Policing and Crime Bill

I am delighted to see you in the Chair, Madam Deputy Speaker.

We oppose the Government’s pr...

Does the hon. Lady agree that the reason that the governance of the fire service needs to be chan...

My fire service is provided through the Greater London Authority, and I know that should I want t...

But they are not elected to a specific responsibility, as PCCs are. People who vote for PCCs know...

I say gently to the hon. Gentleman that the turnout last time for PCC elections was dismal. I hop...

I agree with everything my hon. Friend is saying. She knows—and surely the Government know—how mu...

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. There is really good collaboration now between all parts of o...

My hon. Friend is making some excellent points. Does she agree that this proposal, combined with ...

My hon. Friend is absolutely right about that, and I shall return to the point a little later in ...

I listened carefully to the quotations, and I would be chilled if any part of what was said were ...

But should a PCC take over the fire service, we would have a person in charge whose main attentio...

I do not quite understand—perhaps I do, but I do not think it is fair—why the shadow Minister is ...

First, they will not be equal partners, because we are talking about a big service and a small se...

The hon. Lady’s constituency is in London, where there is a Mayor, and the mayoral system will ta...

In London, the service is run by a Mayor and elected councillors. It is not run by an individual ...

Does the hon. Lady not accept that her comments could be interpreted by the police as quite insul...

The police I meet on my doorsteps and streets are dead pragmatic souls. They understand the sensi...

I believe that what one of my colleagues was trying to say from a sedentary position is that we s...

Is that right? When I was a Whip, I was taught that I should be seen and not heard. I am sure tha...

The hon. Lady has raised the interesting issue of a local referendum. I wonder whether she can te...

The referendum would take place on the same day as any local council election. We would not want ...

First, will the hon. Lady tell us what her amendment would do, and who would pay for it? Secondly...

One of the joys of being in opposition is that we have to do our own work ourselves; we do not ha...

I have sat patiently while, on a number of occasions, the hon. Lady has referred to elected counc...

I wonder what kind of interaction Conservative Members have with their local councillors, but I c...

I assume that this is entirely my mistake; I probably did not make my question clear enough, and ...

In London, as the hon. Gentleman knows, the people of Newham elect a GLA councillor and the GLA c...

Speaking as someone who was a councillor until this time last month, I bow to no one in my apprec...

I am bemused by the contempt that Conservative Members are showing for local councils. I hope for...

I would like to speak to amendment 2, which is in my name and those of several right hon. and hon...

Does my hon. Friend agree that, far from overlooking the attributes of our firefighters, it would...

I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention. This is about collaboration, and prevention extends ...

I rise to support new clause 20 in particular. I declare an interest as chair of the Fire Brigade...

I am sure that my hon. Friend would agree that this is frankly more about saving money than impro...

Absolutely; there is no doubt this is a cost-cutting exercise. I accept that these days everybody...

I call James Cleverly.

I am obliged to you for calling me, Madam Deputy Speaker, although I apologise if I leapt to my f...

I agree with the hon. Gentleman, in that my mailbox is full of matters such as housing. However, ...

I intend to deal a little later in my speech with some of the financial benefits that come with g...

I wish to bring my hon. Friend back to his point about how people may know the name of their chie...

My hon. Friend raises an important point, which goes to the heart of the fundamental change in th...

The hon. Member for Hornsey and Wood Green (Catherine West) spoke about cuts, but Cheshire’s PCC ...

I thank my hon. Friend for making that point, which reinforces one of my beliefs. We hear a lot o...

Does my hon. Friend share my incredulity at the Labour party’s talk about cuts, given that, if I ...

Rubbish!

It is on the record.

My view is that we judge people by what they say. I know that there will be indignation from Labo...

May I say to the hon. Member for Solihull (Julian Knight) who has just taken his place in this Ch...

Just before we proceed, may I say with great respect to the hon. Lady that, although she has many...

London’s exceptionalism is often held up as the reason why things that happen in London cannot po...

The hon. Gentleman is making some interesting arguments, but the problem that we have in the west...

That is a fair point. I have had a number of people talk to me about the speed with which police ...

Having spoken on Second Reading and served on the Bill Committee, it is a real pleasure to be her...

My hon. Friend is making a powerful case from personal experience. Does he agree that flexibility...

My hon. Friend makes my point very clearly. People should try to prevent flooding or loss of life...

The hon. Gentleman mentions the Minister with responsibility for floods. In the 1970s we had a Mi...

There is no drought in Lancashire, but if the hon. Gentleman wants me to come to Coventry to do t...

If a member of the public has a problem, are they no longer allowed to go to the police chief? Do...

There is nothing precluding people from writing to their local chief constable. As chief constabl...

My hon. Friend is making an excellent speech. I have a couple of observations. First, I was not h...

On the politicisation of the police force, that may have been driven by low turn-out. Even though...

The hon. Gentleman says that we need the highest possible turnout. Of course, historically turnou...

I have a lot of respect for the shadow Minister, but I think it is slightly disingenuous to say t...

Does my hon. Friend agree that that is absolutely the point of a police and crime commissioner: t...

I agree with my hon. Friend. Let me mention one of the best examples I know of a police and crime...

It is surprising what inspiration one can get when sitting in this place. I am delighted to speak...

I am sure my hon. Friend will agree that, when we go out and talk to our constituents, we see tha...

I am grateful to my hon. Friend, because that gives me the opportunity yet again to praise what t...

On a runway?

In case my hon. Friend misunderstands, let me say that they do these quite sophisticated training...

May I praise, as I did in Committee, the tone of the debate and the measured way in which it has ...

Friends of mine who are serving in the armed forces are finding it increasingly difficult to move...

This issue has been very close to my heart for some time. For instance, we have a real issue comi...

I am most grateful to the Minister for giving way. I think that he misunderstood me: I was not sa...

I understand where my hon. Friend is coming from. That is a bit of a different issue, and not par...

May I press my right hon. Friend on that point? Is it the Government’s intention to table amendme...

If I had had the clearance today, I would have supported amendment 2, but there are issues on whi...

I hope that the Minister will take the opportunity to deal with a point that I raised about the c...

That is exactly what will be proposed. This is not one size fits all, and it will not be imposed,...

To come back to my specific point about the clause, my question is: if this or a similar clause c...

It is vital that we get the title right and that there is a national title for those taking on th...

I have enormous sympathy with what my right hon. Friend is saying. It is absolutely clear that we...

I cannot do so because that is not part of the Bill. The Bill provides for agreements where they ...

Clearly, close collaboration is important not only for efficiency, but for the delivery of effect...

I have given categorical assurances in Committee and here that there will be two funding streams ...

I ask the Serjeant at Arms to investigate the delay in the Aye Lobby.

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Government new clause 32—Police v...

At this stage I will speak to the Government new clauses and amendment, and I will respond later ...

I understand perfectly what the Minister is trying to do here, but I am not sure that there is a ...

If the hon. Gentleman had been part of the Committee, he would have heard the extensive deliberat...

I am sure the Minister will give an affirmative answer to my question. Can she confirm to people ...

My hon. and gallant Friend makes an important point and I can assure him that appropriate trainin...

May I start by giving the apologies of the shadow Home Secretary, my right hon. Friend the Member...

My hon. Friend hits the nail on the head. Most people outside Parliament will see through this, b...

My hon. Friend is exactly right. In all the surveys of public opinion about the visibility of the...

I understand the point the hon. Gentleman is making, although I do not agree with him. Does he ac...

The problem is that the Government have failed to spell out how they will ensure that these volun...

The Labour-run Welsh Government have funded community support officers, who perform a very simila...

I am very familiar with what has happened in Wales. All credit to the Labour Government in the We...

I hope that the hon. Gentleman, for whom I have a great deal of respect, is not confusing reporte...

I agree that proper reporting and recording have been absolutely key—for example, in relation to ...

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that such crime was happening before but was not included in the cr...

If I agree that it should have been included in the past, I hope the Minister will agree that in ...

This is all very interesting, but surely the central point of the hon. Gentleman’s argument is th...

With the greatest respect, I would not downplay the significance of this, including to the public...

I am aware of the hon. Gentleman’s experience of south Wales and his knowledge of the cuts made t...

The interesting thing about what the hon. Lady says is that the current police funding formula sk...

I have been listening with deep fascination to the hon. Gentleman for the last 15 minutes or so, ...

Absolutely. Under the current arrangements in the police service, there is an agreement between t...

The hon. Gentleman needs to realise that he is walking into a cul-de-sac, which may not be of his...

It is quite right, for reasons that I will come to, that those amendments have been tabled, but t...

My hon. Friend is being generous in giving way. Does he not also suspect that, perhaps as an unin...

That is absolutely right. I will mention something similar in a moment. If we have volunteers—I a...

Forgive me; my experience is not with the police, but I know very well that the police service, j...

As the hon. Gentleman knows, I used to be chairman of the defence unions. I am proud of my long a...

If I can just bring the discussion back to this planet, I accept that the Labour party does not w...

The right hon. and learned Gentleman should put that question to his Front-Bench colleagues so th...

That, I respectfully suggest, is not a very clever question, because it is loaded to produce the ...

I agree it is plain silly that the right hon. and learned Gentleman’s Front-Bench colleagues have...

Traditionally, matters such as training are not put in legislation, but that does not mean that t...

With respect, I disagree with the hon. Lady. If we look at the training received by the police, P...

The hon. Gentleman—he is actually a friend of mine—and I both know that we arm members of the pub...

I am very familiar with what the hon. Gentleman has said. I am proud to have many friends who are...

I call Kit Malthouse.

What an honour it is to be called before all these august Members!

In respect of amendments...

I can see that my hon. Friend is on to a good thing here. As someone who has not sentenced anyone...

My right hon. and learned Friend makes a valid point. However, these people are somehow financing...

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for North West Hampshire (Kit Malthouse). I start by s...

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right about the role that special constables play in our police ...

I entirely agree. I am very proud that the headquarters of the Greater Manchester Police Federati...

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that, when the public see a police officer, they simply see a polic...

It is great, and I think that the hon. Gentleman is inadvertently making my case for me that we s...

Will the hon. Gentleman accept that Parliament is not seeking to extend the power to volunteers? ...

I would sooner be unduly alarmist than face a situation in the future where somebody may have bee...

Is the hon. Gentleman seriously suggesting that Parliament should sit until the recess and come u...

I hope that we would not have to face a situation in which chief constables inappropriately use t...

The hon. Gentleman is making a peculiar point. If he is saying that, essentially, we should not g...

The hon. Gentleman has, inadvertently, made my case for me. He talks about extending firearms pow...

Order. We have seven more speakers, plus the Minister, so I am a little concerned that we will no...

I shall try to rattle through my contribution. I shall speak to my new clause 1, but first let me...

According to the National Audit Office, police forces saw their funding from central Government f...

My hon. Friend is making an incredibly powerful point about the importance of neighbourhood and c...

My hon. Friend makes a good point that I fully agree with. Unfortunately, across the country we a...

Failsworth in the borough of Oldham had one of the borough’s reassurance projects, which were the...

My hon. Friend makes a good point. As a local councillor, I spent many years working with the nei...

In fact, those people are community support officers, not police community support officers. Poli...

I accept that the Welsh Assembly Government do not have power over policing, but there is no diff...

I call Geoffrey Clifton-Brown.

You have caught me out of my place, Mr Deputy Speaker, but I am sure that what I have to say will...

I think you left your place.

I probably did. I start by drawing attention to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial In...

I want to speak to new clause 19, which appears in my name and those of many right hon. and hon. ...

I rise to add my support to new clauses 7, 8 and 9. In particular, it is important that people wh...

Does my hon. Friend agree that in that situation, one way forward that the shotgun licence holder...

I totally agree. The new clause would remove that unnecessary duplication of effort and allow the...

With the greatest respect, I have to correct the hon. Lady. If we compare metropolitan forces wit...

I simply do not accept that. The “damping” provisions have ensured that metropolitan areas have h...

I start by joining the hon. Member for Birmingham, Erdington (Jack Dromey) in paying tribute to t...

May I briefly intervene in support of new clause 1? There is no doubt that welcome steps have bee...

The law is clear. Selling a knife to anyone under 18 is against the law, and anyone who does so i...

With great respect to my hon. Friend, it sounds as though she is shunting my new clauses into the...

I can assure my hon. Friend that that is not the case. I understand that he had a productive meet...

I have a very quick question for the Minister. Is she therefore giving us an assurance that we ar...

Yes. I understand that the Minister for Policing, Fire, Criminal Justice and Victims will write t...