Parliamentary Standards Bill

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for introducing the Bill. The need for it is self-evident in the harm that has been done to the body politic in the past two or three months. I am mindful, as many noble Lords will be, of the agreement involved. Not only the Prime Minister, but the three party leaders in the Commons, believe it is important for a Bill of this nature to be brought here. I agree that we have to be flexible with the timetable. If more days are required for Committee stage—it will depend on the number of amendments tabled—further time will have to be provided. This is a short Bill and it seems to be getting shorter in terms of what is before us. It has been an interesting experience for me as one who has been invited for what one might call informal pre-legislative scrutiny with the Lord Chancellor, the right honourable Jack Straw MP, representatives of all the parties in the Commons, including the nationalist parties and the Northern Ireland parties, and Cross-Benchers from this House. There have been at least five meetings, and the Bill changed in many ways before it became the one now published. The Bill is to create this thing called IPSA to create and run an expenses regime and pay salaries, to investigate alleged wrongdoing and deal with the consequences. My noble friends Lord Goodhart and Lord Lester of Herne Hill will have more to say on such matters. We have also been informed that the Bill does not affect this House, and the noble Baroness reiterated that point. One way of making that clear would be to re-name the authority the IHOCSA or the Independent House of Commons Standards Authority. The aim is to get MPs out of fixing salaries and expenses; yet Parliament is supreme. However if, through this regime, expenses became too much or were perceived as too little, I doubt that IPSA would last that long. I also want to mention the relationship between the various bodies that are looking at these matters. The Bill creates IPSA for the moment, which will look at the expenses regime and then pay those expenses, but we have Sir Christopher Kelly’s report to come, and then there is the SSRB. I am far from clear about the inter-relationships there. It could be, as the noble Lord, Lord MacGregor, indicated, that there is a greater relationship between these matters; particularly the salaries issue where, in certain circumstances, expenses seem to have been embraced as an addition to salary. Perhaps that should be put to one side and these things looked at in the round, and not separately. Reference has already been made to a sunset clause. There is no doubt about it: all those meetings have taken place; nevertheless, this is being done in a rush. Is it right? If there is a sunset clause and this Bill lasts a couple of years, it would be a good thing, particularly with post-legislative scrutiny. There are details in the Bill that need looking at. I am amazed that the Bill suggests that five people should become the IPSA and that those five can resolve themselves into a committee of—I assume—fewer than five. The committee can then resolve itself into a sub-committee, of fewer than fewer than five. It is strange that they cannot co-opt someone to serve on a sub-committee of a committee, when doing so may assist them on some element of benefit in kind, or something that they have no expertise in. At the Second Reading of a Bill, there comes a point at this stage where people say, "Well, I very much welcome this Bill and perhaps we can improve it in Committee", or, "This is a Bill that I want to oppose at every turn". I think this Bill may well need very much amendment, but it is one of those Bills that I feel we will just have to put up with.