UK Parliament / Open data

Corporate Manslaughter and Corporate Homicide Bill

Debate on bills and Committee proceeding on Monday, 15 January 2007, in the House of Lords.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

688 c169-226GC 

Session

2006-07

Department

Home Office

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Procedure

New clauses

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords Grand Committee

Related items

Corporate Manslaughter and Corporate Homicide Bill. Brought from the Commons. Explanatory Notes HL Bill 19-En also published.
Tuesday, 5 December 2006
Bills
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Lord James of Blackheath | 688 c177GC (Link to this contribution) I was going to say that the Minister made a passing reference to a very important point raised by th...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 688 c219GC (Link to this contribution) Does the noble and learned Lord accept that there is a relationship between policy, resources and is...

Show all contributions (98)
Lord Wedderburn of Charlton | 688 c208GC (Link to this contribution) I said that the Government have not advanced a satisfactory justification and I do not think that an...
Lord Razzall | 688 c206GC (Link to this contribution) I shall speak to Amendments Nos. 90 and 91 in my name and that of my noble friend Lord Lee. The nobl...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 688 c182-5GC (Link to this contribution) In our previous debate, we considered the general proposal to set out certain categories of relevant...
Lord Lyell of Markyate | 688 c180GC (Link to this contribution) I think that we are getting there; the Minister will probably tell me that he is going to give us a ...
Lord James of Blackheath | 688 c180GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister has answered the point with such clarity that I can only ask that a similar clarity be ...
Lord Wedderburn of Charlton | 688 c177GC (Link to this contribution) I think that the noble Lord’s request to withdraw the amendment should be accepted by the Committee....
Lord Razzall | 688 c178GC (Link to this contribution) With regret, yes, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Lord Tordoff | 688 c178GC (Link to this contribution) Does the noble Lord wish to withdraw the amendment?
Lord Davidson of Glen Clova | 688 c224-5GC (Link to this contribution) First, I should clarify that—treating it as an example without any particular facts or employer and ...
Lord Lee of Trafford | 688 c226GC (Link to this contribution) I am a little reluctant to intrude into what is obviously a rather personal debate. I am sure that w...
Lord Davidson of Glen Clova | 688 c220-4GC (Link to this contribution) This debate is framed by the wider question of the position of public bodies under the Bill, and I w...
Lord Lyell of Markyate | 688 c220GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord. What he says arises in part from the point that the noble and learn...
Lord Lyell of Markyate | 688 c218-9GC (Link to this contribution) I support Amendment No. 37. I have listened carefully to the arguments on Amendment No. 36 but, like...
Lord Wedderburn of Charlton | 688 c216-7GC (Link to this contribution) Does it also not follow from what has been said so interestingly by noble and learned Lords about Sc...
Lord Davidson of Glen Clova | 688 c213GC (Link to this contribution) I regret that I do not have that figure to hand. Certainly more have been taken than have resulted i...
Lord Lloyd of Berwick | 688 c209GC (Link to this contribution) I am not opposing anything that the noble Lord is saying. I merely wish to understand the Explanator...
Lord Wedderburn of Charlton | 688 c209-10GC (Link to this contribution) Why Clause 16 is in the Bill is for others to explain. I am saying that it cannot remain there if my...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 688 c203-4GC (Link to this contribution) I completely agree. Some years ago, I was one of the senior Whips, and I know that the most effectiv...
Baroness Turner of Camden | 688 c205GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 34: 34: After Clause 2, insert the following new Clause— ““Offence by senior m...
Lord Clinton-Davis | 688 c208GC (Link to this contribution) Does the noble Lord agree—I am sure that he does—that the Joint Committee specifically recommended e...
Lord Clinton-Davis | 688 c201GC (Link to this contribution) Would it not be right, following a debate that has not been party political at all, for the Minister...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 688 c201GC (Link to this contribution) Before the Minister responds to that important point, may I add in support of the noble Lord, Lord R...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 688 c185GC (Link to this contribution) Of course, I do not think that it was unduly offensive—it was a proper question. In responding to th...
Lord Wedderburn of Charlton | 688 c171GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment No. 32, which is part of this group, illustrates a point that is, in a sense, supplementar...
Lord Lyell of Markyate | 688 c175GC (Link to this contribution) As the Minister knows, some of us have anxiety about the structure of the Bill, as the Government ha...
Lord Razzall | 688 c176-7GC (Link to this contribution) I have listened with interest to the Government’s position, as set out by the Minister. This is real...
Lord Razzall | 688 c180-1GC (Link to this contribution) I, too, will read with interest what the Minister has said. The noble Lord, Lord James, is trying, q...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 688 c181GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 24: 24: Clause 2, page 2, line 19, at end insert— ““(aa) a duty to members of ...
Lord Razzall | 688 c178GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 23: 23: Clause 2, page 2, leave out lines 17 to 29 and insert ““duties owed by...
Lord Tordoff | 688 c178GC (Link to this contribution) In calling the next amendment, I draw the Committee’s attention to the fact that, if it were agreed,...
Lord Davidson of Glen Clova | 688 c226GC (Link to this contribution) I regret that I must disappoint the noble and learned Lord in that I do not accept that the terms of...
Lord Lyell of Markyate | 688 c225-6GC (Link to this contribution) I apologise for coming back again, but we are on such a central issue that it is worth a minute or t...
Lord Henley | 688 c217-8GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord, Lord Lee of Trafford, for introducing Amendments Nos. 36 and 42 and for spea...
Lord Lee of Trafford | 688 c217GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 36: 36: Clause 3 , page 3, line 31, leave out subsection (1) The noble Lord s...
Lord Boyd of Duncansby | 688 c215GC (Link to this contribution) I should like to ask my noble and learned friend about the position in Scotland. One difficulty that...
Lord Davidson of Glen Clova | 688 c214-5GC (Link to this contribution) I am certainly in no position to gainsay those statistics. I will adhere to the undertaking to get t...
Baroness Turner of Camden | 688 c216GC (Link to this contribution) I thank all noble Lords who have participated in a very interesting debate. First, I say to my noble...
Lord Davidson of Glen Clova | 688 c215-6GC (Link to this contribution) I am obliged to my noble and learned friend Lord Boyd. He has particular experience of the complexit...
Baroness Gibson of Market Rasen | 688 c213GC (Link to this contribution) Can my noble and learned friend say how many cases have been taken over the past six years under the...
Baroness Gibson of Market Rasen | 688 c211GC (Link to this contribution) I support Amendments Nos. 34 and 35, which are in the names of my noble friends Lady Turner of Camde...
Lord Lloyd of Berwick | 688 c211GC (Link to this contribution) I am uncertain whether to support this amendment or not. Paragraph 54 of the Explanatory Notes seems...
Lord Davidson of Glen Clova | 688 c212-3GC (Link to this contribution) The amendments in this group plainly address the position of individuals. The Government certainly s...
Lord Clinton-Davis | 688 c203GC (Link to this contribution) That is exactly what I wanted to emphasise. My suggestion has been ruled out by my noble friend. Am ...
Lord Lee of Trafford | 688 c204GC (Link to this contribution) Would the noble Lord acknowledge and place on record that at Second Reading, in Committee and outsid...
Lord Wedderburn of Charlton | 688 c207-8GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment No. 92 is in this group, and I ask noble Lords to look at it because it takes a very conse...
Lord Lloyd of Berwick | 688 c199GC (Link to this contribution) On that last point, I understand that the Minister accepts that the prison authorities owe a duty un...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 688 c202GC (Link to this contribution) I am sorry, I disagree. We have moved a long way on Crown immunity; the Bill makes a fundamental shi...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 688 c202GC (Link to this contribution) It is tempting to be mightily impressive, but I cannot oblige the noble Lord. The Government have go...
Lord Wedderburn of Charlton | 688 c195GC (Link to this contribution) It is impossible for me, sitting next to the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, not to want to add my voic...
Lord Lee of Trafford | 688 c189-90GC (Link to this contribution) My noble friend Lord Razzall suggested earlier that those who speak in this Committee should declare...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 688 c195-9GC (Link to this contribution) I am beginning to wish even more that the noble Baroness, Lady Scotland, was with us this afternoon,...
Lord Tordoff | 688 c169GC (Link to this contribution) I have, as usual, to make the statement that if there is a Division in the Chamber when we are sitti...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 688 c171-5GC (Link to this contribution) Before I respond to the noble Lord, Lord Razzall, I shall start with an apology and a welcome. My no...
Lord Wedderburn of Charlton | 688 c175-6GC (Link to this contribution) May I raise one small point which is meant to be helpful to the Government? The Minister has set out...
Lord Lyell of Markyate | 688 c185GC (Link to this contribution) Before my noble friend considers withdrawing the amendment, I am getting worried. Can the Minister i...
Lord Razzall | 688 c181GC (Link to this contribution) I included you in the magnificent six.
Lord Lyell of Markyate | 688 c182GC (Link to this contribution) I think that we are getting there, and I am looking forward to hearing the answer. It is clear that ...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 688 c181-2GC (Link to this contribution) I am also a partner in Beachcroft LLP and am as committed as the noble Lord, Lord Razzall, is to pre...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 688 c178GC (Link to this contribution) One theme that has run through the contributions that have been made in Committee is the importance ...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 688 c179-80GC (Link to this contribution) If the Committee will indulge us, we will give some further thought to the points raised by the nobl...
Lord Tordoff | 688 c177GC (Link to this contribution) We are in Committee and Members of the Committee can speak until the amendment is withdrawn. I have ...
Lord Davidson of Glen Clova | 688 c225GC (Link to this contribution) The fault is doubtless mine. At the beginning of my response, I sought to set out the basis on which...
Lord Lyell of Markyate | 688 c225GC (Link to this contribution) It may give clarity to other Members of the Committee, but I am a bit stupid and it does not give co...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 688 c226GC (Link to this contribution) It may be a convenient moment for the Committee to adjourn until Wednesday 17 January at 3.45 pm.
Lord Lyell of Markyate | 688 c224GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble and learned Lord but I should be even more grateful if he could clarify o...
Lord Wedderburn of Charlton | 688 c219-20GC (Link to this contribution) Does the noble and learned Lord, Lord Lyell, think that there is perhaps a slight danger in removing...
Lord Lyell of Markyate | 688 c219GC (Link to this contribution) Yes, but that is not a good enough answer. Of course there is a relationship. If the Cabinet decides...
Baroness Turner of Camden | 688 c217GC (Link to this contribution) I thank my noble friend for that interjection. Quite frankly, as my noble and learned friend will un...
Lord Hoyle | 688 c213GC (Link to this contribution) If my noble and learned friend does not have the information to hand, could he let us have it?
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 688 c213-4GC (Link to this contribution) It may assist the Minister to know that over the past 10 years, there have been only seven successfu...
Lord Lloyd of Berwick | 688 c208GC (Link to this contribution) I am following the argument of the noble Lord very closely, but I am unable to understand how the Ex...
Lord Henley | 688 c211GC (Link to this contribution) After the near unanimity on the previous amendment, the Minister may be grateful that we on these Be...
Lord Clinton-Davis | 688 c210-1GC (Link to this contribution) I argued at Second Reading for a different sort of liability attaching to directors, but my noble fr...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 688 c202-3GC (Link to this contribution) This has been a very disappointing response from the Minister, and we should take a moment to explor...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 688 c204-5GC (Link to this contribution) I would not like to designate the Minister as zero, but he will recognise that he has not had many f...
Lord Hoyle | 688 c206-7GC (Link to this contribution) The amendment is in my name as well as that of my noble friend Lady Turner. I declare an interest; n...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 688 c199GC (Link to this contribution) In terms of prisons providing a duty as occupier, prisoners in custody are not included. That is the...
Lord Ramsbotham | 688 c200-1GC (Link to this contribution) I am glad that the noble and learned Lord, Lord Lyell, has introduced the subject of money. I was di...
Lord Razzall | 688 c199GC (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Lord sits down, I have listened with great interest to what he has said. I will rea...
Lord Lyell of Markyate | 688 c199-200GC (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Lord sits down, I am afraid to say that what I feared would happen has happened. Th...
Lord Lyell of Markyate | 688 c193-4GC (Link to this contribution) In the light of the powerful speeches by my noble friend Lord Hunt and the noble Lord, Lord Lee, and...
Lord Lloyd of Berwick | 688 c194GC (Link to this contribution) Members of the Committee will have noticed that on Thursday, at our first sitting, I found it very d...
Baroness Howe of Idlicote | 688 c194-5GC (Link to this contribution) I support all the amendments, especially having listened to the speeches made by all the noble Lords...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 688 c185GC (Link to this contribution) I share my noble and learned friend’s disquiet about the present situation, but we will consider car...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 688 c186GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 26: 26: Clause 2, page 2, line 29, at end insert— ““(d) a duty owed to anyone ...
Lord Ramsbotham | 688 c190-3GC (Link to this contribution) I am extremely grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Hunt of Wirral, for introducing the amendments and e...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 688 c170-1GC (Link to this contribution) I look forward to hearing the response of the Minister to this group of amendments. It is helpful to...
Lord Razzall | 688 c169GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 22: 22: Clause 2, page 2, line 16, after ““any”” insert ““duty imposed on it b...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 688 c175GC (Link to this contribution) The noble and learned Lord is both right and wrong. The offence is not strictly limited to employer ...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 688 c176GC (Link to this contribution) Ministers always think about things again and again; noble Lords such as the noble Lord, Lord Wedder...

Subjects

Contracts
Breach of contract
Children in care
Detainees
Death
Companies
Directors
Crown immunity
Custodial treatment
Corporate manslaughter
Inspections
Liability
Health and safety
Exemptions
Government departments
Mental illness
Prosecutions
Prisoners
Prisons
Management
Public bodies
Staff
Negligence
Safety
Suicide

Legislation

Corporate Manslaughter and Corporate Homicide Bill 2005-06 to 2006-07

Link

View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk
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