Serious Crime Bill (HL). Lords Report stage first day. Part 1 of 2 records.
Serious Crime Bill [HL]
About these Parliamentary proceedings
Reference
691 c665-723 Session
2006-07Legislative stage
Report stageChamber / Committee
House of Lords chamberRelated items
Serious Crime Bill (HL) 2006-07. As amended in Committee.
Tuesday, 27 March 2007
Bills
House of Lords
Tuesday, 27 March 2007
Bills
House of Lords
Proceeding contributions
Lord Henley | 691 c701 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 25:
25: Clause 4, page 5, line 16, leave out ““Secretary of State”” and insert...
Lord Dholakia | 691 c701 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, has there been any slippage in terms of the transfer of functions, or will it still take p...
Show all contributions (93)
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 691 c704 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I amvery grateful to my noble friend Lord Crickhowellfor his support. I am grateful also t...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 691 c702 (Link to this contribution)
No, my Lords.The noble Lord will know that at the moment the current Secretary of State for the Depa...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 691 c720 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 46:
46: Clause 41, page 25, line 37, leave out ““charge or””
On Question, ame...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 691 c721-3 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for indicating kindly that he broadly supports our position. I am a...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 691 c718 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, if the prosecution proves the ingredients of the offence asit stands, the defendant will b...
Lord Lucas | 691 c715 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I am grateful for that reply. I look forward to taking the opportunity that the Minister h...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 691 c715-7 (Link to this contribution)
moved AmendmentNo. 43:
43: Clause 40, page 25, line 18, at end insert ““; and
(c) his act was unre...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 691 c709-10 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, we have already discussed in some detail the appropriate standard of proof for the orders ...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 691 c705-6 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for moving his amendments, which I support. He referred to t...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 691 c706 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, we are grateful to the Government for moving so far on this issue. We were very concerned ...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 691 c706 (Link to this contribution)
moved AmendmentNo. 29:
29: Clause 5, page 6, line 9, leave out subsection (7)
On Question, amendm...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 691 c706-7 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 30:
30: Clause 7, page 6, line 33, leave out from ““order”” to end of line 34 ...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 691 c701 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I welcome that further clarification and I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. We shall n...
Lord Henley | 691 c702 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I thank the Minister for that response. I take it that some of the amendments cover matter...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 691 c701-2 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, these amendments seek to change references made to the Secretary of State to the Lord Chan...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 691 c704 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Anelay, for tabling these amendments. As she sai...
Lord Crickhowell | 691 c703-4 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I put my name to these amendments for two reasons. First, there is understandable wide pub...
Lord Henley | 691 c702 (Link to this contribution)
Again, my Lords, I thank the Minister for that response, which I think I understand. I suspect that ...
Lord Henley | 691 c723 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, the Minister said thatthis is not easy, and she gave us a long and detailed explanation of...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 691 c723 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendments Nos. 49 and 50:
49: Clause 43, page 27, line 16, leave out ““charge or””
50: Cl...
Lord Henley | 691 c720-1 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 47:
47: Clause 42, page 26, line 36, leave out subsection (6)
The noble Lord ...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 691 c718-9 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, it is important for me to clarify how we see this matter. As the noble Lord knows, ultimat...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 691 c719 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, with the greatest respect, that indicates the problem. I hope that I am not baffling your ...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 691 c719-20 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 45:
45: Clause 41, page 25, line 31, leave out ““charge or””
The noble Barone...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 691 c717-8 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I know that the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, has been concerned about this issue b...
Lord Henley | 691 c714 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, knowing the Government’s total, absolute and complete commitment to freedom of information...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 691 c714-5 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I shall certainly try to be frank, but not too full; I can cut the time that I need to det...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 691 c713-4 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister. I accept that my amendments are defective and have put thin...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 691 c710 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I am most grateful to the Minister for giving me that comprehensive reply, but it does not...
Baroness Carnegy of Lour | 691 c713 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, it would be interesting to know whether such a format as ““see”” exists elsewhere in legis...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 691 c713 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, perhaps I may apologise to the noble Baroness. Because I thought that we were in agreement...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 691 c712 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 39:
39: After Clause 35, insert the following new Clause—
““Disclosure of info...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 691 c712 (Link to this contribution)
moved, as an amendment to Amendment No. 39, AmendmentNo. 40:
40: After Clause 35, line 3, at begin...
Baroness Carnegy of Lour | 691 c707 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, the House looks forward to hearing from the Minister, first, why she has not responded in ...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 691 c707-8 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I, too, have great sympathy with the intention behind the noble Baroness’s amendment. It i...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 691 c708 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I am grateful for the support of my noble friend Lady Carnegy, whose explanation clarified...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 691 c708-9 (Link to this contribution)
moved AmendmentNo. 37:
37: Clause 33, page 22, line 19, at end insert—
““(3) Notwithstanding this,...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 691 c705 (Link to this contribution)
moved AmendmentNo. 28:
28: Clause 5, page 6, line 2, leave out from ““include”” to end of line 3 a...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 691 c695-7 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I do not have the table from which those figures were adduced, but I can certainly find th...
Lord Lloyd of Berwick | 691 c697 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, of course I accept the bona fides of the noble Baroness and the Government, but she has no...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 691 c699-700 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 23:
23: Clause 4, page 5, line 6, leave out from ““intentions”” to end of line...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 691 c700 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I realise that we did not go into the detail of this amendment when we discussed this clau...
Lord Lloyd of Berwick | 691 c695 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, it was good of the noble Baroness to provide those earlier figures she sent to me. How man...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 691 c683 (Link to this contribution)
It was Humpty Dumpty.
Earl of Onslow | 691 c683 (Link to this contribution)
Was it? I thought that the Government were the Queen of Hearts, but they now appear to be Humpty Dum...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 691 c684 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I have not the slightest doubt that the procedures under the Bill will be held to be crimi...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 691 c686 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for her response but I am particularly grateful to all noble...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 691 c684-5 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, we discussed these amendments in Committee and I do not want to tire the House by repeatin...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 691 c686-7 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I do so gladly. Like the noble Viscount, I am a keen observer of the rules at Third Readin...
Viscount Bledisloe | 691 c686 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, the noble Baroness talks about bringing the amendment back at Third Reading. Can she expla...
Baroness Park of Monmouth | 691 c689-90 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, in the absence of the recognised expert in the House on the issue, the noble Baroness, Lad...
Lord Lloyd of Berwick | 691 c687-9 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 21:
21: After Clause 3, insert the following new Clause—
““Involvement in seri...
Earl of Onslow | 691 c690 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I have only one thing to say. If the use of intercept evidence puts sources at risk, the C...
Lord Armstrong of Ilminster | 691 c691 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, it is some time since I was officially concerned with the business of interception. Then, ...
Viscount Bledisloe | 691 c691 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, the objections raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Park, are remarkable if one looks at the...
Lord Dear | 691 c690-1 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I have dialled this telephone number before and it will be no surprise to your Lordships t...
Lord Boyd of Duncansby | 691 c692-3 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, until October last year I was closer to this argument and debate in government than I am n...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 691 c692 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I was referring to the particular procedures followed in a criminal trial, not to public i...
Lord Lyell of Markyate | 691 c692 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I am very surprised that the noble Lord believes that PII procedures were first introduced...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 691 c691-2 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, until 1993 the idea that the prosecution should have private communication with a judge an...
Lord Henley | 691 c693-4 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, in moving the amendment, the noble and learned Lord, Lord Lloyd of Berwick, referred to ou...
Lord Burnett | 691 c671 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, first, I thank the Minister for organising the meeting last Monday that was attended by me...
Earl of Onslow | 691 c671 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I deeply apologise for arriving late. I am a member of the Joint Committee on Human Rights...
Viscount Bledisloe | 691 c676 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, does the noble Baroness not recognise that that is precisely what Amendment No. 1 does? He...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 691 c676-7 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, this is within the context of civil proceedings. I am repeating the arguments that I made ...
Baroness Park of Monmouth | 691 c677 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I apologise to the House for coming late and therefore, perhaps, asking a stupid question,...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 691 c677 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, it may be that because the noble and learned Lord, Lord Lloyd, was speaking the noble Baro...
Baroness Carnegy of Lour | 691 c671-2 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, my noble friend Lord Onslow castigated my noble friend on the Front Bench for the position...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 691 c672-5 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I thankthe noble Baroness, Lady Anelay, for the way she expressed her cautious support for...
Lord Mayhew of Twysden | 691 c675-6 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, is the Minister’s objection to these amendments procedural or substantive? I had the impre...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 691 c676 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, it is both. The whole point is that, to persuade the court to make this order, one has to ...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 691 c678-9 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, the amendments would require the applicant authorities to prove something of which they ca...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 691 c678 (Link to this contribution)
moved AmendmentNo. 5:
5: Clause 2, page 2, line 26, after ““has”” insert ““conducted himself in a ...
Lord Dholakia | 691 c677 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I thank the Minister. I shall look very carefully at the process that she has taken so muc...
Earl of Onslow | 691 c683 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I read from the report of the Joint Committee on Human Rights: "““The House of Lords Const...
Viscount Bledisloe | 691 c682-3 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, with Clause 2(2) the Government are having their cake and eating it in a remarkable way. I...
Lord Mayhew of Twysden | 691 c683 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I agree with what has been said. I do not think that this is any part of the judicial func...
Lord Burnett | 691 c682 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I am anxious not to repeat too much of what has been said so compellingly by the noble Bar...
Lord Waddington | 691 c682 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I am bound to say that Clause 2(2)(b) causes me concern, and I should like to underline th...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 691 c679 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I will certainly resist the temptation to bring them back on another occasion; I shall tes...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 691 c681-2 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 7:
7: Clause 2, page 2, line 36, leave out paragraph (b)
The noble Baroness s...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 691 c670-1 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I disagree with the noble Baroness, Lady Anelay, that the passing of these amendments woul...
Lord Lloyd of Berwick | 691 c667-8 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, in Committee, the noble and learned Lord, Lord Mayhew, who I am glad to see is in his plac...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 691 c668-70 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, the report of the Select Committee on the Constitution set out clearly the challenge that ...
Lord Dholakia | 691 c665-7 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 1:
1: Clause 1, page 1, line 6, after ““satisfied”” insert ““beyond reasonable...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 691 c694-5 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I can certainly make this much short and sweet: I accept without qualification the argumen...
Lord Lucas | 691 c714 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 42:
42: After Clause 36, insert the following new Clause—
““Record of serious ...
Baroness Hayman | 691 c707 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I must tell the House that if this amendment is agreed to, I cannot call Amendment No. 31 ...
Lord Dear | 691 c683-4 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, like the White Rabbit I have no time, so I will not take your Lordships’ time other than t...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 691 c702-3 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 26:
26: Schedule 1, page 46, line 25, at end insert—
““Robbery using an offens...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 691 c723 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I beg to move that consideration on Report be now adjourned. In moving the Motion I sugges...
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