Animal Welfare Bill

I hope to give the clarity that the noble Baroness requires but, in some ways, the answer to her question on internet sales is yes and no, and I shall explain why. Obviously we are aware that concern has been expressed about the selling of animals via the internet. In some ways, sales are affected by the inability to see the animal prior to purchase. As the noble Countess said, it is possible to see the animal, but you have to know that that is the animal you are going to purchase. In respect of farm animals, particularly cattle, you would know which animal it was because it would be registered and numbered. Under the current law, a person might well be required to have a licence to sell animals over the internet. That would apply if he had premises at which he carried on the business of selling animals and advertised those animals for sale on the internet. An example would be a pet shop that had diversified somewhat and was selling animals over the internet as part of its business. If that were the case, it could be required to have a licence. We want the licensing and regulation to continue when we introduce new regulations on commercial selling. However, it is not our intention to introduce licensing or regulations for those who merely advertise, whether on the internet or in a newspaper, but do not keep animals. We want to work with the interested parties to see whether we can make effective and proportionate regulations in this area and, once we have worked out the draft regulations and code of practice, we will fully consult all concerned. Subsection (6) would allow the local authority to apply for a warrant to enter premises to search for evidence in connection with possible offences. However, I can assure noble Lords that, when the regulations on the selling of animals over the internet are made, such a power will be available through paragraph 9 of Schedule 1 to the Bill. To that extent, the necessary provision is included in the Bill, although I accept that it is buried in a schedule. The Government recognise the need to have in place regulations which strengthen the welfare safeguards when pet animals are sold commercially. I suspect that that brings me to an answer that I do not have as I do not think that we were talking about farm animals, for which different sets of rules would apply. The answer that I have concerns pet animals. Regarding the code of practice on sales, our preference is for a voluntary code at first. I think that we have to go down that route in the first instance because we are likely to get more co-operation and the process is likely to be quicker. Of course, the operation of the code would then be monitored. As I have pointed out, the advertising of pets over the internet is not covered by the current law unless people are keeping premises at which they keep animals. If the animals are not kept on the premises, there will not be any licence or regulations. Therefore, the internet provider will not have any responsibility in that regard because the person in question is not keeping animals. If he was keeping animals, we could get at him through another route. The noble Countess asked me about pedigree farm animals. If a farmer keeps pedigree animals and offers them for sale over the internet, he is likely to come within the provisions to be made under secondary legislation. However, at the moment this is open to discussion and has not been decided. I hope that that gives the clarification that the noble Baroness was looking for, bearing in mind the long debate that took place in the other place.