Corporate Manslaughter and Corporate Homicide Bill

I completely agree. Some years ago, I was one of the senior Whips, and I know that the most effective way to change a Government’s mind is for their own Back-Benchers and Members to argue the case. When I was a Minister, I hope that I was always available to hear from my own side and from all sides when they felt strongly on a particular issue. I am not advocating mutiny or rebellion but, on this non-party-political issue where the will of Parliament is at the core of the debate, it would be very useful for Members of both Houses who feel strongly about this to make their views known. We have had a lengthy debate, because this is a key issue. We have had briefings from Justice and Liberty. The noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, made a memorable speech that drew on his considerable experience and expertise. He referred to the briefing from the Prison Reform Trust, which pointed out that the other mechanisms to which the Minister referred, such as the role of the Prisons and Probation Ombudsman, are not on a statutory footing. It is also recognised that inquests can provide a verdict and the coroner can suggest remedial measures under Rule 43 of the Coroners’ Rules 1984, but those recommendations have no binding effect. Issues such as that make us feel that there is a gap in the law. It is equally persuasive that a number of other bodies, such as private companies running prisons or custody suites, including those that have been mentioned to us, would be exempt. The whole question of custody becomes an overarching issue that applies not only to the public but the private sector. I hope that I made a persuasive case, and I will seek to do so again. I thank noble Lords who spoke in this debate. I anticipate that my noble and learned friend Lord Lyell will be returning to this issue on each amendment where we have this area of uncertainty between the public and private sectors. I want to think about some of the points made by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Lloyd, about whether there would already be application under Clause 2. The noble Lords, Lord Lee and Lord Razzall, also made a persuasive case, and the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, made an outstanding speech. The noble Baroness, Lady Howe, added to the persuasive nature, as did the noble Lord, Lord Wedderburn. I hope that the intervention from the Back Benches of my good friend and solicitor colleague, the noble Lord, Lord Clinton-Davis, who has great experience of being a Minister, will add to the persuasive nature of this debate so far as the Government are concerned.