Serious Crime Bill [HL]

My Lords, I, too, have great sympathy with the intention behind the noble Baroness’s amendment. It is vital that those who have severe mental disorders are given the necessary and appropriate treatments for their illnesses rather than simply treated in the same way as others when they come into contact with the criminal justice system. However, I hope that I will able to explain why I am confident that the intention is met in the way in which the courts will consider the granting of an order without making provision for it in the Bill. The noble Baroness will know that the clause provides the Secretary of State with a power to make an order that certain persons as specified in an order cannot have an order imposed on them. The reason for this is that the orders apply to organisations, including bodies corporate, partnerships and other unincorporated associations, as well as to individuals. It is not possible to say categorically that there are not, or will not be created, types of body to which it would be wrong or inappropriate to give an order. From the evidence that we have, the courts will make judgments on whether the proposed subjectwas in a fit enough mental condition to be made subject to an order. If a person was severely mentally incapacitated such that he could not conduct his affairs it is very hard to see how any order could be justified. That responds to the concern expressed by the noble Baroness, Lady Carnegy of Lour, about those who either lack capacity or have diminished capacity. For this reason, we believe that the amendment is unnecessary and resist it. However, I assure the noble Baroness that we went back to test out whether our confidence that this was the right way and would work was correct—and we believe that it will. That is why there is no amendment from the Government speaking to the issue.