UK Parliament / Open data

Civil Aviation Bill

Debate on bills on Monday, 10 October 2005, in the House of Commons, led by Karen Buck. The answering member was Alan Duncan.
Civil Aviation Bill. Report stage and third reading debate. Agreed to on question. Passed.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

437 c57-125, (corrigendum) 274;437 c57-125 

Session

2005-06

Department

Department for Transport

Legislative stage

Third reading and Report stage

Procedure

New clauses

Chamber / Committee

House of Commons chamber

Related items

Civil Aviation Bill. Explanatory notes Bill 12-EN also published (Vote)
Thursday, 9 June 2005
Bills
House of Commons
Deposited Paper HINF 2005/1737
Monday, 24 October 2005
Deposited papers
House of Commons
Deposited Paper DEP 05/1239
Monday, 24 October 2005
Deposited papers
House of Commons

Proceeding contributions

Lord Garnier | 437 c75 (Link to this contribution) I can bring the hon. Gentleman good news. Perhaps because I am a pain in the posterior, Mr. Barry Wy...
Mark Todd | 437 c75 (Link to this contribution) I see him all the time.

Show all contributions (172)
Lord Garnier | 437 c75-7 (Link to this contribution) Well, the hon. Gentleman will have another chance—I do not know whether to commiserate with him or c...
Lord Garnier | 437 c77 (Link to this contribution) I know that the hon. Member for Manchester airport is keen to support his Manchester airport group a...
David Leslie Taylor | 437 c77-8 (Link to this contribution) The hon. and learned Gentleman is perhaps a little unfair to the newly appointed press officer. We h...
Lord Garnier | 437 c74-5 (Link to this contribution) Let me explain something to the hon. Member for Crawley (Laura Moffatt) straight away. I fully accep...
Julian Brazier | 437 c75 (Link to this contribution) My hon. and learned Friend is making a characteristically clear and important point. I urge him to j...
Lord Garnier | 437 c75 (Link to this contribution) Since I have accurately described in one sentence what my hon. Friend was going to say on new clause...
David Leslie Taylor | 437 c75 (Link to this contribution) Would the hon. and learned Gentleman be surprised to know that on several occasions the ICC has decl...
Lembit Opik | 437 c73 (Link to this contribution) I do not want to get directly involved in the debate, because I do not live near an airport. Will th...
Laura Moffatt | 437 c73-4 (Link to this contribution) I sincerely thank the hon. Gentleman for that intervention, which goes to the heart of many of the d...
Baroness Kramer | 437 c73 (Link to this contribution) I wonder whether the hon. Lady understands that over the years my constituents who live under the fl...
Laura Moffatt | 437 c73 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Lady for her contribution, but I do not share her view. I do not know about her con...
Laura Moffatt | 437 c74 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Lady, but I do not support that view. I firmly believe that we should continue to p...
Speaker | 437 c74 (Link to this contribution) Order. If the hon. Member for Broxbourne (Mr. Walker) wants to intervene, it would be helpful if he ...
Justine Greening | 437 c74 (Link to this contribution) Surely, given the hon. Lady’s words, it is vital that she support our amendments to provide the fram...
Peter Ainsworth | 437 c73 (Link to this contribution) : The hon. Lady has not grasped the Government’s objective. She knows that the consultation on the f...
Laura Moffatt | 437 c73 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. I do not share the view that the only way in which ...
Laura Moffatt | 437 c72 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for that comment, but I rest my case. We should support economic activity at ...
Lord Garnier | 437 c71 (Link to this contribution) The Minister’s sedentary remarks are all the more to be regretted because we are talking about the r...
John Redwood | 437 c71-2 (Link to this contribution) I will not be drawn into anything quite so uncharitable, but I understand the drift of my hon. and l...
Laura Moffatt | 437 c72 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the opportunity to contribute, Mr. Deputy Speaker. In particular, I want to tease ...
David Leslie Taylor | 437 c72 (Link to this contribution) I am not sure whether I said that. MPs whose constituencies are positively affected by aviation in e...
David Leslie Taylor | 437 c69-70 (Link to this contribution) I accept that point in its entirety. The hon. Lady’s predecessor in the seat that she represents mad...
John Redwood | 437 c70-1 (Link to this contribution) I rise to support my hon. Friend the Member for Rutland and Melton (Mr. Duncan) in his excellent ame...
Peter Ainsworth | 437 c71 (Link to this contribution) As my right hon. Friend will know, my constituents are affected by Gatwick, which has a similar prob...
John Redwood | 437 c71 (Link to this contribution) I quite agree with my hon. Friend. [Interruption.] I hear the Minister from a sedentary position ask...
David Leslie Taylor | 437 c68-9 (Link to this contribution) I am sympathetic to the point that the hon. Lady makes. I am fairly sure that my hon. Friend the Mem...
Justine Greening | 437 c69 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for allowing me to intervene twice. He raises a valid point because my ar...
Baroness Kramer | 437 c68 (Link to this contribution) At the same time as the Bill has been going through Parliament, in my constituency—a good part of wh...
Adam Afriyie | 437 c68 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman’s postbag, like mine, contain many letters from residents under flight paths...
David Leslie Taylor | 437 c68 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes a fair point. The problems experienced by my constituents tend to be in the...
Justine Greening | 437 c67 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that what his and our amendments represent is certainty? For an airpor...
David Leslie Taylor | 437 c67-8 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the hon. Lady. What is needed is a greater degree of formality. With the present legisl...
Mark Todd | 437 c66-7 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for giving way again. There is a further powerful point, which was touched on...
David Leslie Taylor | 437 c67 (Link to this contribution) I do not dissent from a word that my hon. Friend—my neighbour—said. It may be that the Minister, who...
Lord Garnier | 437 c66 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman both for his contributions to these debates in the Chamber and outside an...
David Leslie Taylor | 437 c66 (Link to this contribution) As I suggested in my response to my hon. Friend the Member for South Derbyshire (Mr. Todd), that is ...
David Leslie Taylor | 437 c65-6 (Link to this contribution) I accept the thrust of my hon. Friend’s argument. If a regional airport such as Nottingham East Midl...
David Leslie Taylor | 437 c79 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that what the Government have said has underpinned their approach to aviat...
John McDonnell | 437 c78-9 (Link to this contribution) I shall speak about the amendments to which my name is attached and in support of amendment No. 21 a...
Lord Garnier | 437 c78 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the hon. Gentleman and I believe that my hon. Friend the Member for Putney (Justine Gre...
Lord Garnier | 437 c78 (Link to this contribution) I have to answer for all sorts of things, but not for decisions made by Ministers before I became a ...
John McDonnell | 437 c80-1 (Link to this contribution) The issue is more profound than that. It is about Government policy making on the future of aviation...
Jeremy Wright | 437 c80 (Link to this contribution) My constituents are affected by a much smaller airport than Heathrow, but I agree wholeheartedly wit...
Speaker | 437 c57 (Link to this contribution) I shall deal with the hon. Gentleman’s point of order first. Sometimes Members are surprised that th...
Brian H Donohoe | 437 c57 (Link to this contribution) Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. Having tabled an amendment, I was quite surprised to fi...
Speaker | 437 c58 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following: New clause 6—Sound-proofing of buildings a...
Alan Duncan | 437 c58 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
Alan Duncan | 437 c59 (Link to this contribution) I thank you for your guidance on the point of order, Mr. Speaker. Perhaps in due course we might cla...
Speaker | 437 c59 (Link to this contribution) Yes, that would be in order.
Alan Duncan | 437 c59 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to you, Mr. Speaker. Otherwise, I would not have had much of a Third Reading speech. ...
Alan Duncan | 437 c64-5 (Link to this contribution) I entirely agree with my hon. Friend. I have omitted to say that one can have an imbalanced regime o...
Alan Duncan | 437 c62-3 (Link to this contribution) Yes, I can confirm that. That is exactly why we have referred to the commercial flights officer. We ...
Lembit Opik | 437 c62 (Link to this contribution) As I understand it, it is the intention to apply the new clause to commercial flights. Will the hon....
Alan Duncan | 437 c62 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman raises a serious point. I shall flash back to amendment No. 1, given that the hon...
David Leslie Taylor | 437 c61-2 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving way. He is a county colleague who latterly, with othe...
Alan Duncan | 437 c60-1 (Link to this contribution) The perversity is self-evident. As Chairman of the Environmental Audit Committee, my hon. Friend wil...
Peter Ainsworth | 437 c59-60 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is addressing an issue of great concern to my constituents, which is why I have heard...
David Leslie Taylor | 437 c65 (Link to this contribution) I wish to speak to amendments Nos. 19 and 21, which were tabled in my name. Amendment No. 19 relates...
Mark Todd | 437 c65 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is making a powerful argument. In my brief contribution to Second Reading, I made the...
Karen Buck | 437 c116 (Link to this contribution) I will, but for absolutely the last time.
Lord Garnier | 437 c116-7 (Link to this contribution) I am extremely grateful. I know that the Government use the expression ““local solutions”” quite fre...
John P Smith | 437 c117-8 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that, had we had the opportunity on Report to reach clause 7, hon. Members on both sides w...
Alan Duncan | 437 c118 (Link to this contribution) Most of the health issues in the Bill, as well as in the amendments that we might have discussed tod...
Karen Buck | 437 c117 (Link to this contribution) I am afraid that I am just about to conclude. The Bill will abolish appeals to the Secretary of Sta...
Alan Duncan | 437 c117 (Link to this contribution) I do not want to detain the House long except to review our attitude to the Bill, which we have expr...
Brian H Donohoe | 437 c115 (Link to this contribution) Has the Minister considered the number of airlines in the United States that are under chapter 11 an...
Karen Buck | 437 c115 (Link to this contribution) I will try to cover some of those remarks but I do not want to detain the House too much.
Rob Marris | 437 c116 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend share my bemusement that the proponents of the scheme seem to suggest that someo...
Karen Buck | 437 c116 (Link to this contribution) That was certainly very much one of the considerations that was weighed up. Some advocates of the pr...
Tom Brake | 437 c115 (Link to this contribution) On weighing up the pros and cons, how did the Minister weigh up the £100 million of regulatory costs...
Karen Buck | 437 c116 (Link to this contribution) The costs effectively fall on different parts of the industry. In considering the issue, we bore in ...
Alan Duncan | 437 c115 (Link to this contribution) Is not this also effectively a third-party liability, which is roughly equivalent to the other scale...
Karen Buck | 437 c115 (Link to this contribution) I am not sure what the hon. Gentleman means. I cannot see that there is third-party liability; this ...
Gwyneth Dunwoody | 437 c115 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend will be aware that there was a failure during the summer. Although it received astoni...
Karen Buck | 437 c115 (Link to this contribution) I will address my hon. Friend’s remarks. As I have said, the CAA’s advice states that"““the chance o...
Alan Duncan | 437 c124 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way on an important point?
John P Smith | 437 c124 (Link to this contribution) No, the hon. Gentleman is not interested—
Alan Duncan | 437 c124 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. For the record, it is important to make a distinction between new ...
Speaker | 437 c124 (Link to this contribution) That is a matter for debate rather than a point of order.
John P Smith | 437 c124-5 (Link to this contribution) Thank you for your ruling, Mr. Speaker. We would have liked to see the Bill extended so that airlin...
Alan Duncan | 437 c119 (Link to this contribution) Quite clearly the answer is no. The Minister has no intention whatever of trying to repeal the packa...
Gwyneth Dunwoody | 437 c120 (Link to this contribution) : This is an extraordinarily incompetent piece of legislation. It misses most of the things that are...
Alan Duncan | 437 c118-9 (Link to this contribution) No, I will not give way again. It is apparent from what we have seen in the House tonight that ther...
Lembit Opik | 437 c122-3 (Link to this contribution) I declare an interest as one of three members of the flying community in this House, together with t...
John McDonnell | 437 c123 (Link to this contribution) : Despite having opposed most of the Bill, I welcome parts of it, especially clause 7, which deals w...
Tom Brake | 437 c120-1 (Link to this contribution) Clearly, the Bill is beneficial in parts. Clarifying the law on what airport operators can charge fo...
Brian H Donohoe | 437 c121-2 (Link to this contribution) : Earlier this evening, I made a point of order about an amendment that I had tabled and indicated t...
Laura Moffatt | 437 c124 (Link to this contribution) : There is much to commend the Bill to the House, although it is difficult for me to disguise my dis...
John P Smith | 437 c124 (Link to this contribution) : I shall make only a brief speech at the end of this interesting Third Reading debate. I support th...
John McDonnell | 437 c85 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for agreeing with my analysis of Heathrow’s history so far, but I wa...
Graham Stringer | 437 c85-6 (Link to this contribution) It has been a mistake to believe that we could stay at the forefront of the aviation industry and sa...
Alan Keen | 437 c86 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that the continual expansion of Heathrow is a short-term measure and bad p...
Graham Stringer | 437 c86 (Link to this contribution) I do not agree with my hon. Friend on that point. Moving away from Heathrow would represent an incre...
Graham Stringer | 437 c87 (Link to this contribution) I have given way a lot, but I will give way to the hon. Gentleman. I must then try to make some prog...
Graham Stringer | 437 c86 (Link to this contribution) I really must move on, because I want to talk about amendment No. 1 and new clause 4. I listened ver...
Graham Stringer | 437 c86-7 (Link to this contribution) I do not think that we should continue along the path of the Clean Air Act 1956, but I understand th...
Julian Brazier | 437 c86 (Link to this contribution) : The Conservative party is against the proliferation of petty regulation, but when certain things h...
Lembit Opik | 437 c89 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman accept that the issue is more complicated than is sometimes made out? I full...
Graham Stringer | 437 c87 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman brings me nicely to my next point about whether the argument made by the hon. Mem...
Baroness Kramer | 437 c87 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Adam Afriyie | 437 c87 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for his generosity; I appreciate that he has been intervened on many time...
Lord Horam | 437 c90-1 (Link to this contribution) I shall be brief. I could have made my remarks by intervening during the speech of the hon. Member f...
David Leslie Taylor | 437 c90 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that the hon. Gentleman would agree that night noise from the heavens can make airports ne...
Lord Randall of Uxbridge | 437 c89-90 (Link to this contribution) I shall be extremely brief, because I sense a certain restlessness in the Chamber and a mood to get ...
Graham Stringer | 437 c89 (Link to this contribution) I do not think that the effect of noise can be assessed simply by a meter measuring decibels, but th...
Julian Brazier | 437 c91 (Link to this contribution) On striking that balance, I would be most grateful if the Minister would clarify which side of the a...
Karen Buck | 437 c91 (Link to this contribution) The amendments, like the many that we debated in Committee, reflect an overall concern about how the...
David Leslie Taylor | 437 c93 (Link to this contribution) The Minister is right to note that there have been attempts at improvement, and noise preferential r...
Karen Buck | 437 c91-3 (Link to this contribution) With respect, we are not discussing the ““Future of Air Transport”” White Paper, but the Civil Aviat...
Mark Todd | 437 c94 (Link to this contribution) As a frequent visitor to the airport, I meet the authorities regularly. The Bill gives them powers t...
Karen Buck | 437 c93-4 (Link to this contribution) I am aware of the 10-point plan and that not everyone is satisfied with it. I am extremely conscious...
Karen Buck | 437 c94 (Link to this contribution) We reserved the right to designate airports and to intervene if they fail in their duty to bear down...
Mark Todd | 437 c94 (Link to this contribution) I want to get absolute clarity. My hon. Friend is saying that the only recourse is to turn to her fo...
Karen Buck | 437 c95 (Link to this contribution) There is a range of different measures—the relationship that the airport will have with its operator...
Karen Buck | 437 c96 (Link to this contribution) We are conscious of the fact that there could be problems in aerodromes of all kinds, but the princi...
Lembit Opik | 437 c96 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the Minister about the new clause. For clarification, does she agree that, as it has be...
Karen Buck | 437 c95-6 (Link to this contribution) No. I have taken several interventions and have a number of points to work through. Under section 7...
Karen Buck | 437 c97 (Link to this contribution) I will not be drawn on specific decibel levels; we have a clear framework.
Justine Greening | 437 c97 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Lady tell us how the Government define ““medium to high noise””? What decibel levels a...
Karen Buck | 437 c96-7 (Link to this contribution) I hear what my hon. Friend says and I am happy to discuss the matter with him further. We expect re...
John McDonnell | 437 c96 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the Minister’s response, but the purpose of amendment No. 17 is to draw attention ...
Alan Duncan | 437 c97 (Link to this contribution) Why not? What is the level? Tell us.
Karen Buck | 437 c97 (Link to this contribution) We know that high noise is 69 dB.
John Redwood | 437 c99 (Link to this contribution) Why does the Minister bother to come to the House when she does not listen to anything that people s...
Karen Buck | 437 c98-9 (Link to this contribution) I am very conscious of the fact that I have already gone on too long and that people are anxious to ...
Alan Duncan | 437 c99 (Link to this contribution) In view of everything that the Minister has said, we shall be pressing new clause 4 and amendment No...
Karen Buck | 437 c99 (Link to this contribution) I think that that was a rhetorical question. I am anxious that the Government should not intrude on...
Karen Buck | 437 c97-8 (Link to this contribution) It does not say here, so I cannot tell the House that figure. I will confirm the definition of mediu...
Karen Buck | 437 c98 (Link to this contribution) No, I have nearly finished. Our conclusion, following consultation, was that such involvement of lo...
Tom Brake | 437 c103-4 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time. Hon. Members might be wondering why the new c...
Julian Brazier | 437 c104 (Link to this contribution) My party has some sympathy with the thinking behind the new clause but it is not able to support it....
Tom Brake | 437 c110-1 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time. I am pleased to have an opportunity, albeit b...
Tom Brake | 437 c107 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for setting out the progress that is being made, which is welcome. I was aware ...
Stephen Ladyman | 437 c107 (Link to this contribution) That is the area where the debate is taking place—how we resolve the differences between states. I m...
John Pugh | 437 c107 (Link to this contribution) If the European Community draws up its own list and it does not exactly coincide with the British li...
Stephen Ladyman | 437 c105-7 (Link to this contribution) It does not happen very often, but when it does, we should acknowledge it—I agreed almost entirely w...
Julian Brazier | 437 c105 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has just made my point for me. It is most unlikely that the Civil Aviation Author...
John Pugh | 437 c105 (Link to this contribution) I accept the argument that in the European Union undue pressure may be applied to organisations to b...
Julian Brazier | 437 c105 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for confirming his position. We are firmly opposed to giving up ...
Tom Brake | 437 c104 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has understood our position correctly. If the time scales for introducing somethi...
Karen Buck | 437 c114-5 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time. I am grateful to everyone, or nearly every...
Julian Brazier | 437 c83 (Link to this contribution) : The arrangement would not involve many people. The essential problem is that there are four or fiv...
Tom Brake | 437 c82-3 (Link to this contribution) The amendments in the group suggest that, in relation to noise and emissions, the Government have no...
Lembit Opik | 437 c83 (Link to this contribution) : Does my hon. Friend agree that, as he has inferred, the CAA is the right organisation to do that? ...
Tom Brake | 437 c83 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. He, like me, will know that small departments have ...
John McDonnell | 437 c82 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend reminds me of the history of the debate on terminal 5. He and other Members who suppo...
Alan Keen | 437 c81-2 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend acknowledge that three local Members of Parliament—including myself and one who ...
Graham Stringer | 437 c84-5 (Link to this contribution) : I had not intended to speak on the Bill once I saw that the amendments dealing with support for st...
Tom Brake | 437 c83-4 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention. The point that he and I are making, and indeed the poin...
Graham Stringer | 437 c85 (Link to this contribution) I recognise that that Committee has produced those reports. I have made comments in the Chamber abou...
Peter Ainsworth | 437 c85 (Link to this contribution) : I am extremely grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving way, particularly as I have just returned...
John McDonnell | 437 c81 (Link to this contribution) There is a much wider debate to be had about the benefits and disbenefits of airports in regard to t...
David Leslie Taylor | 437 c81 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for restating the economic and social case for airports, be they lar...
Gwyneth Dunwoody | 437 c57 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. The Secretary of State for Transport told the Select Committee tha...
Mark Todd | 437 c78 (Link to this contribution) I want to focus on a point that I raised earlier and that I believe that the hon. and learned Gentle...
Adam Afriyie | 437 c87 (Link to this contribution) : Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Baroness Kramer | 437 c86 (Link to this contribution) : Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Graham Stringer | 437 c87-9 (Link to this contribution) I have given way several times, and I want to make progress. Most of my experience of balancing the...
Lord Randall of Uxbridge | 437 c90 (Link to this contribution) I take great pleasure in agreeing with the hon. Gentleman wholeheartedly. Such information would be ...
John McDonnell | 437 c79-80 (Link to this contribution) On the evidence of the past 40 years, and on the evidence produced in the recent discussions on term...
Charles Walker | 437 c63 (Link to this contribution) One of my constituents’ concerns is the expansion of Stansted airport, which wants not only to incre...
Karen Buck | 437 c117 (Link to this contribution) If my memory serves me, the default position is about 40 km from the central airport, and it can be ...
Karen Buck | 437 c119 (Link to this contribution) I can tell the hon. Gentleman that we intend to enter into discussions with the CAA to examine a ref...

Notes

Daily part printing error - Amendment to division list at 437 c114 - under "Noes" insert Jim Sheridan.

Subjects

Complaints
Consumers
Aviation
Air traffic control
Buildings
Aircraft
Airports
Air routes
Airlines
Health
Finance
Fees and charges
Licensing
Insurance
Insulation
Protection
Pollution control
Noise
Night flying
Radar
Standards
East Midlands Airport
London airports
Air Travel Trust
Airspace

Legislation

Civil Aviation Bill 2005-06

Link

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