UK Parliament / Open data

Defence Reform Bill

Debate on bills on Tuesday, 16 July 2013, in the House of Commons, led by Lord Hammond of Runnymede and Philip Dunne. The answering members were Jim Murphy and Alison Seabeck.
Second reading agreed to on question. Programme motion agreed to on question. Money resolution agreed to, with Queen's recommendation signified.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

566 cc957-1023 

Session

2013-14

Department

Ministry of Defence

Legislative stage

Second reading

Chamber / Committee

House of Commons chamber
Defence acquisition. Defence Committee seventh report with formal minutes and written evidence.
Tuesday, 29 January 2013
Parliamentary committees
House of Commons
Defence acquisition: Government response to the Committee's seventh report of session 2012-13. Defence Committee first special report.
Wednesday, 8 May 2013
Parliamentary committees
House of Commons
Defence Reform Bill 2013-14
Wednesday, 3 July 2013
Bills
House of Commons
Defence Reform Bill
Thursday, 11 July 2013
Research briefings

Proceeding contributions

Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 566 c957 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time.

The defence of the United Kingdom a...

Jim Murphy | 566 c957 (Link to this contribution)

I wish to respond not to the Secretary of State’s discordant point but to address his earlier com...


Show all contributions (117)
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 566 c957 (Link to this contribution)

I understand that the right hon. Gentleman desires to get to the bottom of this matter—as do we a...

John Baron | 566 c957 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. Friend talked, quite rightly, about the first duty of government, but he will be aw...

Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 566 c958 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend’s view on this matter is well known. Two weeks ago the Government set out robust p...

Nick Smith | 566 c958 (Link to this contribution)

Will the Secretary of State give way?

Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 566 c958 (Link to this contribution)

I will take one more intervention and then I must make some progress.

Nick Smith | 566 c958 (Link to this contribution)

Will the Secretary of State tell the House the annual recruitment targets for reservists for each...

Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 566 c958 (Link to this contribution)

I suspect the hon. Gentleman is referring to figures that were put in the public domain last year...

Kate Green | 566 c958 (Link to this contribution)

I am glad that the Secretary of State is about to expand on procurement. Will he confirm that in ...

Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 566 cc959-960 (Link to this contribution)

The Government have a focused initiative to increase participation of small and medium-sized ente...

Peter Luff | 566 c960 (Link to this contribution)

I am most grateful to my right hon. Friend for his compelling speech and for giving way. May I as...

Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 566 c960 (Link to this contribution)

We expect to reach a decision point in the commercial process next spring. If we go down the rout...

Tobias Ellwood | 566 c960 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the Secretary of State for explaining what is happening with the GoCo. A number ...

Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 566 c960 (Link to this contribution)

The proposition is that a GoCo would be a UK-registered and domiciled company paying its taxes in...

Gerald Howarth | 566 c960 (Link to this contribution)

The Secretary of State will be aware that there are concerns among those in industry that their i...

Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 566 c960 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my hon. Friend, who will have thought very carefully about these matters. Of cou...

Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston | 566 c960 (Link to this contribution)

On a similar theme, what have been the discussions with the United States about the transfer of c...

Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 566 cc960-1 (Link to this contribution)

I shall talk about confidential information later in my speech. DE&S has access to certain confid...

Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston | 566 c961 (Link to this contribution)

The Secretary of State might address point this later, but how does he envisage that the GoCo wil...

Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 566 cc961-4 (Link to this contribution)

The Secretary of State will remain accountable to Parliament, but we expect that the GoCo will ha...

Julian Brazier | 566 c964 (Link to this contribution)

The framework being described by my right hon. Friend is largely welcome, but it seems odd that i...

Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 566 c964 (Link to this contribution)

I assure my hon. Friend that the arrangements for our relationship with the GoCo, which will be l...

Gerald Howarth | 566 c964 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the Secretary of State because he has given way many times. Before he turns to t...

Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 566 cc964-5 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend knows well, because he was a Minister at the time, that we made a commitment that ...

Helen Goodman | 566 c965 (Link to this contribution)

I asked the Secretary of State a parliamentary written question because the centre in Bishop Auck...

Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 566 c965 (Link to this contribution)

I do not know whether the hon. Lady was in the House for my statement on the reserves. If she thi...

Bob Stewart | 566 c965 (Link to this contribution)

This is just a small point, but I recall that the Territorial Army was deployed to the 1st Britis...

Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 566 cc965-6 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The role of the Territorial Army has evolved and it will evol...

Lord Arbuthnot of Edrom | 566 c966 (Link to this contribution)

I am delighted with what my right hon. Friend has just said. Will he consider, among the further ...

Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 566 cc966-7 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend. That example fits exactly into the category of discriminat...

Jim Murphy | 566 cc967-8 (Link to this contribution)

Like the whole House, I listened intently to the Secretary of State’s necessarily detailed analys...

Lord Arbuthnot of Edrom | 566 c968 (Link to this contribution)

I am delighted with the right hon. Gentleman’s tone. I do not want to put words in his mouth, but...

Jim Murphy | 566 c968 (Link to this contribution)

The right hon. Gentleman anticipates my point entirely. We wish to see reform. It is difficult to...

Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 566 c969 (Link to this contribution)

I am happy to clarify that point. As the right hon. Gentleman knows, we are in the process of dev...

Jim Murphy | 566 c969 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Secretary of State for that genuinely helpful intervention. In Committee, we will hav...

Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 566 c969 (Link to this contribution)

I apologise for intervening on the right hon. Gentleman again, but that is exactly the point: the...

Jim Murphy | 566 c969 (Link to this contribution)

We are looking for a level playing field and a level negotiating table—if a metaphor it is—becaus...

Lindsay Hoyle | 566 c969 (Link to this contribution)

I think it has always been the case for you, Mr Murphy.

Jim Murphy | 566 c969 (Link to this contribution)

You know me well, Mr Deputy Speaker. Since we were serious, we have always said—[Hon. Members: “O...

Lord Walney | 566 c970 (Link to this contribution)

If you will permit me for a moment to continue straying off the topic slightly, Mr Deputy Speaker...

Lindsay Hoyle | 566 c970 (Link to this contribution)

Order. May I suggest to the hon. Gentleman that he should try to hold back his speech for tomorro...

Jim Murphy | 566 c970 (Link to this contribution)

I take your strictures about our not using the speeches we intend to give tomorrow, Mr Deputy Spe...

Martin Horwood | 566 c970 (Link to this contribution)

The right hon. Gentleman must understand and be accurate in his descriptions. This was not a Libe...

Lindsay Hoyle | 566 c970 (Link to this contribution)

Order. We are in danger of running tomorrow’s debate today. I do not want to do that; I want to g...

Jim Murphy | 566 cc970-1 (Link to this contribution)

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. To be fair to the hon. Member for Cheltenham (Martin Horwood), it w...

Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 566 c971 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman but I was not aware that I had not explained the situat...

Jim Murphy | 566 cc971-2 (Link to this contribution)

That is a kind offer from the Secretary of State, although he could have done so off his own back...

Tobias Ellwood | 566 c972 (Link to this contribution)

I echo the tone adopted by the shadow Secretary of State, but I am concerned by his direction of ...

Jim Murphy | 566 c972 (Link to this contribution)

That would be a very fair point if it was based on a fact. I suspect that our conversation today ...

Tobias Ellwood | 566 c972 (Link to this contribution)

I did not mention the Regular Army, but the TA. When Labour came to power in 1997, TA numbers wer...

Jim Murphy | 566 c972 (Link to this contribution)

My point is that in the same context, Regular Army numbers increased. I do not want us to bat eac...

Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 566 c973 (Link to this contribution)

Will the right hon. Gentleman clarify two points? Does he accept that the six-month cancellation ...

Jim Murphy | 566 cc973-4 (Link to this contribution)

As the Secretary of State knows, the previous decision on training was based on the recommendatio...

Lord Arbuthnot of Edrom | 566 cc974-6 (Link to this contribution)

I echo what was said by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State about the quality of our arme...

Madeleine Moon | 566 c976 (Link to this contribution)

I am not sure whether the right hon. Gentleman is about to mention how the GoCo will affect curre...

Lord Arbuthnot of Edrom | 566 c976 (Link to this contribution)

As I have said before, the hon. Lady performs a valuable service on the Defence Select Committee....

Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 566 c976 (Link to this contribution)

Perhaps I can help my right hon. Friend. The expectation is that the competitive process will be ...

Lord Arbuthnot of Edrom | 566 c977 (Link to this contribution)

Oh, good. One problem is that the date for the invitations to negotiate has already slipped. That...

Peter Luff | 566 c977 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. Friend is making an important point. I hope that when the Minister winds up the deb...

Lord Arbuthnot of Edrom | 566 cc977-8 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend, as a former Minister responsible for defence procurement, has a great deal of exp...

Dai Havard | 566 cc978-9 (Link to this contribution)

Obviously, I have spent some time on the Defence Committee, along with the Chairman and others. W...

Madeleine Moon | 566 c979 (Link to this contribution)

I recognise my hon. Friend’s expertise in this area. The exercise has been carried out in the bea...

Dai Havard | 566 cc979-980 (Link to this contribution)

I agree entirely. There is also the question of what people are required to do. There is some des...

Julian Brazier | 566 cc980-1 (Link to this contribution)

I follow the Secretary of State, the shadow Secretary of State and others in paying tribute to th...

Peter Luff | 566 c981 (Link to this contribution)

I think that I can reassure my hon. Friend on that point. The risk he identifies exists already. ...

Julian Brazier | 566 c981 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend’s point is well taken, and I support the concept of the GoCo, but the plain fact i...

Julian Brazier | 566 c981 (Link to this contribution)

If my hon. Friend will forgive me, I will move on to the main burden of what I want to say today,...

Peter Luff | 566 c981 (Link to this contribution)

I think that I can offer further reassurance. All employees in sensitive areas of DE&S will be re...

Julian Brazier | 566 cc981-2 (Link to this contribution)

If the sensitive areas were for UK eyes only, that is a protection normally for intellectual prop...

Bob Stewart | 566 c982 (Link to this contribution)

I totally understand and accept the majority of what my hon. Friend is saying, but to compare us ...

Julian Brazier | 566 c983 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend has been misinformed about that. An impressive airborne cavalry unit that I visite...

Thomas Docherty | 566 c983 (Link to this contribution)

I am slightly confused by the excellent answer that the hon. Gentleman gave to the hon. Member fo...

Julian Brazier | 566 cc983-5 (Link to this contribution)

They have almost exactly the same total span as us—basically, 12 months. Unlike us, they typicall...

Iain Wright | 566 cc985-6 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Canterbury (Mr Brazier), who is respected in all p...

Madeleine Moon | 566 c986 (Link to this contribution)

I agree with every point that my hon. Friend has made so far. One area that he has not addressed ...

Iain Wright | 566 cc987-8 (Link to this contribution)

The question of accountability is important, and I seem to remember that my hon. Friend mentioned...

Peter Luff | 566 cc988-9 (Link to this contribution)

I am provoked by the speech from the hon. Member for Hartlepool (Mr Wright) and tempted to tear u...

Thomas Docherty | 566 c989 (Link to this contribution)

Standing in for my hon. Friend the Member for North Durham (Mr Jones), let me challenge this poin...

Peter Luff | 566 cc989-990 (Link to this contribution)

I do not want to get bogged down, but I agree that the £38 billion figure depends on the assumpti...

Julian Brazier | 566 c990 (Link to this contribution)

I do not make interventions like this very often, but my hon. Friend is being too bloody modest—e...

Peter Luff | 566 cc990-4 (Link to this contribution)

I am most grateful to my hon. Friend. I am very proud indeed to have been part of the team that a...

Thomas Docherty | 566 cc993-7 (Link to this contribution)

Let me begin by following up on the point made by the hon. Member for Mid Worcestershire (Peter L...

Julian Brazier | 566 c995 (Link to this contribution)

Sweden, a country of just 8 million people, developed its own fast jet fighter. Its defence indus...

Thomas Docherty | 566 c995 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman; he has made that point about Sweden to the Defence Committee...

Penny Mordaunt | 566 cc995-8 (Link to this contribution)

I draw the House’s attention to my interest as a member of the reserve forces. I should like to s...

Bob Stewart | 566 c998 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my hon. and gallant Friend for letting me speak. As a company commander, I very nearly lo...

Penny Mordaunt | 566 cc998-1000 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful for my hon. and gallant Friend’s intervention, as his experience in this matter wil...

Julian Brazier | 566 c1000 (Link to this contribution)

I hate to interrupt my hon. Friend’s compelling speech, but may I suggest that she could not poss...

Penny Mordaunt | 566 c1000 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is absolutely right that the proposal would be a good idea for the Royal Navy and ...

Stephen Doughty | 566 cc1000-2 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. and gallant Member for Portsmouth North (Penny Mordaunt), who...

Dai Havard | 566 c1002 (Link to this contribution)

Before my hon. Friend moves on to the particulars of the people being recruited, does he agree th...

Stephen Doughty | 566 cc1002-3 (Link to this contribution)

I absolutely agree. There are some real questions that must be asked. Other significant changes a...

Martin Horwood | 566 cc1003-6 (Link to this contribution)

This has been a constructive and positive debate, and I am happy to follow the hon. Member for Ca...

Tobias Ellwood | 566 cc1006-7 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to be the tail-end Charlie in this important Second Reading debate. I begin, as ...

Bob Stewart | 566 c1007 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my hon. and gallant Friend for allowing me to intervene. I was a staff officer in the Min...

Lindsay Hoyle | 566 c1007 (Link to this contribution)

Order. We need short interventions, not major speeches at this stage. I am sure that the question...

Bob Stewart | 566 c1007 (Link to this contribution)

There is no question; it is a statement. We have not got the solution and we will still have a pr...

Tobias Ellwood | 566 c1007 (Link to this contribution)

I am very grateful for that statement. My hon. Friend makes an important point. A concern that da...

Thomas Docherty | 566 c1007 (Link to this contribution)

Will the hon. Gentleman give way, then?

Tobias Ellwood | 566 c1007 (Link to this contribution)

Let me finish this point about the Typhoon; then I will be delighted to give way. Unlike other ai...

Thomas Docherty | 566 c1008 (Link to this contribution)

My concern is that, as the tail-end batsman, the hon. Gentleman is bringing a level of partisansh...

Lindsay Hoyle | 566 c1008 (Link to this contribution)

Order. I might be able to help everybody. I know that Mr Ellwood is going to discuss the Bill and...

Tobias Ellwood | 566 c1008 (Link to this contribution)

I accept your guidance, Mr Deputy Speaker, so I will not mention the AirTanker project or the fac...

Lindsay Hoyle | 566 c1008 (Link to this contribution)

Order. We are going to discuss the Bill. We are not going to keep going back in time, as much as ...

Tobias Ellwood | 566 cc1008-9 (Link to this contribution)

Again, I am grateful for your guidance, Mr Deputy Speaker.

If I may, I will talk about the ...

Lindsay Hoyle | 566 c1009 (Link to this contribution)

Order. I do not think that DFID is relevant to the Bill. I have allowed a little leeway, but I am...

Tobias Ellwood | 566 cc1009-1010 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful for your guidance, Mr Deputy Speaker. I shall come to a conclusion.

The Bill ...

Alison Seabeck | 566 c1010 (Link to this contribution)

I draw the House’s attention to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests.

T...

Alison Seabeck | 566 c1011 (Link to this contribution)

Yes, perhaps not even half-baked.

The hon. Member for Cheltenham made some valuable points ...

Alison Seabeck | 566 cc1011-3 (Link to this contribution)

No, I will not; I will carry on, if the hon. Gentleman will bear with me. He has had more than hi...

Philip Dunne | 566 cc1012-7 (Link to this contribution)

Let me start by adding my sympathies to those expressed to the families of the two reservists who...

Philip Dunne | 566 cc1017-8 (Link to this contribution)

West Fife—my apologies. The hon. Gentleman touched on the need to maintain research and developme...

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