Commissioner for Older People (Wales) Bill [HL]

It is a pleasure to speak to Amendments Nos. 37, 39, 40, 61 and 63. Also, in the unavoidable absence of the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay of Llandaff, I shall speak to Amendment No. 38. Regarding the comments made by the Minister about some of those amendments, in particular, the issue of non-devolved bodies, I wholly accept that we do not wish interminably to debate them. None the less, I shall speak to them in order and make a simple point about each. Amendment No. 37 lists additional bodies that would be subject to review: the air ambulance, ambulance services and trusts and voluntary organisations. We thank the Minister for accepting in his Amendment No. 36 the addition of the National Leadership and Innovations Agency for Healthcare. That was felt by a number of bodies to be important, and we are pleased that that has been accepted. None the less, I think I am right in saying that, although the Minister said that such matters were covered by NHS trusts et cetera, the air ambulance does not come into that category. I may be wrong, but I have not seen an air ambulance flying around Wales with ““NHS trust”” on its side. Voluntary organisations are also important. I am sure that the Assembly, in drawing up regulations, will take account of representations that have been made, but if certain organisations are to be in the Bill, I do not understand why other organisations could not be there too. Amendment No. 38, tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, and supported by others, adds police authorities to the list. I realise that they are non-devolved bodies controlled from Westminster, although police authorities are represented by local authorities throughout Wales and it is the police areas that are controlled by Westminster. But as far as consultation is concerned those authorities are involved in local government. The noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, says that the police are important to older people’s health and welfare. They interact with older people who are victims of crime and witnesses to crime in an important way. The police also have good relations with local health and social services in relation to older people. The noble Baroness feels, as we do, that it is desirable that police authorities be included. Amendment No. 39 would add a number of non-devolved bodies to the list in Schedule 2. We would really like the Pension Service, the Benefits Agency, the civil and criminal courts, HM Revenue and Customs, Jobcentre Plus, the Employment Tribunals Service and any other UK-wide body to be included. Older people have been involved with those bodies, which are important in their lives. We are concerned that the commissioner will not at least be able in those circumstances to write reports in relation to those bodies and their impact on older people. The problem is that we should be debating earlier in this Parliament the governance of Wales Bill, in which the powers to be devolved in the Commissioner for Older People (Wales) Bill would be clear and could be debated in a more logical way than is possible at the moment. It could well be that in six to nine months’ time, when we have a new governance of Wales Act, we might be able to achieve a rather more logical process for the Commissioner for Older People in Wales. I make that point once only, but it is something that we feel strongly about. Amendment No. 40 would provide that the commissioner should undertake an annual review of the list of persons in Schedule 2 and report his findings to the Assembly. That is fairly straightforward. Amendment No. 61 would include,"““A voluntary organisation””," under the ““Education and training”” heading in Schedule 3. We regard that as important in relation to that part of the Bill. Amendment No. 63 would insert into Clause 7—the Minister mentioned it in his opening remarks—a requirement for the commissioner to undertake an annual review of the list of persons in Schedule 3 and to report his findings to the National Assembly for Wales. We have raised a number of issues. Obviously we thought hard before tabling the amendments, and we feel that they will improve the Bill. However, the remarks that I made about non-devolved bodies are relevant in this respect.