109, I shall speak also to government Amendment No. 111, which has aris...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c375GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 113:"Page 9, line 32, at end insert—" ““““enactment”” includes an enactment co...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c375GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 115:"Page 10, line 22, after second ““services”” insert ““provided in Wales whic...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c376-8GC (Link to this contribution) I thank everybody for the way in which the Committee has been conducted. It has been very positive a...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c328-9GC (Link to this contribution) The central statement in the remarks of the noble Lord, Lord Livsey, about the governance of Wales B...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 674 c325-7GC (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to speak to Amendments Nos. 37, 39, 40, 61 and 63. Also, in the unavoidable absence...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c330GC (Link to this contribution) Amendments Nos. 41 and 64, which stand in the names of the noble Lords, Lord Livsey of Talgarth and ...
Lord Roberts of Llandudno | 674 c330GC (Link to this contribution) I would like the Minister to consider the matter again before Report and to recognise the interdepen...
Lord Roberts of Llandudno | 674 c323GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 34:"Page 2, line 10, at end insert—" ““(   )   The results of the Commissioner...
Lord Roberts of Llandudno | 674 c324GC (Link to this contribution) We are grateful to the Minister for that assurance—we look forward to the regulation being incorpora...
Lord Rowlands | 674 c362-3GC (Link to this contribution) I shall offer briefly a contrary view to the one expressed by the noble Lord, Lord Roberts, on the c...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 674 c362GC (Link to this contribution) I rise to speak to Amendment No. 96 which also concerns non-devolved matters and to comment on Amend...
Lord Prys-Davies | 674 c361GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 95:"Page 8, line 12, at end insert ““and about the publication of such reports””...
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 674 c360-1GC (Link to this contribution) I am sure the Minister will be aware—I am certainly aware—of what is happening in England and the re...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c359-60GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment No. 93 seeks to remove the Assembly’s ability to confer further functions on the commissio...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c358GC (Link to this contribution) I am happy to reassure the noble Lord that, although it is not specifically stated in the Bill, it w...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 674 c358GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 91:"Page 7, line 35, at end insert—" ““(   )   interview the older person in p...
Lord Roberts of Llandudno | 674 c358GC (Link to this contribution) For the moment, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. [Amendment ...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c370GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my noble friend for that intervention. The Assembly will be able to make suggestion...
Lord Rowlands | 674 c369-70GC (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister consider going a little further than the new clause goes? This procedure relates t...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c363-4GC (Link to this contribution) I shall speak first to government Amendment No. 98. The intention of the Government’s amendment to C...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c369GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 104:"After Clause 14, insert the following new clause—"    ““COMPLAINTS PROCED...
Lord Roberts of Llandudno | 674 c334GC (Link to this contribution) We appreciate the Minister’s position. There is still a question about the regulations regarding a n...
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 674 c331-2GC (Link to this contribution) I shall speak to Amendment No. 66, which stands in my name and that of my noble friend Lord Luke. Th...
Lord Rowlands | 674 c331GC (Link to this contribution) I do not believe that the noble Lord, Lord Roberts, is quite right in saying that Clause 4(2)(d) is ...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c340GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 56 and 57:"Page 4, line 13, after ““services”” insert ““in Wales””""Page 4, li...
Lord Prys-Davies | 674 c341GC (Link to this contribution) had given notice of his intention to move Amendment No. 60:"After Clause 6, insert the following new...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c337GC (Link to this contribution) My noble friend Lord Prys-Davies raised some interesting points last week and has made more interest...
Lord Roberts of Llandudno | 674 c337-8GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 49:"Page 3, line 44, after ““health”” insert ““, welfare””" The noble Lord said...
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 674 c347GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord for that reply and his reference to the provision in Clause 5. I ten...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c348GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 74 to 75:"Page 5, line 41, leave out paragraph (a) and insert—""““(a)   anythi...
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 674 c348GC (Link to this contribution) We welcome the Government’s attempt to clarify the commissioner’s powers in respect of cross-border ...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 674 c348GC (Link to this contribution) I, too, welcome what the Minister has said, having had quite a bit of experience in cross-border sit...
Baroness Turner of Camden | 674 c341GC (Link to this contribution) My note states that the amendment has been debated.
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c346GC (Link to this contribution) I am advised that that applies if they can still be considered ordinarily resident.
Lord Roberts of Llandudno | 674 c353GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 86:"Page 7, line 25, at end insert ““and the United Kingdom Government””" The n...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c354-5GC (Link to this contribution) I shall respond first to Amendments Nos. 87 and 88 in the name of my noble friend Lord Prys-Davies, ...
Lord Roberts of Llandudno | 674 c355GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his reply but I am still unhappy about the inability of, say, the UK Govern...
Lord Roberts of Llandudno | 674 c355-6GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 89:"Page 7, line 33, leave out ““, other than a private dwelling,””" The noble ...
Lord Rowlands | 674 c357GC (Link to this contribution) As I understand it, my noble friend has been very clear in saying that the commissioner or a person ...
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 674 c349-50GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Prys-Davies, made a very powerful case, in his inimitably concise way—and there...
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 674 c351-2GC (Link to this contribution) I rise to speak to Amendment No. 84, which is in my name and that of my noble friend. I shall, I hop...
Lord Rowlands | 674 c370GC (Link to this contribution) I suggest to my noble friend that, because this is important and because it concerns complaints abou...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c370GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 105:"Page 8, line 36, at end insert ““prescribed””" On Question, amendment agre...
Lord Roberts of Llandudno | 674 c371-2GC (Link to this contribution) What an impossible task it is to find an age which everyone agrees can be described as ““old”” or ““...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c372-3GC (Link to this contribution) The amendment would reduce the age threshold from 60 to 50. It would also hugely increase the potent...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 674 c373GC (Link to this contribution) I should like to declare an interest since I realise that I have not done so in relation to this ame...
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 674 c376GC (Link to this contribution) I think that this may be the appropriate moment to thank the Minister for his ineffable courtesy thr...
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 674 c375GC (Link to this contribution) I am very satisfied with the Minister’s reply regarding our concerns, and I beg leave to withdraw th...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c375GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 114:"Page 10, line 8, after second ““services”” insert ““provided in Wales which...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 674 c329GC (Link to this contribution) I understand the Minister’s position regarding non-devolved bodies, for many of the reasons that the...
Lord Rowlands | 674 c327GC (Link to this contribution) I support my noble friend’s position, as I did at the last sitting of the Committee. It is important...
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 674 c361-2GC (Link to this contribution) I rise to speak to Amendment No. 97 in the group, which is tabled in my name and that of my noble fr...
Lord Prys-Davies | 674 c360GC (Link to this contribution) I support what my noble friend has said. The Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee did no...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 674 c358-9GC (Link to this contribution) I clearly understand the position that the Minister has described, but we need to give this consider...
Lord Roberts of Llandudno | 674 c357GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister. I would be grateful if he could look again at the power of entry to a private ...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c357GC (Link to this contribution) Yes, I can assure my noble friend that the commissioner will have the power to pursue such a complai...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 674 c363GC (Link to this contribution) I hear what the noble Lord, Lord Rowlands, says, and I agree with him, that communications have impr...
Lord Prys-Davies | 674 c364GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the Minister’s reply on Amendment No. 95, particularly as I judge from his remarks...
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 674 c332GC (Link to this contribution) I am sure that the Minister is glad to hear that. Nevertheless, the Bill gave rise to a significant ...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c334GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 44:"Page 3, line 7, leave out ““may”” and insert ““must””" On Question, amendme...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 674 c335GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment No. 53 seeks to insert into the Bill the words,"““or should be provided by virtue of their...
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 674 c340GC (Link to this contribution) We welcome the Government’s attempt to clarify the commissioner’s powers in respect of cross-border ...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c340-1GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 58:"Page 4, line 26, after ““which”” insert—" ““(i)””    The noble Lord said:...
Lord Roberts of Llandudno | 674 c339GC (Link to this contribution) I appreciate the fact that we are clearly going in the same direction and, with that in mind, I beg ...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c335-6GC (Link to this contribution) The term ““relevant older people””—not a very attractive line—is the hook on which we hang our restr...
Lord Prys-Davies | 674 c337GC (Link to this contribution) I am extremely grateful to my noble friend for his sympathetic response and, in anticipation that fu...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c337GC (Link to this contribution) We will review that as well as reflect on the principle behind the amendments tabled by my noble fri...
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 674 c337GC (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Prys-Davies, for moving this amendment and, in doing so, ...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c347GC (Link to this contribution) As we have heard, Amendment No. 70 would make provision for conditions to be imposed on the giving o...
Lord Prys-Davies | 674 c341GC (Link to this contribution) Yes, but in Committee last week Amendment No. 60 was grouped with another amendment or amendments. I...
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 674 c346GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for his explanation. My understanding, subject to a further reading of...
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 674 c346-7GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 70:"Page 5, line 24, at end insert ““, and may prescribe the conditions which ma...
Lord Roberts of Llandudno | 674 c346GC (Link to this contribution) I rise to seek a little further clarification because I remain uncertain about the Minister’s respon...
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 674 c344-5GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 69:"Page 5, line 24, leave out ““or has been an older person in”” and insert ““a...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c341-3GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 62:"After Schedule 3, insert the following new schedule—" ““SCHEDULE MINOR AND ...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c352-3GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 83:"Page 6, line 17, leave out paragraph (b)." On Question, amendment agreed to...
Lord Prys-Davies | 674 c353-4GC (Link to this contribution) I shall speak to Amendments Nos. 87 and 88, which are grouped with Amendment No. 86. I believe that ...
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 674 c356GC (Link to this contribution) I rise to speak to Amendment No. 90, which is in this group. This amendment to Clause 12 addresses a...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c356-7GC (Link to this contribution) I shall deal first with Amendments Nos. 89 and 90, which concern premises that are subject to the co...
Lord Prys-Davies | 674 c351GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lords, Lord Livsey and Lord Roberts, for supporting the amendment. I have...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 674 c351GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 82:"Page 6, line 13, leave out subsection (2)." The noble Lord said: In this am...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c352GC (Link to this contribution) I shall respond to Amendments Nos. 82 and 84 before speaking to government Amendment No. 83. The pow...
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 674 c371GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 108:"Page 9, line 7, leave out ““60”” and insert ““50””" The noble Lord said: W...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 674 c372GC (Link to this contribution) To add to what my noble friend has just said, the noble Lord, Lord Roberts of Conwy, made some cogen...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c375-6GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 116:"Page 11, line 4, at end insert—" ““(2A)   The power to make consequential...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c375GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 111:"Page 9, line 11, leave out ““services are provided in Wales”” and insert ““...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 674 c376GC (Link to this contribution) I add my words to those of the noble Lord, Lord Roberts of Conwy. In addition to all the people he h...

Subjects

Complaints
Disclosure of information
Abuse
Accountability
Annual reports
Equality
Domestic abuse
Functions
Powers of entry
Older people
Monitoring
Wales
Commissioner for Older People in Wales

Legislation

Commissioner for Older People (Wales) Bill (HL) 2005-06

Link

View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk
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