UK Parliament / Open data

Corporate Manslaughter and Corporate Homicide Bill

Debate on bills and Committee proceeding on Wednesday, 17 January 2007, in the House of Lords.
Corporate Manslaughter and Corporate Homicide Bill. Lords Committee stage third day. Grand Committee off the floor of the House (Moses room). Clauses 4-8 agreed to, clause 6 as amended. New clauses considered.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

688 c227-80GC 

Session

2006-07

Department

Home Office

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Procedure

New clauses

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords Grand Committee

Related items

Corporate Manslaughter and Corporate Homicide Bill. Brought from the Commons. Explanatory Notes HL Bill 19-En also published.
Tuesday, 5 December 2006
Bills
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Lord Bassam of Brighton | 688 c270-1GC (Link to this contribution) I am not keen to extend this debate much further because I am not sure that there is a great deal of...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 688 c269GC (Link to this contribution) There is not a great deal to add. The comments of the noble and learned Lords, Lord Lyell and Lord L...

Show all contributions (102)
Lord Davidson of Glen Clova | 688 c255-6GC (Link to this contribution) The amendments in this group once again seek to test the Government’s thinking behind amendments mad...
Lord Clinton-Davis | 688 c251GC (Link to this contribution) I readily agree with much of what has been said, but will my noble and learned friend comment on the...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 688 c231GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 45: 45: Clause 4 , page 4, line 32, at end insert— ““(5) This section shall no...
Lord Boyd of Duncansby | 688 c232GC (Link to this contribution) In 1940 very many would-be pilots never actually made it to the Battle of Britain because, sadly, th...
Earl of Mar and Kellie | 688 c233GC (Link to this contribution) This amendment could help the senior military officers who ultimately have to advise the Government ...
Lord Henley | 688 c242GC (Link to this contribution) I am sorry that the noble Lord cannot offer me much more succour on this amendment. My point was tha...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 688 c272-4GC (Link to this contribution) Despite what the noble Lord, Lord James, says, Clause 8 is designed to assist jurors in assessing wh...
Lord Henley | 688 c266GC (Link to this contribution) As I said, I think there are difficulties here, and certainly following the response of the noble Lo...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 688 c261-4GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Cotter, for his comments, which I am sure were heartfelt. They...
Lord Cotter | 688 c264GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his response. I also thank the noble Lord, Lord Henley, for his support for...
Lord Lloyd of Berwick | 688 c268GC (Link to this contribution) If it is any comfort to the noble Lord, I cannot imagine any circumstances in which trustees could b...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 688 c268GC (Link to this contribution) I suspect there is probably quite a short answer to the noble Lord’s point. I am grateful to him for...
Lord Lloyd of Berwick | 688 c270GC (Link to this contribution) I made that point some two days ago. I wish that the Minister would abandon that explanation because...
Lord Davidson of Glen Clova | 688 c251-3GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Hunt of Wirral, seeks to overturn an amendment made in another place by the Gov...
Lord Davidson of Glen Clova | 688 c254GC (Link to this contribution) Since, I gather, I am no longer recumbent, with great diffidence I submit that I would not wish to m...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 688 c254-5GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Earl, Lord Mar and Kellie, put his finger on the key to why I raised these points. The nob...
Countess of Mar | 688 c255GC (Link to this contribution) Noble Lords might find it helpful if I point out that they have no need to say, ““Before the Ministe...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 688 c259GC (Link to this contribution) moved AmendmentNo. 70: 70: Clause 6 , page 6, line 26, leave out paragraph (a) and insert— ““( ) a...
Lord Davidson of Glen Clova | 688 c258GC (Link to this contribution) We have no amendments concerning Scotland and Northern Ireland because the Bill as it stands is corr...
Lord Henley | 688 c257-8GC (Link to this contribution) I start by offering my congratulations to the noble and learned Lord, who is speaking on behalf of t...
Lord Henley | 688 c259GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble and learned Lord for that explanation and I beg leave to withdraw the ame...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 688 c258GC (Link to this contribution) moved AmendmentNo. 63: 63: Clause 6, page 5, line 44, leave out from ““arrangements”” to end of li...
Lord Cotter | 688 c246-7GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the fact that we have addressed this concern today. I thank the noble Lord, Lord H...
Lord Davidson of Glen Clova | 688 c246GC (Link to this contribution) In such an example, one would look at the individual liability of the driver. Reckless driving would...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 688 c245GC (Link to this contribution) I support the comments made by the noble Lord, Lord Cotter. If these amendments were to be accepted ...
Lord Cotter | 688 c244GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 58: 58: Clause 6 , page 5, line 27, leave out subsection (1) and insert— ““(1)...
Lord Henley | 688 c243GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord for that explanation. I have followed what he has said and I am more...
Lord Henley | 688 c242GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 51: 51: Clause 5 , page 4, line 43, leave out subsection (2) The noble Lord s...
Lord Henley | 688 c239-40GC (Link to this contribution) I was only 15 at the time. I think that neither the noble Lord nor I was there, but whether the nobl...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 688 c237-9GC (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to all those who have taken part in the debate. I agree in essence with the point...
Lord Boyd of Duncansby | 688 c237GC (Link to this contribution) This exemption, as I understand it—perhaps the Minister will confirm this—applies where law enforcem...
Lord Dear | 688 c237GC (Link to this contribution) I declare an interest as a serving police officer for more than 30 years; indeed, I served in the si...
Lord Davidson of Glen Clova | 688 c233-5GC (Link to this contribution) I have spoken at some length on the question of exempting the military in certain circumstances. The...
Lord Henley | 688 c235GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 46: 46: Clause 5, page 4, line 34, leave out subsection (1) and insert— ““(1) ...
Lord James of Blackheath | 688 c271-2GC (Link to this contribution) I apologise for two out of three. I have been critical of the guidelines for juries since we first c...
Lord Lee of Trafford | 688 c274GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 79: 79: Clause 8 , page 7, line 34, at end insert— ““( ) have regard to whethe...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 688 c277-8GC (Link to this contribution) Of course the amendments bear further reflection; they always do. We try to make sure that is the ca...
Lord Lyell of Markyate | 688 c277GC (Link to this contribution) I would ask the Minister to go on reflecting on this. I note his comment that the health and safety ...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 688 c278GC (Link to this contribution) That is a nice invitation from the noble Lord. I go back to the point that I made earlier, that ther...
Lord Henley | 688 c264GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 74: 74: Clause 7 , page 7, line 1, leave out ““Parts 4 and 5 of”” The noble L...
Lord James of Blackheath | 688 c268GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that response. In the spirit of that response, will the Minister consider includin...
Lord James of Blackheath | 688 c271GC (Link to this contribution) I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. Clause 8 [Factors for jury]...
Lord James of Blackheath | 688 c270GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Wedderburn, for his helpful comments. Will the Minister look b...
Lord Lyell of Markyate | 688 c268-9GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord James, has made a very interesting point. I am not sure whether we should be to...
Lord Henley | 688 c255GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 60: 60: Clause 6 , page 5, line 35, after ““circumstances”” insert ““(or circu...
Lord Davidson of Glen Clova | 688 c254GC (Link to this contribution) If I may answer this way, the exemption does not extend to medical treatment, which I understand is ...
Lord Wedderburn of Charlton | 688 c254GC (Link to this contribution) As, theoretically, the noble and learned Lord is still in a semi-recumbent posture, I will ask him a...
Lord Henley | 688 c256GC (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to the noble and learned Lord for his explanation of the amendments. I beg leave ...
Lord Henley | 688 c258GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 64: 64: Clause 6, page 6, line 1, leave out subsections (3) and (4) The noble...
Lord Davidson of Glen Clova | 688 c245-6GC (Link to this contribution) The amendments spoken to by the noble Lord, Lord Cotter, standing in the name of the noble Lord, Lor...
Earl of Mar and Kellie | 688 c251GC (Link to this contribution) I am tempted to move that the Grand Committee adjourn for the very purposes the noble Lord, Lord Wed...
Countess of Mar | 688 c249GC (Link to this contribution) If Amendment No. 59 is agreed to, I cannot call Amendment No. 60 because of pre-emption.
Baroness Turner of Camden | 688 c227GC (Link to this contribution) If there is a Division in the Chamber while we are sitting, the Committee will adjourn as soon as th...
Lord Lee of Trafford | 688 c227GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 44: 44: Clause 4 , page 4, line 12, leave out ““in preparation for, or”” The ...
Lord Lee of Trafford | 688 c231GC (Link to this contribution) I am sorry that the Minister seems to have been unable or unwilling to differentiate between the exa...
Lord Davidson of Glen Clova | 688 c228-31GC (Link to this contribution) I have noted the concerns expressed in this brief debate, both on the specific question of preparato...
Lord Ramsbotham | 688 c232-3GC (Link to this contribution) I again declare an interest as a former military officer. I sympathise entirely with the views of th...
Lord Henley | 688 c244GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord for that assurance. Again, I thank him for explaining what the amend...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 688 c244GC (Link to this contribution) I think the noble Lord can take it as read that that would be the case.
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 688 c241-2GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I should apologise for the slightly truncated nature of my comments earlier. I was attemptin...
Earl of Mar and Kellie | 688 c236GC (Link to this contribution) Can the Minister explain whether the police are in any danger over deaths that result from hot-pursu...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 688 c235GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble and learned Lord, Lord Boyd, the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, and the nob...
Baroness Turner of Camden | 688 c236GC (Link to this contribution) If Amendment No. 46 is agreed to, I cannot call Amendments Nos. 47 to 50 by reason of pre-emption.
Lord Henley | 688 c271GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 78: 78: Clause 8 , page 7, line 30, leave out ““attitudes,”” The noble Lord s...
Lord Henley | 688 c274GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord for that response. I am not sure that we can take the matter much further. He...
Lord James of Blackheath | 688 c275-6GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister probably thought he had had enough of me for one afternoon. Amendment No. 79A is a refl...
Lord James of Blackheath | 688 c277GC (Link to this contribution) Does the Minster agree that the greatest enemy to the effective operation of this Bill would be inco...
Viscount Goschen | 688 c278GC (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Lord who moved the amendment winds up the debate, I ask the Minister whether, in re...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 688 c280GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Committee for the progress that we have made today. It may be a convenient mome...
Lord Henley | 688 c261GC (Link to this contribution) I do not intend to say much on the amendment, other than to offer my congratulations to the noble Lo...
Lord Cotter | 688 c260GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 72: 72: Clause 7 , page 6, line 42, leave out subsections (1) and (2) and inse...
Lord Henley | 688 c264-5GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness will have to take on other Home Office Bills, and no doubt the great legislative ...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 688 c265-6GC (Link to this contribution) We have had some useful detail on exemptions in this area. I shall try to speak as briefly as I can,...
Lord James of Blackheath | 688 c266GC (Link to this contribution) moved AmendmentNo. 76A: 76A: After Clause 7, insert the following new Clause— ““Trustees A duty of...
Lord Wedderburn of Charlton | 688 c270GC (Link to this contribution) Does the Minister agree with me that this amendment is extremely valuable in one sense, although I a...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 688 c253GC (Link to this contribution) Before the noble and learned Lord sits down, I ask again the question that I raised previously. Woul...
Earl of Mar and Kellie | 688 c258GC (Link to this contribution) This is a United Kingdom Bill and, as we have heard, the amendments talk about England and Wales. Wh...
Lord Davidson of Glen Clova | 688 c257GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 62: 62: Clause 6 , page 5, line 42, at end insert ““, or (ii) made with the Se...
Lord Davidson of Glen Clova | 688 c258-9GC (Link to this contribution) The amendments in this group seek to undo changes made by the Government to Clause 6 in response to ...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 688 c247GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 59: 59: Clause 6 , page 5, line 34, leave out paragraph (d) and insert— ““(d) ...
Earl of Mar and Kellie | 688 c246GC (Link to this contribution) Is there any danger that corporate manslaughter could be attributed to the employers of someone who ...
Lord Wedderburn of Charlton | 688 c249-51GC (Link to this contribution) I wonder if I may pose a few questions about the amendments. I may be quite wrong, but my impression...
Lord Davidson of Glen Clova | 688 c231GC (Link to this contribution) On and on they rode, but they did not ride into a position of corporate manslaughter. I submit that ...
Earl of Mar and Kellie | 688 c231GC (Link to this contribution) In this group, we are also considering whether the whole clause should stand part of the Bill. An ex...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 688 c228GC (Link to this contribution) From these Benches, we of course want to see the blanket exemption for military combat operations ma...
Lord Ramsbotham | 688 c228GC (Link to this contribution) As an ex-military man, I am entirely in sympathy with what the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, has said. We h...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 688 c243GC (Link to this contribution) I should express my gratitude to the noble Lord, Lord Henley, for that introduction because it provi...
Lord Henley | 688 c240GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 50: 50: Clause 5 , page 4, line 38, leave out paragraph (c) The noble Lord sa...
Lord Henley | 688 c239GC (Link to this contribution) I suppose that I ought to say that I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Bassam, for his comments, b...
Lord Ramsbotham | 688 c236GC (Link to this contribution) I have a small legal point. One part of law enforcement which impacts on the Prison Service that is ...
Lord Lyell of Markyate | 688 c272GC (Link to this contribution) I ask the Minister to think very carefully about the word ““attitude””. My noble friend Lord Henley ...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 688 c275GC (Link to this contribution) This is an eminently sensible amendment. I have no hesitation in supporting it. It would require a j...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 688 c275GC (Link to this contribution) We have already had some general discussion about how we see this clause working. Subsection (3) rei...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 688 c275GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister rose so quickly, he did not give my noble friend Lord James an opportunity to speak.
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 688 c276-7GC (Link to this contribution) I shall try to provide some clarity. I will not repeat what I started to say. In essence, we are ask...
Lord Lee of Trafford | 688 c279-80GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Viscount makes a very fair point. I accept that the word ““dedicated”” is probably not the...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 688 c278GC (Link to this contribution) Does the Minister agree that if the message from this Bill were to be that every organisation must a...

Subjects

Children
Conditions of employment
Accountability
Armed forces
Death
Directors
Deployment
Civilians
Corporate manslaughter
Defence equipment
Employment
Liability
Health and safety
Exemptions
Law and order
Emergency services
Immunity from prosecution
Local government
Protection
Police
Prosecutions
Negligence
Ministry of Defence
Training
Trusts

Legislation

Corporate Manslaughter and Corporate Homicide Bill 2005-06 to 2006-07

Link

View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk
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