UK Parliament / Open data

Electoral Administration Bill

Debate on bills and Committee proceeding on Tuesday, 28 February 2006, in the House of Lords.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

679 c63-120GC 

Session

2005-06

Department

Department for Constitutional Affairs
Committee of the Whole House (HL)

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords Grand Committee

Related items

Electoral Administration Bill. Brought from the Commons. Explanatory Notes HL Bill 58-EN also published.
Thursday, 12 January 2006
Bills
House of Commons

Proceeding contributions

Lord Campbell-Savours | 679 c96GC (Link to this contribution) The unique identifier that would deal with this problem is a national identity card number and that ...
Lord Hanningfield | 679 c85GC (Link to this contribution) I should have spoken to Amendments Nos. 13 and 24, as they are grouped with Amendment No. 12. We are...

Show all contributions (126)
Lord Greaves | 679 c85GC (Link to this contribution) If you cannot find out who has voted or who is purported to have voted in an election, there is no w...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 679 c85-7GC (Link to this contribution) I know what is going on. I shall respond to Amendments Nos. 12, 13 and 24. When I saw what the nobl...
Lord Haskel | 679 c88GC (Link to this contribution) Is it your Lordships’ pleasure that this amendment be withdrawn?
Baroness Hanham | 679 c88GC (Link to this contribution) I am going to withdraw and sit down again. The Committee stage being what it is, I think we are allo...
Lord Haskel | 679 c89GC (Link to this contribution) For clarification, the Clause 4 stand part debate comes after Amendment No. 31. [Amendments Nos. 13...
Lord Hanningfield | 679 c89GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for that answer, which is very helpful. On the overall amendment, between this ...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 679 c112GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord has, as usual, raised an important point. I do not have any examples for him of how w...
Lord Greaves | 679 c118-20GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister may be interested to learn that the Idle Toads are force to be reckoned with in South R...
Lord Greaves | 679 c113-4GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 36:"Page 5, line 26, leave out subsection (10)." The noble Lord said: Clause 5(...
Lord Hanningfield | 679 c101GC (Link to this contribution) On that point, we all know about IT projects that start off with £10 million and which end up with £...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 679 c108GC (Link to this contribution) I can foresee circumstances in which the Electoral Commission might be the body that we would expect...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 679 c84GC (Link to this contribution) I shall seek to reassure the noble Lord, Lord Hanningfield, even more. Clause 6 in Part 1 is headed ...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 679 c73-4GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Baroness for raising that point. The consultation document tries to set o...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 679 c94GC (Link to this contribution) I have one or two questions, because I still seek to be convinced that this national scheme is requi...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 679 c91-2GC (Link to this contribution) One of the great joys of Committee stage is the ability for me to take away all the comments that ha...
Lord Greaves | 679 c92GC (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful and I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. [Ame...
Lord Norton of Louth | 679 c96GC (Link to this contribution) I shall make two points that tie in with various things that have been said. I am prompted by the no...
Lord Greaves | 679 c97-8GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 22:"Page 3, line 28, leave out ““If a CORE scheme makes”” and insert ““A CORE sc...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 679 c98GC (Link to this contribution) Amendments Nos. 22 and 23 uphold a key data protection principle. I need to check their wording with...
Baroness Hanham | 679 c87GC (Link to this contribution) I want to talk about this in relation to Clause 4 stand part, because we are discussing the whole as...
Lord Hanningfield | 679 c85GC (Link to this contribution) Yes, it is just that I had not spoken to Amendments Nos. 13 and 24.
Baroness Hanham | 679 c88GC (Link to this contribution) No, I was only withdrawing what I was saying to the amendments of my noble friend Lord Hanningfield....
Lord Haskel | 679 c87GC (Link to this contribution) There is a Division in the Chamber; there may be a series of Divisions. The Committee stands adjourn...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 679 c110-1GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness is right that we are not ruling any body out. It may well be that a different app...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 679 c112-3GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord for giving way. First, I would love to hear his examples of things t...
Baroness Hanham | 679 c116GC (Link to this contribution) I support the amendments—particularly Amendments Nos. 38 and 39. It is curious that the electoral re...
Lord Greaves | 679 c113GC (Link to this contribution) had given notice of his intention to move Amendment No. 35:"Page 5, line 7, leave out subsection (6)...
Lord Greaves | 679 c113GC (Link to this contribution) I was going to say that I was concerned not only that money would be clawed back but also that the p...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 679 c102-3GC (Link to this contribution) Let me be clear: the £10 million I referred to earlier is for the establishment of the CORE national...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 679 c101-2GC (Link to this contribution) Yes, it is just like with builders, is it not? There is an issue there, of course, but it is importa...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 679 c100GC (Link to this contribution) I will be brief. I am in favour of any mechanism—it might be that it has to be controlled centrally,...
Lord Hanningfield | 679 c103GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister mentioned some interesting figures. As my noble friend said, we are up to £30 million r...
Baroness Hanham | 679 c107-8GC (Link to this contribution) Let me say at the outset that I have nothing but admiration for the Electoral Commission. It has pro...
Baroness Hanham | 679 c106GC (Link to this contribution) I support my noble friend’s amendments. We are struggling against the background that we do not have...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 679 c105GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may suggest to the noble Lord that the National Audit Office would probably do a good job ...
Lord Norton of Louth | 679 c103-5GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 31:"Page 4, line 10, at end insert—" ““(5)   The amount paid under this sectio...
Lord Greaves | 679 c82-3GC (Link to this contribution) I have a small amendment which has intruded into this group—I hope that the noble Lord, Lord Hanning...
Lord Lyell | 679 c82GC (Link to this contribution) Noble Lords will see that Amendment No. 11 follows. If Amendment No. 10 were accepted, I could not c...
Lord Hanningfield | 679 c84GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Baroness for that response, which probably answers the point that I was making. Bu...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 679 c79GC (Link to this contribution) If there were no CORE scheme at all, could we not apply many of the principles which are set out as ...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 679 c81GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord, as that is a very good point. My assumption is that we would try to...
Baroness Hanham | 679 c75GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 5:"Page 1, line 18, leave out ““is specified by or under the scheme”” and insert...
Lord Greaves | 679 c74-5GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for her comments. Before I respond to what she said, I say to the noble Lord, L...
Lord Greaves | 679 c77-8GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 8:"Page 2, line 7, at end insert—" ““(   )   A scheme shall not cross a bounda...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 679 c78GC (Link to this contribution) I want to concentrate on a narrow area of the Bill. Can my noble friend confirm that the CORE scheme...
Baroness Hanham | 679 c66GC (Link to this contribution) Having asked the question, I have the answer. I thank the Minister for that reply. I beg leave to wi...
Lord Greaves | 679 c67-70GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 4:"Page 1, line 13, leave out ““update”” and insert ““provide changes to””" The...
Baroness Hanham | 679 c70GC (Link to this contribution) I support these amendments. At the moment we are addressing the CORE register as a national coming-t...
Lord Lyell | 679 c64GC (Link to this contribution) I advise the Committee that if Amendment No. 1 is agreed to, I will not be able to call Amendment No...
Lord Greaves | 679 c89-90GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 16:"Page 2, line 39, leave out ““may””" The noble Lord said: We move on to Clau...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 679 c95GC (Link to this contribution) Has the noble Lord any evidence that that happened?
Lord Tyler | 679 c95GC (Link to this contribution) As I was saying, I see real merit in the precise set of circumstances to which my noble friend Lord ...
Lord Hanningfield | 679 c84GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 12:"Page 2, line 15, leave out ““be”” and insert ““hold office within””" The no...
Lord Hanningfield | 679 c88GC (Link to this contribution) I am sorry for the confusion. We were going to move clause stand part.
Lord Greaves | 679 c111-2GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 33:"Page 4, line 26, leave out paragraph (b)." The noble Lord said: This is a s...
Baroness Hanham | 679 c111GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for that explanation. I am satisfied that I knew what she was going to say. It ...
Baroness Hanham | 679 c110GC (Link to this contribution) There are other organisations. I should perhaps have said that I am not certain why we are ruling ou...
Lord Greaves | 679 c112GC (Link to this contribution) I am rather less satisfied with the answer to this amendment than I was with answers to previous ame...
Baroness Hanham | 679 c109GC (Link to this contribution) I made it abundantly clear in my opening remarks that I recognise that the clause is permissive. I s...
Lord Greaves | 679 c114GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that explanation. There is clearly a difference between buying in software and put...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 679 c116-8GC (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful. The noble Lord, Lord Greaves, and the noble Baroness, Lady Hanham, are absolutel...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 679 c103GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord is right to raise this. Yes, it has gone into the baseline, so it is continual fundin...
Lord Hanningfield | 679 c103GC (Link to this contribution) I understand what the noble Baroness is saying. However, having been in local government finance for...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 679 c100-1GC (Link to this contribution) I knew the noble Lord, Lord Hanningfield, with his great experience, would be the mover behind this ...
Baroness Hanham | 679 c100GC (Link to this contribution) I want to add a little bit. What is this going to cost? It is going to cost £12 million to set up. W...
Lord Norton of Louth | 679 c105-6GC (Link to this contribution) In terms of efficiency, yes, but it is not a body that understands electoral processes. The new cla...
Lord Hanningfield | 679 c81-2GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 10:"Page 2, line 8, leave out subsections (8) and (9)." The noble Lord said: In...
Lord Greaves | 679 c81GC (Link to this contribution) The implication of that is that there would be a local electoral registration area with some parts i...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 679 c79GC (Link to this contribution) Is that not a very expensive way of dealing with the problem of donations? The Minister said that po...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 679 c80GC (Link to this contribution) No, clearly I am not, because my noble friend is coming back to ask me questions. I referred to page...
Lord Greaves | 679 c80GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for her response, which answered the questions I asked and confirmed that the i...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 679 c80GC (Link to this contribution) Will the noble Lord explain that a teeny bit more for me? I understand what he is saying about const...
Lord Greaves | 679 c80-1GC (Link to this contribution) I am not sure either, because I do not know what the Government want to do. Let us imagine a situati...
Lord Greaves | 679 c75GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that. The Minister’s knowledge is greater than mine—or at least she has more advis...
Lord Norton of Louth | 679 c66GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 2:"Page 1, line 5, after first ““schemes”” insert ““for the co-ordinated on-line...
Baroness Hanham | 679 c66-7GC (Link to this contribution) I speak to Amendments Nos. 3 and 6, which are associated with Amendment No. 2. These two amendments ...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 679 c67GC (Link to this contribution) I have a short note on this, because I can see exactly what the noble Lord, Lord Norton of Louth, is...
Lord Norton of Louth | 679 c67GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Baroness. This is a drafting amendment, although it embodies an important...
Lord Lyell | 679 c63GC (Link to this contribution) I make the usual comment that, if there is a Division in the Chamber while we are sitting, the Commi...
Baroness Hanham | 679 c63-4GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 1:"Page 1, line 5, leave out ““one or more schemes (CORE schemes)”” and insert “...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 679 c65-6GC (Link to this contribution) I will certainly try to do that. We were primarily looking to address concerns—raised by the politic...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 679 c90-1GC (Link to this contribution) As I said when we were discussing Amendment No. 5, we agree with the spirit of what the noble Lord, ...
Lord Greaves | 679 c91GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for that long and comprehensive answer. I hope that when I read it in ...
Lord Greaves | 679 c92-4GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 20:"Page 3, line 18, after ““for”” insert ““redirection to””" The noble Lord sa...
Lord Tyler | 679 c94-5GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may make a short contribution in relation to the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Campbe...
Lord Tyler | 679 c95-6GC (Link to this contribution) As it happened, I won by nine votes in that election. If anybody was going to challenge that result,...
Lord Norton of Louth | 679 c96GC (Link to this contribution) I suspect that I am anticipating an argument that my side will develop later. We already have a uniq...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 679 c96-7GC (Link to this contribution) I will resist the temptation to get involved in what will be very important part of our Committee de...
Lord Greaves | 679 c97GC (Link to this contribution) I will forgive the Minister a great deal if she promises to look at my amendments without condemning...
Lord Hanningfield | 679 c99-100GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 26:"Page 4, line 2, leave out ““may pay grant”” and insert ““must make sufficien...
Lord Greaves | 679 c98-9GC (Link to this contribution) I was pretty convinced by the Minister’s arguments on Amendment No. 25. It seemed that she again con...
Lord Lyell | 679 c85GC (Link to this contribution) What about Amendment No. 12? Is it still being moved?
Lord Rennard | 679 c84-5GC (Link to this contribution) Looking at this, I wondered initially whether it was simply a matter of wording—then I wondered if i...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 679 c87GC (Link to this contribution) My noble friend raises an interesting point. Part of the purpose of the consultation, in looking at ...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 679 c87GC (Link to this contribution) My noble friend referred to the keeper as perhaps being the Electoral Commission. Does that not chan...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 679 c88-9GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord. To pick up his earlier point briefly, we debated the fact that, nei...
Lord Hanningfield | 679 c88GC (Link to this contribution) We are still trying to get some clarity on this situation. We are creating an important piece of leg...
Lord Tyler | 679 c109-10GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness, Lady Hanham, makes a valid point, but if we remove Clause 4, it is not permissiv...
Lord Tyler | 679 c108-9GC (Link to this contribution) I am baffled by the argument put forward by the noble Baroness, Lady Hanham, because I cannot see wh...
Lord Greaves | 679 c114-6GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 38:"Page 5, line 40, leave out ““ERO who acts for”” and insert ““principal local...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 679 c120GC (Link to this contribution) This may be a convenient moment for the Committee to adjourn until Thursday 16 March at 2 pm.
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 679 c114GC (Link to this contribution) I shall be absolutely clear, in reassuring the noble Lord, Lord Greaves, that the CORE keeper cannot...
Baroness Hanham | 679 c102GC (Link to this contribution) Is this £19 million different from the £12 million we were talking about earlier? If so, we have rea...
Lord Norton of Louth | 679 c107GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for her response. I will give her the good news and the bad news. The ...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 679 c106-7GC (Link to this contribution) That would be nice but I can do that only so many times in one day. The noble Lord, Lord Norton, as ...
Lord Norton of Louth | 679 c105GC (Link to this contribution) It is indeed. The point that I am making is that the Electoral Commission ““may”” be designated—it d...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 679 c83GC (Link to this contribution) I hope that we do not show any flexibility on this matter. I regard these two subsections as absolut...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 679 c83GC (Link to this contribution) I have decided that I am not going to get into the issue of areas any more. I hope that the noble Lo...
Lord Rennard | 679 c82GC (Link to this contribution) I was a little aghast initially when I looked at subsections (8) and (9). It seems that the Secretar...
Lord Hanningfield | 679 c83-4GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister, but I was trying to make the point that the Secretary of State seemed to have ...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 679 c80GC (Link to this contribution) I am sorry if I am not being as succinct or as clear as I would like to be.
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 679 c79GC (Link to this contribution) A lot of the principles are the same. As I said in replying to the noble Baroness, Lady Hanham, on p...
Baroness Hanham | 679 c73GC (Link to this contribution) I am a bit worried about the Minister’s response. Paragraph 2 of the introduction to the consultatio...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 679 c75-6GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Baroness for raising this issue. In many areas I agree with the spirit of...
Baroness Hanham | 679 c76-7GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for that reply. I suspect that one of the differences between electoral registr...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 679 c78-9GC (Link to this contribution) I am always delighted to talk about any issue in Committee, and I am grateful to my noble friend. No...
Lord Norton of Louth | 679 c70-1GC (Link to this contribution) I wish to express my sympathy with the amendments spoken to by the noble Lord, Lord Greaves. I am pa...
Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville | 679 c71GC (Link to this contribution) In debates on local government and election law, I often find myself in consistent agreement with th...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 679 c71-3GC (Link to this contribution) I say to the noble Lord, Lord Brooke, that I love the idea that I gave a ruling. That would be a fir...
Baroness Hanham | 679 c65GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for her amiable reply, which was very good to hear at this early stage. It migh...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 679 c64-5GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Baroness for raising in her amendment a number of key points, which I am ...

Subjects

Contracts
Data protection
Databases
Administration
Fraud
Finance
Elections
Electorate
ICT
Electoral Commission
Electoral register
Registration
Electoral registration officers
Coordinated online record of electors

Legislation

Electoral Administration Bill 2005-06

Link

View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk
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