Parliamentary Standards Bill

My Lords, the only surprise in the speech of my noble friend Lord Onslow was that he was in the least worried about being reported to Harriet Harman. I was surprised about that. This has been an exceptional debate, not least for the speeches of the two Labour Peers. But like the noble Lord, Lord Barnett, I find most of the things that I had in mind have already been said much more effectively than I could have done and have helped to change my own appreciation of this particular Bill. We have all been shocked over the past few weeks by these expenses revelations and the Commons is shell-shocked by them, which is what has given rise to the Bill, as others have said in different forms. There are two elements to the Bill. One is about expenses. I understand the Commons wants to try to do something about expenses before the Summer Recess starts, even though things are already going to happen during the Recess as consideration is given to what should happen in the future about the salaries and expenses of Members of Parliament. In any case, I am perfectly sure that in practice the expenses regime has already changed a great deal. I am quite sure that Members of Parliament are not claiming things that they would have claimed some months ago. I am also quite sure that the officials of what is now called the House of Commons Department of Resources are being much more careful about the expenses that they agree. I am also quite certain that the audit of what is happening now, which will be done in due course, will be much more rigorous than the previous audit of what was happening. So, as a matter of fact, the expenses regime has already changed a great deal in practice, whatever happens to the Bill. However, the Bill is also about what to do about the interests of Members of Parliament, and there is no urgency for that. The public have not been bothered about that to any great degree recently. It is a matter of the greatest complexity and anyone who did not understand that only has to read today's proceedings. There is much more that can be said about that, but I will not trouble your Lordships at the moment. Our excellent Leader of the House said at the beginning of her remarks that this is Commons business and we should let the Commons decide what happens to the Commons in respect of its allowances and so forth. I would have agreed with that until recently, but the fact is that the Commons brought us, your Lordships' House, into this. Things used to be settled with Commons Standing Orders, where we had no locus or role at all. The setting up of the present commissioner and so forth was all dealt with under Commons Standing Orders. Now it is proposed that it should all be done by statute law. That means both Houses of Parliament are involved in deciding what should be in statute law. There is also the danger of bringing in the courts. A lot has been said about that, to which I do not need to add this afternoon. The Commons has brought us into this, and this afternoon's debate has amply demonstrated that the Committee and Report stages will take a long time to settle. There is already a raft of amendments down before we even start our consideration—some of the greatest importance. We have heard enough this afternoon to know that it will all take a very long time. The very least that the Leader of the House needs to do when she winds up is to set out in detail the timetable that she now proposes we should follow. The very short timetables that have so far been suggested do not seem in the least adequate. Perhaps that will mean that we do not start the Recess as soon as we thought we might. Perhaps it will mean that we interrupt the Recess to come back to consideration of the Bill after a lull; or perhaps it will mean that we return to the matter after the Recess. It is unfortunate that the Recess is upon us because it adds to the difficulties of public presentation and, for that matter, of the consideration of the issues involved. We have been greatly assisted by the very fast and excellent work of the Constitution Committee, the Joint Committee on Human Rights and the Justice Committee. We have been greatly assisted by their fast work. I have no doubt that your Lordships will give great attention to the detail in the Bill but we need to know what the future is for both parts of the Bill; the part that deals with expenses and the part that deals with Members’ interests, which is much the more complicated and over which there is no urgency at all.