UK Parliament / Open data

Policing and Crime Bill

Debate on bills on Monday, 7 March 2016, in the House of Commons, led by Baroness May of Maidenhead. The answering member was Andy Burnham.
Second reading. Agreed to on question. Programme motion on proceedings in Public Bill Committee, on Consideration and up to and including Third reading. Agreed to on question. Money resolution. Agreed to on question. Carry-over motion. Agreed to on question.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

607 cc36-104 

Session

2015-16

Department

Home Office

Legislative stage

Second reading

Chamber / Committee

House of Commons chamber
Policing and Crime Bill 2015-16
Wednesday, 10 February 2016
Bills
House of Commons

Proceeding contributions

Baroness May of Maidenhead | 607 c37 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time.

As hon. Members of this House are a...

Stephen Doughty | 607 c37 (Link to this contribution)

The Home Secretary was talking a moment ago about cybercrime and the changing nature of crime. Sh...


Show all contributions (157)
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 607 c37 (Link to this contribution)

I say to the hon. Gentleman that the figures from the independent crime survey show that crime ha...

Huw Irranca-Davies | 607 c38 (Link to this contribution)

The Secretary of State mentioned the exploitation of teenagers, and I am sure she is aware of the...

Baroness May of Maidenhead | 607 c38 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman mentions the serious matter of the exploitation of those who are perhaps above...

Andrew Gwynne | 607 c38 (Link to this contribution)

Will the Home Secretary also urge some joined-up thinking on her ministerial colleagues, because ...

Baroness May of Maidenhead | 607 cc38-9 (Link to this contribution)

First, the hon. Gentleman is right about Greater Manchester. Obviously, it has taken a number of ...

Steve Brine | 607 c39 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the Home Secretary for mentioning Hampshire before I did. I know that she is loo...

Baroness May of Maidenhead | 607 c39 (Link to this contribution)

I am tempted to do that. I should perhaps respond that my hon. Friend the Member for Winchester (...

David Warburton | 607 c39 (Link to this contribution)

Does my right hon. Friend agree that collaboration and co-operation are very important when an in...

Baroness May of Maidenhead | 607 cc39-40 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes a very important point. When an incident takes place, the three emergency se...

Jake Berry | 607 c40 (Link to this contribution)

I am sure that my right hon. Friend would accept that one of the most challenging parts of our co...

Baroness May of Maidenhead | 607 c40 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes an important point. Of course, we must recognise that there are particular p...

Keith Vaz | 607 c40 (Link to this contribution)

There is no doubt that as Home Secretary, the right hon. Lady has altered for ever the landscape ...

Baroness May of Maidenhead | 607 c41 (Link to this contribution)

The right hon. Gentleman is right to raise that issue. It is a matter that I have discussed with ...

Baroness May of Maidenhead | 607 c41 (Link to this contribution)

I will give way one further time, then I will make some progress.

Lord Austin of Dudley | 607 c41 (Link to this contribution)

We in the west midlands are delighted with the appointment of our new chief constable, Dave Thomp...

Baroness May of Maidenhead | 607 c41 (Link to this contribution)

May I, too, commend Chief Constable Dave Thompson in the west midlands? I and the Under-Secretary...

Baroness May of Maidenhead | 607 cc41-2 (Link to this contribution)

These reforms to the arrangements in London are supported by all the key bodies, including the au...

Lord Walney | 607 c42 (Link to this contribution)

I appreciate the Home Secretary giving way. Is she as concerned as I am about the length of delay...

Baroness May of Maidenhead | 607 cc42-3 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is right to raise a case about which many people were deeply concerned to see ...

Lord Beamish | 607 c44 (Link to this contribution)

I broadly welcome what the Home Secretary is outlining in terms of the IPCC, but one complaint I ...

Baroness May of Maidenhead | 607 c44 (Link to this contribution)

Yes. It is important that all cases are dealt with in as timely a fashion as possible. Beefing up...

Peter Bottomley | 607 c44 (Link to this contribution)

This Second Reading debate is not the time to go into the details of the case of former sergeant ...

Baroness May of Maidenhead | 607 cc44-5 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend raises a case that, as I know from our discussions and correspondence, he has take...

Baroness May of Maidenhead | 607 c45 (Link to this contribution)

If I may, I will make a little more progress on this issue. In two instances—pre-charge bail and ...

Ann Coffey | 607 c45 (Link to this contribution)

I welcome the provision in clause 53 to increase safeguards for 17-year-olds, in recognition of t...

Baroness May of Maidenhead | 607 cc45-6 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady raises an interesting point. However, it is possible that the age of the individual...

Charles Walker | 607 c46 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my right hon. Friend for all the work she has done with Black Mental Health UK in previou...

Baroness May of Maidenhead | 607 c46 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend, who has a fine record of campaigning on these issues, is right to raise that poin...

Lord Beamish | 607 c46 (Link to this contribution)

I welcome some of the mental health changes being outlined by the Home Secretary, but there is an...

Baroness May of Maidenhead | 607 c46 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman makes an interesting point. Obviously, what we are trying to do through the Bi...

Sarah Wollaston | 607 c46 (Link to this contribution)

Will the Home Secretary join me in commending Devon and Cornwall police, who, through careful joi...

Baroness May of Maidenhead | 607 c46 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend raises an important point. Whenever we legislate, we have to consider the possible...

Steve Brine | 607 c47 (Link to this contribution)

Will the Home Secretary give way?

Baroness May of Maidenhead | 607 c47 (Link to this contribution)

Despite what I said earlier, I apologise to my hon. Friend, but I need to make some progress. [In...

Ann Coffey | 607 c47 (Link to this contribution)

Will the Secretary of State give way?

Baroness May of Maidenhead | 607 c47 (Link to this contribution)

If the hon. Lady will excuse me, I am virtually at the end of my speech, and I wish to finish.

Andy Burnham | 607 c47 (Link to this contribution)

Will the Secretary of State give way?

Baroness May of Maidenhead | 607 c47 (Link to this contribution)

I have just indicated to the right hon. Gentleman’s colleague that I would not give way. However,...

Andy Burnham | 607 c48 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the Secretary of State for giving way, and I appreciate that she is coming to a ...

Baroness May of Maidenhead | 607 c48 (Link to this contribution)

The statement that I made about crime falling is based on the independent crime survey of England...

Ann Coffey | 607 c48 (Link to this contribution)

Will the Secretary of State give way?

Baroness May of Maidenhead | 607 c48 (Link to this contribution)

I am virtually on my last sentence. The Bill will continue the Government’s commitment to reform ...

Andy Burnham | 607 c48 (Link to this contribution)

The Opposition welcome most of the measures in the Bill. Indeed, we have led calls for some of th...

Liz Saville Roberts | 607 c49 (Link to this contribution)

On the theme of changes, Labour’s First Minister of Wales has today aligned with Plaid Cymru in c...

Andy Burnham | 607 c49 (Link to this contribution)

That is an interesting proposal, but it is the view of the Labour party in Wales. It is not yet t...

Lord Austin of Dudley | 607 c49 (Link to this contribution)

We all know that savings have to be made, but no one will be impressed by the Home Secretary’s co...

Andy Burnham | 607 c49 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes precisely the point I was coming on to make. Whatever Ministers claim, 36 of...

Jake Berry | 607 c49 (Link to this contribution)

Surely the question that really prompts is: why does crime continue to come down? Why does the ri...

Andy Burnham | 607 c49 (Link to this contribution)

I do not think that the hon. Gentleman can have been paying attention. We have just had an exchan...

Baroness May of Maidenhead | 607 c50 (Link to this contribution)

Will the right hon. Gentleman tell us why he did not advocate adding the figures for fraud and cy...

Andy Burnham | 607 c50 (Link to this contribution)

There is a simple answer: because the current practice was recommended by the independent Office ...

Kit Malthouse | 607 c50 (Link to this contribution)

I believe we would all accept that the right hon. Gentleman is right that crime is changing, but ...

Andy Burnham | 607 c50 (Link to this contribution)

I agree with the hon. Gentleman that cybercrime or online crime is one of the biggest challenges ...

James Cleverly | 607 c50 (Link to this contribution)

As a former chairman of the London Fire and Emergency Planning Authority, I ask the right hon. Ge...

Andy Burnham | 607 cc50-1 (Link to this contribution)

Again, I urge Government Members not to be so complacent. The hon. Gentleman may have seen that t...

Alex Cunningham | 607 c51 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. Friend talked about leaky buckets a few seconds ago. This country has faced tremend...

Andy Burnham | 607 cc51-2 (Link to this contribution)

What I have heard from my fire services in the north-west is that they did not have enough resour...

Lord Walney | 607 c52 (Link to this contribution)

I am sure my right hon. Friend welcomes the fact that the Independent Police Complaints Commissio...

Andy Burnham | 607 c52 (Link to this contribution)

I will come to that point in a moment, but I agree with my hon. Friend and I will demonstrate why...

Steve Brine | 607 c52 (Link to this contribution)

The right hon. Gentleman said that it is still early days for police and crime commissioners, but...

Andy Burnham | 607 c53 (Link to this contribution)

I have been very clear about that. With the election things have changed, and we do not oppose po...

James Berry | 607 c53 (Link to this contribution)

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that: police and crime commissioners do not have operational re...

Andy Burnham | 607 cc53-4 (Link to this contribution)

Of course the PCC works with the chief constable to set budgets and priorities, and of course tha...

Keith Vaz | 607 c54 (Link to this contribution)

The shadow Home Secretary is right to raise this important point and case, which the Select Commi...

Andy Burnham | 607 cc54-5 (Link to this contribution)

Absolutely. People would expect that terror suspects would be placed on watch lists immediately —...

Lord Beamish | 607 c55 (Link to this contribution)

Does my right hon. Friend agree that one omission is that this information is not kept nationally...

Andy Burnham | 607 c55 (Link to this contribution)

That is the problem. Professionals searching for a bed are in a desperate position because of the...

Kit Malthouse | 607 c55 (Link to this contribution)

Would the right hon. Gentleman apply the same rules to volunteer firefighters, who operate with a...

Andy Burnham | 607 c55 (Link to this contribution)

I say to all Government Members that an increased reliance on volunteers is no way to backfill cu...

James Cleverly | 607 c56 (Link to this contribution)

Will the right hon. Gentleman take this opportunity to correct what I can only assume to be an in...

Andy Burnham | 607 c56 (Link to this contribution)

Clearly the hon. Gentleman was not listening because I praised the role of police specials and sa...

Baroness May of Maidenhead | 607 c56 (Link to this contribution)

Putting aside the fact that we consulted on collaboration between the police and fire services, t...

Andy Burnham | 607 cc56-7 (Link to this contribution)

I am afraid that the Home Secretary needs to be corrected on a lot of that. First, although, yes,...

Steve Brine | 607 c57 (Link to this contribution)

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

Steve Brine | 607 c57 (Link to this contribution)

As the right hon. Gentleman knows, we have worked together on many matters. I respect his opinion...

Andy Burnham | 607 cc57-8 (Link to this contribution)

Crime has fallen—that is absolutely correct—but the risk of a major incident has risen lately, an...

Charles Walker | 607 cc58-9 (Link to this contribution)

I am aware that some Bills are driven by the civil service and some are driven by No. 10, but thi...

Bob Stewart | 607 c59 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is making a great speech. Would he advocate the introduction of interim places of ...

Charles Walker | 607 c59 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is genuinely trying to be constructive and to find a way forward, but I just do no...

Lord Beamish | 607 c59 (Link to this contribution)

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that someone having a heart attack is in crisis and in a life-threa...

Charles Walker | 607 cc59-60 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend—for that is what I call him—knows that I do not think that the two should be treat...

Andy Burnham | 607 c60 (Link to this contribution)

I have huge respect for the hon. Gentleman and for his campaigning on these issues over many year...

Charles Walker | 607 cc60-1 (Link to this contribution)

I do agree that we need more beds. It cannot be right that children and adults at a point of cris...

Angela Crawley | 607 cc61-2 (Link to this contribution)

I welcome the opportunity to speak in today’s debate and share the sentiments of the Secretary of...

James Morris | 607 c62 (Link to this contribution)

Thank you, Madam—[Interruption.] I mean Mr Deputy Speaker; I am sorry. All the flattery from my h...

James Morris | 607 cc62-3 (Link to this contribution)

We have a very close relationship.

As my hon. Friend the Member for Broxbourne has pointed ...

Mike Penning | 607 c63 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my hon. Friend for giving way, and particularly commend the speech by my hon. Friend the ...

James Morris | 607 c63 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister for that intervention. He makes a powerful point. I have been a strong advoc...

Mike Penning | 607 c64 (Link to this contribution)

I apologise for further delaying the House. Where it has not been possible for whatever reason to...

James Morris | 607 c64 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister makes an excellent point. We need greater integration between policing and health. I...

Bob Stewart | 607 c64 (Link to this contribution)

Street triage sounds ideal and superb. Am I correct in assuming that the psychiatric nurse and th...

James Morris | 607 cc64-5 (Link to this contribution)

Such teams find themselves in extremely difficult and often dangerous situations, in which they h...

Keith Vaz | 607 c65 (Link to this contribution)

This has been an interesting and encouraging debate where there seems to be camaraderie across th...

Mike Penning | 607 c66 (Link to this contribution)

When I took over the policing responsibility 18 months ago, I asked for the previous reports by t...

Keith Vaz | 607 c66 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister, and I say to him that he should carry on cherry-picking if that results in ...

Lord Beamish | 607 c66 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. Friend is right that the intention is, quite rightly, not to have under-18s in poli...

Keith Vaz | 607 c66 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. That is why these things have to be done in partnership with ...

Mike Penning | 607 c67 (Link to this contribution)

I wonder whether the Home Affairs Committee Chairman would agree that that does not need to be in...

Keith Vaz | 607 cc67-8 (Link to this contribution)

What the Minister has said today is extremely powerful and important, and it will give great comf...

Mike Penning | 607 c68 (Link to this contribution)

Because the college was absolutely brand new, we first had to get it established, bedded down and...

Keith Vaz | 607 cc68-9 (Link to this contribution)

I hope that we will look at some of these issues when we come to review the work of the college i...

Jake Berry | 607 cc69-72 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to have the opportunity, relatively quickly, to speak again in a debate about po...

Lord Walney | 607 cc71-4 (Link to this contribution)

It is an honour to follow the considered speech of the hon. Member for Rossendale and Darwen (Jak...

Mike Penning | 607 c74 (Link to this contribution)

I thought it might be useful to say at this point that the Under-Secretary of State and I, having...

Lord Walney | 607 cc74-5 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister for intervening now, rather than waiting until his summation. What he has sa...

James Berry | 607 c75 (Link to this contribution)

I am sure that the hon. Gentleman has consulted the police conduct regulations and will know that...

Lord Walney | 607 c75 (Link to this contribution)

The sanction would not be more extreme because there is no chance of any workplace sanction after...

Mike Penning | 607 c75 (Link to this contribution)

One of my very sad but important duties is to remove a pension from an officer because they have ...

Lord Walney | 607 c75 (Link to this contribution)

But what if they have retired?

I am getting into the rather unusual situation of wanting to...

James Cleverly | 607 c75 (Link to this contribution)

I hope I can clarify the situation. I have served on the professional standards sub-committee of ...

Lord Walney | 607 c76 (Link to this contribution)

That is helpful. I must say that I was not confusing the two of them, but I am grateful to the Mi...

Lord Beamish | 607 c76 (Link to this contribution)

I am listening very carefully to my hon. Friend’s speech and I understand his frustration, but do...

Lord Walney | 607 c76 (Link to this contribution)

I understand that there are clearly practical difficulties. At the moment, there would not be suc...

Amanda Milling | 607 cc76-8 (Link to this contribution)

It is a real pleasure to take part in today’s debate, and I am incredibly grateful for the opport...

Bob Stewart | 607 c78 (Link to this contribution)

Forgive me, Madam Deputy Speaker, but I had to leave the Chamber for 30 minutes earlier. Does my ...

Amanda Milling | 607 c78 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Co-responding would bring better responses to certain inciden...

Lyn Brown | 607 c78 (Link to this contribution)

Does the hon. Lady not recognise that many of those savings have already been made through collab...

Amanda Milling | 607 cc78-9 (Link to this contribution)

Although I recognise that there is some collaboration within services, I believe we could go an a...

Lord Beamish | 607 cc79-80 (Link to this contribution)

I broadly welcome this Bill, and I will touch first on its proposals for mental health services a...

Bob Stewart | 607 c80 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the hon. Gentleman, who is a friend, for giving way. Not only does the police officer hav...

Lord Beamish | 607 cc80-2 (Link to this contribution)

I agree, and as has been mentioned, there is good practice in co-locating police officers and oth...

Charles Walker | 607 c82 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is talking about short-term crisis houses, which tend to be run by the third s...

Lord Beamish | 607 cc82-3 (Link to this contribution)

Yes. It is time to consider that proposal irrespective of whether such houses are provided by the...

Kit Malthouse | 607 c83 (Link to this contribution)

I understand the sentiment the hon. Gentleman expresses, but does he agree that there are circums...

Lord Beamish | 607 c83 (Link to this contribution)

Yes, but the hon. Gentleman does the police and firefighters a disservice by giving an anecdotal ...

Lord Beamish | 607 c83 (Link to this contribution)

Well, yes, but that is not about blurring their roles. I do not think that that is what the publi...

Andy Burnham | 607 c83 (Link to this contribution)

Just to clarify, I was talking not about voting against the Bill per se—as I said, it is a good B...

Lord Beamish | 607 cc83-4 (Link to this contribution)

I apologise to my right hon. Friend for the misunderstanding. I thought he told the House he woul...

James Cleverly | 607 cc84-5 (Link to this contribution)

I will limit my speech to part 1 of the Bill, which deals with collaborative working, and specifi...

Andy Burnham | 607 c85 (Link to this contribution)

I am listening carefully to what the hon. Gentleman is saying, but will not the Bill make things ...

James Cleverly | 607 cc85-6 (Link to this contribution)

I do not believe that it will be. Ultimately, the Bill will result in a gravitational pull to cle...

Liz Saville Roberts | 607 cc86-7 (Link to this contribution)

The Bill legislates to deliver some of the Tory manifesto’s policing commitments. The people of E...

Kit Malthouse | 607 cc87-8 (Link to this contribution)

It is a great pleasure to come so far down the batting order because we get to hear what everyone...

Bob Stewart | 607 c88 (Link to this contribution)

As I listen to my hon. Friend’s description, I am thinking of an incident on the ground. I am ref...

Kit Malthouse | 607 cc88-90 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is exactly right. As he knows, a gold commander will be appointed, and more often ...

Mike Penning | 607 c90 (Link to this contribution)

One of the privileges of being the Minister for Policing, Crime and Criminal Justice is being par...

Kit Malthouse | 607 cc90-1 (Link to this contribution)

I welcome the Minister’s support. He has been a great proponent of the use of such bracelets, and...

James Berry | 607 cc91-2 (Link to this contribution)

The Conservative Government were elected on a manifesto commitment to finish the job of police re...

Jake Berry | 607 c93 (Link to this contribution)

On this specific issue, does my hon. Friend think it is worth exploring extending the slightly ar...

James Berry | 607 cc93-4 (Link to this contribution)

On this issue, the Berrys are ad idem.

My second point relates to developing the role of po...

Lord Davies of Gower | 607 cc94-7 (Link to this contribution)

I have had the privilege of hearing everybody speak in this debate, and I am delighted that I, to...

Jack Dromey | 607 cc97-9 (Link to this contribution)

From the start, I want to make it clear that we welcome many of the proposals in the Bill. There ...

Melanie Onn | 607 c98 (Link to this contribution)

I am a little concerned that we seem to be going down the route of accepting that physical crime ...

Jack Dromey | 607 cc98-102 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. If one looks at the profoundly worrying trends in violent cri...

Mike Penning | 607 cc102-3 (Link to this contribution)

I say genuinely that this has been a really good and sensible debate, and it has been conducted i...

Mike Penning | 607 c103 (Link to this contribution)

No; I am going to conclude. On that point, in a debate that has been particularly important, let ...

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