Animal Welfare Bill
About these Parliamentary proceedings
Reference
682 c201-64GCSession
2005-06Chamber / Committee
House of Lords Grand CommitteeRelated items
Animal Welfare Bill . Brought from Commons. Explanatory Notes HL Bill 88-EN also published.
Wednesday, 15 March 2006
Bills
House of Lords
Wednesday, 15 March 2006
Bills
House of Lords
Proceeding contributions
Lord Kirkhill | 682 c224GC (Link to this contribution)
I very much support the amendment. I am conscious of the fact that my noble friend Lord Lipsey has m...
Duke of Montrose | 682 c228GC (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the Minister for his explanation. It is very interesting to realise that the Govern...
Show all contributions (97)
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 682 c224GC (Link to this contribution)
We on these Benches are grateful to the noble Baroness for tabling this amendment. Given all the exp...
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 682 c232GC (Link to this contribution)
I thank the Minister for his reply. I shall certainly read very carefully what he said and will weig...
Baroness Byford | 682 c232-3GC (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 47:"Page 7, line 41, at end insert—"
““( ) The recipient of an improvement...
Lord Rooker | 682 c233-5GC (Link to this contribution)
I shall deal with the amendments in reverse order. Amendment No. 48 proposes that we should adopt in...
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 682 c237GC (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 50:"After Clause 10, insert the following new clause—"
““OFFERING ANIMALS AS P...
Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton | 682 c247-8GC (Link to this contribution)
I have learnt one thing in your Lordships’ House; that is, never to answer technical questions about...
Lord Brabazon of Tara | 682 c256GC (Link to this contribution)
I should point out to the Committee that, if this amendment is agreed to, I cannot call Amendments N...
Baroness Byford | 682 c255GC (Link to this contribution)
Can I add to what my noble friend said? The difficulty that we have, as referred to by the noble Bar...
Lord Rooker | 682 c217-8GC (Link to this contribution)
I hope to give the clarity that the noble Baroness requires but, in some ways, the answer to her que...
Baroness Byford | 682 c219-20GC (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 42:"After Clause 8, insert the following new clause—"
““GREYHOUND WELFARE
(1) ...
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 682 c227GC (Link to this contribution)
I support the sentiment behind the proposal and the exploration of the issue, but I wonder whether t...
Countess of Mar | 682 c229-30GC (Link to this contribution)
I support the noble Baroness, Lady Miller, in her amendment. However, there is yet another group of ...
Lord Rooker | 682 c224-6GC (Link to this contribution)
I was almost going to say the same, but I have got my notes and my brief. I pay tribute to the exper...
Baroness Byford | 682 c201-3GC (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 33:"Page 5, line 33, at end insert ““unless that person is reporting an animal f...
Lord Christopher | 682 c210GC (Link to this contribution)
It is difficult not to have sympathy with the amendment. On the other hand, as the noble Earl, Lord ...
Countess of Mar | 682 c212GC (Link to this contribution)
I am curious about how the proposal will work. The noble Baroness, Lady Miller, made a comparison be...
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 682 c211GC (Link to this contribution)
For clarification, I want to ask the noble Earl, Lord Peel, a question. He spoke about scientific ev...
Baroness Byford | 682 c230GC (Link to this contribution)
I accept that, but in some ways it is difficult to define someone who has only five or six animals, ...
Countess of Mar | 682 c231GC (Link to this contribution)
The Minister cleared the matter up for me in his first few words. It is simply that we need to be ab...
Lord Rooker | 682 c232GC (Link to this contribution)
They are considered under the Bill whether they are farmed or wild, but the noble Baroness raises a ...
Lord Rooker | 682 c235GC (Link to this contribution)
The cost point is very important. I would like to give an answer. There would be costs, but they may...
Duke of Montrose | 682 c236GC (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Miller, for moving this amendment and for clarifying the s...
Baroness Byford | 682 c235GC (Link to this contribution)
I assume that. I will certainly read carefully what the Minister has said. I beg leave to withdraw t...
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 682 c235-6GC (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 49:"After Clause 10, insert the following new clause—"
““PET THEFTS
(1) A pe...
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 682 c236-7GC (Link to this contribution)
I thank the noble Duke, the Duke of Montrose, for highlighting a problem that sometimes creates grea...
Lord Bilston | 682 c237-8GC (Link to this contribution)
I rise to oppose this amendment tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Miller of Chilthorne Domer. It pr...
Lord Rooker | 682 c241-2GC (Link to this contribution)
I was going to say, ““Perhaps I may dive to the rescue””, but that is a pun too far. I have never th...
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 682 c242-3GC (Link to this contribution)
That was a lively debate. I am glad that, by tabling my amendment, I enabled the ““hit squad””—if I ...
Lord Pendry | 682 c238-9GC (Link to this contribution)
I absolutely agree with my colleague, as a fellow member of the Showmen’s Guild, that this is killjo...
Lord Hoyle | 682 c240GC (Link to this contribution)
I, too, am a member of the Showmen’s Guild and I had also better declare my well known respect for t...
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 682 c248GC (Link to this contribution)
I thank the Minister. That is very helpful. Institutions such as the Monkey Sanctuary Trust will hav...
Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton | 682 c246-7GC (Link to this contribution)
This amendment proposed by the noble Baroness, Lady Miller of Chilthorne Domer, introduces a further...
Baroness Byford | 682 c264GC (Link to this contribution)
had given notice of her intention to move Amendment No. 60:"Page 8, line 28, leave out ““promoting””...
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 682 c255-6GC (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 59:"Page 8, line 27, leave out from ““regulations”” to end of line 31."
The nob...
Duke of Montrose | 682 c255GC (Link to this contribution)
I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment No. 57, by leave, withdrawn.
Clause 12 [Regulatio...
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 682 c255GC (Link to this contribution)
I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment No. 58, as an amendment to Amendment No. 57, by le...
Lord Rooker | 682 c255GC (Link to this contribution)
The noble Baroness will understand that I cannot possibly comment in advance of the court case decis...
Lord Rooker | 682 c255GC (Link to this contribution)
Before the noble Duke finishes, when I read out those potential four types of event it was all very ...
Lord Kirkhill | 682 c201GC (Link to this contribution)
I apologise for interrupting but I wondered whether I might crave the indulgence of the Committee fo...
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 682 c218GC (Link to this contribution)
I thank the Minister for his reply. I say to the noble Countess that I had no intention of bringing ...
Countess of Mar | 682 c216-7GC (Link to this contribution)
The noble Baroness talked about pet shop sales and pet sales but there has also been a fairly recent...
Baroness Byford | 682 c217GC (Link to this contribution)
I thank the noble Baroness for bringing this amendment before us today. It was debated at great leng...
Lord Soulsby of Swaffham Prior | 682 c223-4GC (Link to this contribution)
I strongly support this amendment. I will be brief. Due to the efforts of the noble Lord, Lord Lipse...
Lord Bilston | 682 c224GC (Link to this contribution)
As a former chairman of the All-Party Parliamentary Greyhound Group, I should pay a genuine tribute ...
Lord Lipsey | 682 c220-3GC (Link to this contribution)
First, I declare an interest as chairman of the British Greyhound Racing Board. That is clearly a di...
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 682 c215-6GC (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 41:"After Clause 8, insert the following new clause—"
““SALE OF ANIMALS ON THE...
Lord Rooker | 682 c227-8GC (Link to this contribution)
I am very careful, as I am conscious that I am still new in your Lordships’ House, but I think that ...
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 682 c228-9GC (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 45:"Page 7, line 17, at end insert—"
““( ) For the purpose of subsection (...
Baroness Byford | 682 c230GC (Link to this contribution)
I shall not elaborate on what the noble Baroness said, but she is right to ask for greater clarifica...
Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton | 682 c207-8GC (Link to this contribution)
I speak without advice. I take the noble Baroness’s point that many premises can be used or put up t...
Baroness Byford | 682 c208GC (Link to this contribution)
It was not me in a garage at that stage, but it was an example I gave. It could have been in a barn....
Baroness Byford | 682 c207GC (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the Minister for responding so fully to these opening amendments. It was important ...
Lord Lyell | 682 c201GC (Link to this contribution)
The Grand Committee will no doubt be very grateful for the bilateral conversation between the noble ...
Earl Peel | 682 c209-10GC (Link to this contribution)
Given that the Bill is primarily enabling, it would seem contrary to its purposes to make specific p...
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 682 c208-9GC (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 39:"After Clause 8, insert the following new clause—"
““PHEASANTS AND PARTRIDG...
Earl Peel | 682 c211-2GC (Link to this contribution)
I do not know the technical answer. The Game Conservancy Trust, through the veterinary expertise of ...
Earl Ferrers | 682 c212GC (Link to this contribution)
I have not had the privilege of participating in this Bill before, and I hope your Lordships will fo...
Duke of Montrose | 682 c212-3GC (Link to this contribution)
I pick up in some ways the sentiment of my noble friend Lord Ferrers. I declare having at one time b...
Earl Peel | 682 c210GC (Link to this contribution)
The noble Lord makes an important point. I can tell him categorically that all the major shooting or...
Lord Lipsey | 682 c211GC (Link to this contribution)
I have the great good fortune to live in the middle of a pheasant-shooting estate. When the guns cam...
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 682 c214-5GC (Link to this contribution)
I thank all noble Lords who have spoken and the Minister for her reply. The previous occasion on whi...
Countess of Mar | 682 c230GC (Link to this contribution)
I hate the phrase ““hobby farmers””. Hobby farmers do not exist—they are either farmers or they are ...
Lord Rooker | 682 c230-1GC (Link to this contribution)
There is another group—domestic individual members of a non-domesticated species. I shall try to dep...
Baroness Byford | 682 c231-2GC (Link to this contribution)
Can the Minister, in adding to the list, consider the position of alpacas and llamas? At the moment,...
Countess of Mar | 682 c232GC (Link to this contribution)
I can add goats to that list, because a lot of people keep a couple of goats in their back garden an...
Baroness Byford | 682 c235GC (Link to this contribution)
Presumably the costs would be recoverable only if the person won the case.
Baroness Byford | 682 c235GC (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the Minister for his response. On Amendment No. 48, to which I spoke on behalf of m...
Duke of Montrose | 682 c239-40GC (Link to this contribution)
It has been interesting to listen to noble Lords and their convictions. I wonder whether the noble L...
Baroness Byford | 682 c245-6GC (Link to this contribution)
I understand the noble Baroness’s heart-tugging concerns about primates. Primates are like us in so ...
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 682 c243-5GC (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 51:"After Clause 10, insert the following new clause—"
““PROHIBITION ON KEEPIN...
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 682 c251-2GC (Link to this contribution)
moved, as an amendment to Amendment No. 57, Amendment No. 58:"Line 7, leave out paragraphs (a) to (d...
Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton | 682 c260-3GC (Link to this contribution)
I shall begin by continuing on the point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville....
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 682 c263-4GC (Link to this contribution)
I thank the Minister for her lengthy and detailed reply. It was helpful. She correctly picked up the...
Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville | 682 c259-60GC (Link to this contribution)
I speak as a member of the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee, although I am not speak...
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 682 c254GC (Link to this contribution)
Before the noble Duke comes back, that explanation was very helpful. The definition of what is comme...
Duke of Montrose | 682 c254-5GC (Link to this contribution)
The Minister has given us a useful exposition on the business of distinguishing what constitutes a s...
Lord Lyell | 682 c201GC (Link to this contribution)
The usual housekeeping rules apply for Grand Committee. There are no Divisions and we will go throug...
Baroness Byford | 682 c226-7GC (Link to this contribution)
I am very grateful to the Minister for his response. I take the point that he would like the Defra w...
Duke of Montrose | 682 c227GC (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 43:"Page 7, line 7, at end insert ““in which to live, play and exercise””"
The ...
Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton | 682 c203-7GC (Link to this contribution)
As noble Lords are aware, the clause to which Amendment No. 34 refers was subject to fairly substant...
Countess of Mar | 682 c203GC (Link to this contribution)
On Amendment No. 36, what would happen if some organisation such as the BBC took an undercover film ...
Lord Christopher | 682 c210-1GC (Link to this contribution)
I am glad to hear that, but the test that should be applied is not in this proposal. It lies in the ...
Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton | 682 c213-4GC (Link to this contribution)
In response to the noble Earl, Lord Ferrers, the title of the Bill is ““Animal Welfare””, so it appr...
Lord Christopher | 682 c232GC (Link to this contribution)
I can add, too, that castrated alpacas are now being widely sold as family pets and are being kept a...
Lord Rooker | 682 c235GC (Link to this contribution)
Yes, I am assuming that that is the case.
Lord Rooker | 682 c236GC (Link to this contribution)
In summary, I think that I will horrify the noble Baroness by saying that if this amendment should b...
Lord Lipsey | 682 c240-1GC (Link to this contribution)
I am a bit of a showman, but not a member of the Showmen’s Guild. However, I support the points that...
Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville | 682 c245GC (Link to this contribution)
My noble friend Lord Ferrers earlier prefaced his observations on Amendment No. 39 by saying that th...
Lord Rooker | 682 c252-4GC (Link to this contribution)
I shall do my best to respond. On some of the issues raised, particularly the reference to earlier l...
Duke of Montrose | 682 c248-51GC (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 57:"After Clause 11, insert the following new clause—"
““PET FAIRS
(1) A per...
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 682 c247GC (Link to this contribution)
I thank the noble Lord, Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville, for his eloquent contribution. It was a re...
Lord Rooker | 682 c264GC (Link to this contribution)
I think this is a convenient moment for the Committee to adjourn until Wednesday 14 June at 3.45 pm....
Baroness Byford | 682 c256-9GC (Link to this contribution)
I will speak to the Conservative amendments in this group. Before doing so, however, I will follow u...
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