Corporate Manslaughter and Corporate Homicide Bill

I again declare an interest as a former military officer. I sympathise entirely with the views of the noble Lord, Lord Lee, on includingthe failure to provide essential equipment, such as happened in the tragic case of Sergeant Roberts, who lacked a flak-jacket. This is a better point at whichto have that debate than when talking about preparation, which can be included in training. We all agree with that. I suspect that at the back of noble Lords’ minds are cases such as those at Deepcut, which we recently discussed. That was not operational training, preparation for operations or anything to do with equipment. I sympathise with the views expressed on equipment. I was in such a position when I took my company to Borneo in 1965. We were largely equipped from the streets of Singapore, where we bought equipment because it was stupid to go off into the jungle with our only bedding a large greatcoat with a hole in the middle, which had been designed to enable guardsmen to drill in the rain, and an army blanket that was so heavy that when it got wet—you always were wet in the jungle—that it was absolutely pointless having it. We ended up having 30lbs on our back as opposed to the 72lbs that we would have had to carry if we had taken the military equipment. That was not necessarily a failure on the part of the Government of the time; equipment was available which suited some places, but not Borneo. I can see the case for the amendment. I refer to circumstances where you cannot say, for example, that there is a front line. Everyone driving in Iraq may well need a flak-jacket because they may well come under fire. That is fine. However, I am a little concerned about including ““training”” in the measure because it is such a catch-all term. Pilot training in 1940 was mentioned. I call that operational training; therefore, to my mind, it does not qualify. I have been on exercises when soldiers were killed, many of them in traffic accidents and other incidents which you cannot really say represented a failure of ministerial responsibility. I am a touch worried about this. I agree with the sentiment of this provision; for example, the lack of a flak jacket for Sergeant Roberts was occasioned by the fact that the request for purchasing such equipment sat unsigned on the Secretary of State’s desk for up to six months. That suggests to me a failure of ministerial responsibility and culpability. If officials play a part, they have managerial responsibility, which seems to me to come entirely within the remit of the Bill. It would therefore be perverse in these occasions if the Ministry of Defence and such activities were excluded. But I have a slight hang-up about the question of training.