Serious Crime Bill [HL]

My Lords, I shall certainly try to be frank, but not too full; I can cut the time that I need to detain your Lordships’ House on this matter by more than a fraction. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Lucas, for tabling the amendment andthe earlier draft. I understand that at least part of the intention behind it was a concern to ensure that the orders were not used inappropriately; I certainly side with that. I hope that my noble friend Lady Scotland’s earlier comments about the way in which the process would work in terms of making an order provided additional reassurance on the point. The High Court provides a more than adequate buffer against any attempt to use the orders inappropriately. However, as I said in my letter to the noble Lord on the subject, following discussion of a similar amendment in Committee we agreed that we needed to ensure that the orders were used and, more appropriately, managed in the most effective way. For example, we need to make absolutely certain that one hand knows exactly what the other is doing. Where SOCA or the Serious Fraud Office is contemplating seeking an order against the same person, they should of course be working closely together. Similarly, it will be very useful to know in several years’ time, when the orders have taken root, what innovative terms and approaches have been used by the courts and have worked best for one area of law enforcement, so that they can be used by others. For that to happen, there will be a central recording of details of orders. However, we have been looking at exactly how that will be achieved and have not yet bottomed out the exact form in which the register will be undertaken. For example, we will need to consult the Information Commissioner further to ensure that all data protection issues are taken into consideration. No doubt we need to properly examine how freedom of information issues might be affected by that. I hope that the noble Lord will accept that I have to resist the amendment, but will be reassured by what both the noble Baroness, Lady Scotland, and I have said in relation to our intention in this regard. I am more than willing to listen to any suggestions that he might have, now or later, on how the work canbe taken forward. I acknowledge his interest and, moreover, his expertise in the area, and I am sure that we would greatly benefit from some further advice and consideration on his part. We are with him in spirit, and are trying to work out the precise mechanics. We shall gratefully receive any help that noble Lords, including the noble Lord, Lord Lucas, can give us on the matter.