Parliamentary Standards Bill. Lords second reading debate. Agreed to on question and committed to a Committee of the Whole House. Amendment to the Committal motion disagreed to on division (88 votes to 110). Original motion agreed to.
Parliamentary Standards Bill
Debate on bills on Wednesday, 8 July 2009,
in the House of Lords,
led by Baroness Royall of Blaisdon.
The answering
member was Lord Kingsland.
About these Parliamentary proceedings
Reference
712 c673-755Session
2008-09Legislative stage
Second readingChamber / Committee
House of Lords chamberRelated items
Parliamentary Standards Bill. Brought from the Commons. Explanatory Notes HL Bill 60-EN also published.
Thursday, 2 July 2009
Bills
House of Lords
Thursday, 2 July 2009
Bills
House of Lords
Proceeding contributions
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 712 c698-702 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, it is a particular pleasure to follow the noble Lord, Lord Higgins, because 43 years ago h...
Lord Higgins | 712 c697-8 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, with great respect to my noble friend, I want to be as brief as possible.
It is important...
Show all contributions (101)
Lord Kingsland | 712 c695 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, once again, the noble Lord is very kind in giving way. The fundamental difficulty about th...
Lord Peston | 712 c695 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, that cheers me up enormously; I must say that I think it cheers up the people sitting behi...
Lord Higgins | 712 c696-7 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, we are told by the Government that the Bill is designed to restore public confidence in Pa...
Lord Peston | 712 c695-6 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I am getting tired. I should like to finish my speech and sit down. Of course I agree with...
Lord Goodhart | 712 c714-5 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I recognise the urgency for this Bill, but it is not so urgent as to exclude proper scruti...
Baroness Perry of Southwark | 712 c712-4 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I also thank the noble Baroness, the Leader of the House, for her sympathetic way of deali...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 712 c704 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, listening to the noble and learned Lord, I wonder whether he still agrees with the Joint C...
Lord Mayhew of Twysden | 712 c704 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord. That is one of the many complex matters that deserves far...
Lord Armstrong of Ilminster | 712 c704-6 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, the evil that the Bill is intended to address needs to be remedied, and one can understand...
Lord Jenkin of Roding | 712 c706-8 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Armstrong, addresses the House with all the wisdom and moderation app...
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 712 c709-10 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, most of us agree that the Bill has all the hallmarks of a government quick fix for the sor...
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 712 c710-1 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I think it might be useful at this juncture for me to respond very briefly to the noble Lo...
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 712 c711 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, we are all delighted to hear the noble Baroness’s statement and are extremely grateful to ...
Lord Barnett | 712 c711-2 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I had intended to start my brief remarks by saying that I would not oppose the Bill on Sec...
Lord Jenkin of Roding | 712 c693 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I do not want to comment on what the noble Baroness the Leader of the House said, but it i...
Lord Peston | 712 c693 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I address your Lordships today with reluctance. Despite the great range of expertise on th...
Lord Kingsland | 712 c695 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I am most grateful to the noble Lord for giving way. I can assure him that the Opposition ...
Lord Peston | 712 c693-5 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I thought she had. She will have an opportunity, as she gets a second chance to speak whic...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 712 c689 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, it is a rare privilege to question a senior judge, and I will do so as modestly and as qui...
Lord Woolf | 712 c689-90 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, these are matters that no doubt should be considered. It is the need to consider matters o...
Lord Goodlad | 712 c690-1 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, the Leader of the House referred to the three reports of your Lordships’ Select Committee ...
Lord Howe of Aberavon | 712 c691-3 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I, like my noble friend Lord MacGregor, must acknowledge that for a short time—just one ye...
Lord Lea of Crondall | 712 c688-9 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble and learned Lord for giving way. Surely, the consideration of t...
Lord Woolf | 712 c689 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, fortunately, the position of criminal proceedings against a person who is a Member of Parl...
Lord Norton of Louth | 712 c752-3 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I made the case for the amendment in my speech earlier in the debate and I do not propose ...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 712 c753 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I have not spoken until now, but the noble Lord says that he made his points earlier. Sinc...
Lord Norton of Louth | 712 c753 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I am not sure whether the noble Lord heard my speech, but the assurances from the noble Ba...
Earl of Onslow | 712 c748 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, was there not a consensual agreement between Molotov and Ribbentrop in 1939?
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 712 c748 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, that is true—I wish that noble Lords had all been flies on the wall.
Lord Peston | 712 c748 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, has my noble friend listened to the speeches from the two opposition Front Benches? There ...
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 712 c748 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I listened respectfully to the Front Benches and to all noble Lords in this House, as I al...
Lord Kingsland | 712 c745 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, on the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Norton, I shall be in neither Lobby, and nor will...
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 712 c745-6 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, this has been a truly extraordinary debate in which it has been a great privilege to be ab...
Lord MacGregor of Pulham Market | 712 c746 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I am very grateful to the noble Baroness for what she said about me. I can assure her, and...
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 712 c746-8 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, it is a rum old business when the other place relies on this place, is it not? I suggest r...
Lord Barnett | 712 c745 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, in an earlier intervention in the speech of my noble friend Lord Peston the noble Lord ass...
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 712 c752 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I beg to move that the Bill be committed to a Committee of the Whole House. Normally, as t...
Lord Norton of Louth | 712 c752 (Link to this contribution)
Amendment to the Motion
At end to insert "and that the Committee shall not meet until 14 days from ...
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 712 c750-2 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I was ill reading my words. Forgive me. I know exactly what the noble Lord was referring t...
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 712 c752 (Link to this contribution)
Committal Motion
That the Bill be committed to a Committee of the Whole House.
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 712 c749-50 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, my very next page says "Lord Lester". The noble Lord proposed that there should be a tribu...
Lord Goodhart | 712 c750 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, the noble Baroness mentioned the Committee on Standards in Public Life; I mentioned the Co...
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 712 c749 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, forgive me if I misquoted the noble Lord. I beg your Lordships’ pardon.
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 712 c749 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, in her speech, will the Leader of the House be turning to the human rights implications ra...
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 712 c748 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I do not think that that remark is worthy of a reply.
I shall turn to the noble Lord, Lor...
Lord Goodlad | 712 c749 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, the Leader of the House said that I had said that the Bill would be counterproductive in i...
Lord Tyler | 712 c737-8 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, if the Leader of the House wishes to give an indication of what she is intending to do wit...
Lord Tyler | 712 c738-40 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I have never had a government Whip come to my help in that way; I hope that is not a bad s...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 712 c738 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I ask that the noble Lord, Lord Tyler, is listened to respectfully in this. This is an imp...
Earl of Onslow | 712 c742 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, my noble friend said that there was no urgency on certain financial matters. Under those c...
Lord Kingsland | 712 c740-2 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, my noble and learned friend Lord Mayhew of Twysden, with his characteristic felicity of ex...
Lord Goodhart | 712 c743 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for giving way. My understanding is that the Government ha...
Lord Kingsland | 712 c742-3 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, the noble Earl can ask as much as he likes. I have found, when I have responded to similar...
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 712 c743 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I indicated in my earlier speech that we would replace "recommended" with "referred". It i...
Lord Kingsland | 712 c743 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, we have tabled an amendment to the effect that the word "recommend" should be replaced by ...
Lord Kingsland | 712 c743 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, if that is an undertaking—
Lord Kingsland | 712 c743-4 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I completely agree with the noble Lord. The issue is whether Section 6 is human rights com...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 712 c743 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, that is the very problem of parliamentary privilege that must be solved by having a proper...
Lord Kingsland | 712 c743 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, we are in danger of getting into a Committee debate here, so I will reply to the noble Lor...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 712 c743 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I have listened carefully to the noble Lord. He has not yet faced the problem—I imagine th...
Lord Kingsland | 712 c744 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, removing Clause 8 would have no effect on the application of the criminal law.
The remain...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 712 c744 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, it would be possible even if the Bill becomes an Act.
Lord Kingsland | 712 c744 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, it is now possible to do that, and indeed I believe that to be the more desirable approach...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 712 c744 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, would it not be possible to prosecute the Member of Parliament under the Fraud Act, as wel...
Lord Kingsland | 712 c745 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, we have tabled a two-year sunset clause to the Bill. My noble friends have heard the speec...
Lord Tyler | 712 c744-5 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Kingsland, will be aware that a number of his noble friends pressed m...
Lord Crickhowell | 712 c716-20 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I was struck by the final remarks of the noble Lord, Lord Goodhart, that there may be even...
Earl of Onslow | 712 c730-1 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I have never been a Member of the House of Commons, but when I am either booted out of thi...
Earl of Onslow | 712 c731 (Link to this contribution)
Good, my Lords, she is. Well done.
The noble Baroness has to get up and say, "I have listened to ve...
Lord Lyell of Markyate | 712 c723-5 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I am glad to follow the noble Lord, Lord Neill. The commission set up by King James II und...
Lord Neill of Bladen | 712 c720-3 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I declare an interest as the second chairman of the Committee on Standards in Public Life,...
Lord Williamson of Horton | 712 c728-30 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, to me, as the 21st speaker in this debate, it seems a long time since we heard the first p...
Lord Norton of Louth | 712 c725-8 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, this Bill is introduced on the basis of a false premise. That premise underpins the desire...
Lord Elystan-Morgan | 712 c733-5 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, as your Lordships will appreciate, I am the 24th speaker and the last man in, as it were, ...
Lord Peston | 712 c736 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, will the noble Lord recommend to his colleagues that they should vote for the amendment of...
Earl of Onslow | 712 c737 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, if the Leader of the House were to get up now and say yes to three days or no to three day...
Lord Tyler | 712 c737 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, the Leader of the House has already indicated in her earlier remarks that she is prepared ...
Lord Low of Dalston | 712 c737 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, can I sharpen the question a little? How will the noble Lord review the situation if the H...
Lord Tyler | 712 c737 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, until we see how many amendments there are and your Lordships’ House is given the opportun...
Lord Crickhowell | 712 c737 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I asked a perfectly straightforward question. The noble Lord said that he needs three days...
Lord Crickhowell | 712 c737 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, will the noble Lord tell the House what he and his colleagues will do if he is not this ev...
Lord Tyler | 712 c736-7 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I shall come to that point immediately as it is raised. We believe that the amendments tha...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 712 c681 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, in relation to the work of the Joint Committee on Human Rights, the right honourable Jack ...
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 712 c673-81 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, the standing of Parliament and of politicians is at its lowest point in the modern history...
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 712 c673 (Link to this contribution)
That the Bill be read a second time.
Lord MacGregor of Pulham Market | 712 c683-5 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I do not want to talk about what happened in the other place, except to say that several o...
Earl of Onslow | 712 c682 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, the noble Lord is very critical of the Government, with which I agree 100,000 per cent, if...
Lord MacGregor of Pulham Market | 712 c681-2 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, as the first speaker from these Benches, I make it clear that I am speaking as a Back-Benc...
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 712 c681 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, we will bring forward amendments.
In the light of what I was saying, and following furthe...
Lord Woolf | 712 c686-8 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, the Bill has always been of modest physical dimensions but, as a result of the amendments ...
Lord Tyler | 712 c735-6 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, as will be apparent from my speech, which I approach with great trepidation, I am not a la...
Lord Tyler | 712 c737 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, there are, of course, two further stages after Committee—Report and Third Reading.
Lord Mayhew of Twysden | 712 c702-4 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, like the noble Lord, Lord Peston, I begin my contribution to this debate by thanking the L...
Lord Cope of Berkeley | 712 c731-3 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, the only surprise in the speech of my noble friend Lord Onslow was that he was in the leas...
Lord Shutt of Greetland | 712 c685-6 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for introducing the Bill. The need for it is self-evident in th...
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