UK Parliament / Open data

The UK’s Justice and Home Affairs Opt-outs

Debate on Thursday, 10 July 2014, in the House of Commons, led by Baroness May of Maidenhead. The answering member was Lord Hanson of Flint.
Motion that this House has considered the UK’s Justice and Home Affairs opt-outs. Agreed to on question.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

584 cc484-549 

Session

2014-15

Department

Home Office

Chamber / Committee

House of Commons chamber

Show all related items (11)
The Government's response to the Committees' reports on the 2014 block opt-out decision.
Tuesday, 8 April 2014
Parliamentary committees
House of Commons
Decision pursuant to Article 10(5) of Protocol 36 to The Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union
Thursday, 3 July 2014
Command papers
House of Lords
House of Commons
European Scrutiny Committee fifth report with formal minutes.
Wednesday, 2 July 2014
Parliamentary committees
House of Commons

Proceeding contributions

Baroness May of Maidenhead | 584 cc485-6 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the UK’s Justice and Home Affairs opt-outs.

Edward Leigh | 584 c486 (Link to this contribution)

These are serious matters. Nobody wants to protect criminals. However, there is a lot of concern ...


Show all contributions (132)
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 584 c486 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend causes me to progress to another part of my speech. I want to make the situation a...

Tony Baldry | 584 c486 (Link to this contribution)

Will my right hon. Friend give way?

Baroness May of Maidenhead | 584 c486 (Link to this contribution)

Sorry, I am still responding to my hon. Friend the Member for Gainsborough (Sir Edward Leigh). I ...

Tony Baldry | 584 c487 (Link to this contribution)

I am very grateful to the Home Secretary. I apologise if I interrupted her.

I am sure that ...

Baroness May of Maidenhead | 584 c487 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. Friend makes an extremely valid point. It is the point that I had hoped to illustra...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 584 c487 (Link to this contribution)

Will the Home Secretary give way?

Baroness May of Maidenhead | 584 c487 (Link to this contribution)

I will, if my hon. Friend will wait a moment.

There have, of course, been a number of conce...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 584 c487 (Link to this contribution)

The Government, in their July 2013 Command Paper, said that

“it may be possible to negotiat...

Baroness May of Maidenhead | 584 c487 (Link to this contribution)

There are two issues in relation to that. First, people often say, “That’s what Denmark has; it i...

Keith Vaz | 584 c487 (Link to this contribution)

The Home Secretary is right that the European arrest warrant is needed and right in principle, bu...

Baroness May of Maidenhead | 584 c488 (Link to this contribution)

That is one of the issues we are addressing. One problem that has been raised—particularly in rel...

Keith Vaz | 584 c488 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful for that information. Further to what the hon. Member for Gainsborough (Sir Edward ...

Baroness May of Maidenhead | 584 c488 (Link to this contribution)

I am well aware of the views that the Committee put forward in its report, and as I indicated in ...

Gerald Howarth | 584 c488 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. Friend said that we have legislated in a way that protects us from the issuance of ...

Baroness May of Maidenhead | 584 c488 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend should look to other member states in the European Union that are already subject ...

John Redwood | 584 c488 (Link to this contribution)

Will my right hon. Friend give way?

Baroness May of Maidenhead | 584 cc488-9 (Link to this contribution)

If I may I would like to get to the end of this list of measures so that right hon. and hon. Memb...

John Redwood | 584 c489 (Link to this contribution)

Does the Home Secretary understand that either this House is sovereign in criminal justice or the...

Baroness May of Maidenhead | 584 c489 (Link to this contribution)

The point I have made to my right hon. Friend, and others in the past, is that of course there is...

Baroness May of Maidenhead | 584 c489 (Link to this contribution)

I am being generous and will continue to be generous to my right hon. and hon. Friends, all of wh...

William Cash | 584 c490 (Link to this contribution)

As my right hon. Friend knows—she has said this already—there are concerns that our laws are bein...

Baroness May of Maidenhead | 584 c490 (Link to this contribution)

As I indicated earlier, the House will introduce its own legislation to ensure that we are able t...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 584 c490 (Link to this contribution)

I am extremely grateful to the Home Secretary and sorry to trouble her a second time. This argume...

Baroness May of Maidenhead | 584 cc490-2 (Link to this contribution)

I find my hon. Friend’s argument strange. He says that, simply because a small number of serious ...

William Cash | 584 c492 (Link to this contribution)

Will my right hon. Friend explain to the House why it is so important to have those cross-border ...

Baroness May of Maidenhead | 584 cc492-3 (Link to this contribution)

Our police forces of course co-operate with other police forces throughout the world in bringing ...

Keith Vaz | 584 c493 (Link to this contribution)

I support everything the Home Secretary has said in respect of these policing issues. However, wh...

Baroness May of Maidenhead | 584 cc493-4 (Link to this contribution)

We discussed the measure the right hon. Gentleman refers to in front of his Committee and other C...

Michael Connarty | 584 c494 (Link to this contribution)

I notice that the title of the debate actually refers to opt-outs. Apart from Prüm, can the Home ...

Baroness May of Maidenhead | 584 c495 (Link to this contribution)

It is not that we are opting back into Prüm. We did not join Prüm in the first place, so that is ...

Lord Hanson of Flint | 584 c495 (Link to this contribution)

For 30 of the past 35 minutes, the Home Secretary had me on board. It was only in the last five m...

Keith Vaz | 584 c496 (Link to this contribution)

Will my Opposition Front Bench colleagues support a separate vote on the European arrest warrant?...

Lord Hanson of Flint | 584 c496 (Link to this contribution)

I am relaxed on that, but I do want the European arrest warrant put in place. We have had some sa...

John Redwood | 584 c496 (Link to this contribution)

How will the right hon. Gentleman feel on 15 June next year, when some of us will commemorate Mag...

Lord Hanson of Flint | 584 c496 (Link to this contribution)

The right hon. Gentleman will know that, as a Welsh Member of Parliament, I take a great interest...

Michael Connarty | 584 c496 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. Friend has not dealt with the terrible accusation, which the right hon. Member for ...

Lord Hanson of Flint | 584 c496 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for pointing out that nuance in the intervention by the right hon...

Lord Hanson of Flint | 584 c496 (Link to this contribution)

I appreciate that others take a different view, but that is my view.

I welcome today’s deba...

William Cash | 584 c496 (Link to this contribution)

In this very interesting exchange between those on the Front Benches, who seem to be largely in a...

Lord Hanson of Flint | 584 c497 (Link to this contribution)

As I think the Home Secretary also indicated in our little tête-à-tête of agreement, there is a w...

Philip Davies | 584 c497 (Link to this contribution)

We appear to be reaching an extraordinary position, in that the right hon. Gentleman seems to be ...

Lord Hanson of Flint | 584 c497 (Link to this contribution)

Again, I think the hon. Gentleman perhaps has more in common with other parties than his own on t...

Bob Stewart | 584 c497 (Link to this contribution)

Can the right hon. Gentleman say, therefore, what exactly the organisation called Interpol does, ...

Lord Hanson of Flint | 584 c497 (Link to this contribution)

As the former Minister for policing and counter-terrorism in the last Government, I could spend t...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 584 c497 (Link to this contribution)

May I make the same point to the right hon. Gentleman that I made to the Home Secretary? The figu...

Lord Hanson of Flint | 584 c497 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is talking about a small level of crimes, but they include crimes that could d...

Tony Baldry | 584 c498 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend the Member for North East Somerset (Jacob Rees-Mogg) is a great guy, but I do not ...

Lord Hanson of Flint | 584 c498 (Link to this contribution)

May I just say happy birthday to the right hon. Gentleman? I am an avid reader of The Guardian in...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 584 c498 (Link to this contribution)

The figure given to the European Scrutiny Committee was 507 whom the UK asked for between 2009 an...

Lord Hanson of Flint | 584 c498 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman should reflect on what he has just said. The removal from the United Kingdom o...

John Redwood | 584 c498 (Link to this contribution)

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

Lord Hanson of Flint | 584 c498 (Link to this contribution)

I am trying to make some progress, but of course I will give way.

John Redwood | 584 c498 (Link to this contribution)

We entirely agree that it is often in the UK’s interest to do that, and that is exactly why we wo...

Lord Hanson of Flint | 584 c498 (Link to this contribution)

I want to focus on some key issues that, again, the Home Secretary mentioned. Which rational hon....

Bernard Jenkin | 584 c499 (Link to this contribution)

It would be better if we conducted this debate on the basis that we were all in favour of those t...

Lord Hanson of Flint | 584 c499 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his contribution, but what those effective means are is a fair deb...

Lord Hanson of Flint | 584 cc499-500 (Link to this contribution)

I happen to think—it is a matter of debate and it will develop during the afternoon—that this is ...

Julian Smith | 584 c500 (Link to this contribution)

Does not the right hon. Gentleman agree with me that the Home Secretary and the Home Office have ...

Lord Hanson of Flint | 584 c500 (Link to this contribution)

They have indeed spent many hours, days and months, and I have spent many hours, days and months ...

Lord Hanson of Flint | 584 c500 (Link to this contribution)

The Justice Secretary says that they did, but he needs to reflect more on the record. The Home Se...

Michael Connarty | 584 c501 (Link to this contribution)

I think that my right hon. Friend is being kind to the Opposition and, probably correctly, to the...

Lord Hanson of Flint | 584 c501 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend raises important issues, but my chief point to the Home Secretary is that she coul...

William Cash | 584 cc501-2 (Link to this contribution)

This issue is not at all about shaking off Eurosceptics; it is about deciding what is sensible fo...

John Redwood | 584 c502 (Link to this contribution)

Does my hon. Friend remember that when we had Conservative Governments, we always understood that...

William Cash | 584 cc502-3 (Link to this contribution)

That is absolutely right. I have followed these matters with what could be described as a mild de...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 584 c503 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes a crucial point. We understood from the Home Secretary that there would be a...

William Cash | 584 cc503-5 (Link to this contribution)

That is exactly what I have said, and that is exactly what we need to have an answer to. What we ...

Keith Vaz | 584 cc504-6 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to follow the Chairman of the European Scrutiny Committee, the hon. Member for S...

Chris Heaton-Harris | 584 c506 (Link to this contribution)

There are some other issues around the European arrest warrant and trying to reform it. While we ...

Keith Vaz | 584 c507 (Link to this contribution)

I defer to the knowledge of the hon. Gentleman with all his vast experience of European affairs. ...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 584 c507 (Link to this contribution)

We could debate all 35, with a full day’s debate for each one—we are not exactly overwhelmed with...

Keith Vaz | 584 cc507-8 (Link to this contribution)

That is a good point, but luckily, I do not have control of the parliamentary day. These are repr...

William Cash | 584 c508 (Link to this contribution)

In this context, does the right hon. Gentleman regard Albania’s candidacy for the European Union ...

Keith Vaz | 584 c508 (Link to this contribution)

I apologise, but I could not hear the hon. Gentleman because the hon. Member for Aldridge-Brownhi...

William Cash | 584 c508 (Link to this contribution)

I just wanted to know whether, in the context of the issues of justice and home affairs and all t...

Keith Vaz | 584 cc508-9 (Link to this contribution)

Anyone can apply to join the club; we do not mind people wanting to apply to join. The problem is...

Lord Beith | 584 cc509-511 (Link to this contribution)

First, Madam Deputy Speaker, may I apologise for missing the start of the Home Secretary’s speech...

Michael Connarty | 584 cc511-4 (Link to this contribution)

As could be imagined, tailgating the hon. Member for Stone (Sir William Cash) on these issues in ...

Richard Shepherd | 584 cc514-5 (Link to this contribution)

I have been in this House for seven Parliaments. Each has seemed to have a different character, b...

Michael Connarty | 584 c515 (Link to this contribution)

I am concerned about the nationalist tone of the hon. Gentleman’s contribution. Under his logic, ...

Richard Shepherd | 584 cc515-7 (Link to this contribution)

I will not trade remarks on this matter. I was also born in Scotland, and I am deprived of a vote...

Tony Baldry | 584 cc517-8 (Link to this contribution)

It is always a pleasure to follow a brother knight. I take this opportunity to echo the comments ...

Bernard Jenkin | 584 c518 (Link to this contribution)

When did this House decide to abdicate to ACPO on matters of civil liberty or constitutional impo...

Tony Baldry | 584 c518 (Link to this contribution)

I should have thought that, on a matter of law and order, even my hon. Friend would think it migh...

Dominic Raab | 584 c518 (Link to this contribution)

I am listening intently to what my right hon. Friend is saying. We should listen to ACPO, but I d...

Tony Baldry | 584 cc519-520 (Link to this contribution)

I am quoting verbatim from ACPO’s evidence given to the House of Lords. I will share it with my h...

Bernard Jenkin | 584 cc520-2 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to have the opportunity to follow my right hon. Friend the Member for Banbury (Sir ...

William Cash | 584 c521 (Link to this contribution)

I agree with everything my hon. Friend is saying. In the United Kingdom, as compared with all the...

Bernard Jenkin | 584 cc521-4 (Link to this contribution)

I agree with the Prime Minister and with my hon. Friend on that point.

The Prime Minister r...

Gerald Howarth | 584 c523 (Link to this contribution)

I think it is terribly important that we explain to the public what the quad is about, because it...

Bernard Jenkin | 584 c523 (Link to this contribution)

I am not suggesting for a moment that my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary is not sincere in h...

Edward Leigh | 584 c523 (Link to this contribution)

I normally agree with everything that my hon. Friend the Member for Aldershot (Sir Gerald Howarth...

Bernard Jenkin | 584 cc523-6 (Link to this contribution)

It has been made clear throughout the civil service that there can be no policy except Government...

Baroness Primarolo | 584 cc526-7 (Link to this contribution)

Order. Bearing in mind the speech that we have just heard, I think I need to clarify that, althou...

Gerald Howarth | 584 cc527-8 (Link to this contribution)

I am delighted to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Harwich and North Essex (Mr Jenkin) and, i...

William Cash | 584 c528 (Link to this contribution)

Does my hon. Friend agree that there is a sort of whiff of appeasement going on here? Basically, ...

Gerald Howarth | 584 c529 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is right, and I set out earlier what I felt the dilemma to be. Undoubtedly, the Ho...

David Nuttall | 584 cc529-531 (Link to this contribution)

It is a great pleasure, as always, to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Aldershot (Sir Gerald ...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 584 cc530-3 (Link to this contribution)

It is a particular pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Bury North (Mr Nuttall), alth...

Bernard Jenkin | 584 c533 (Link to this contribution)

It seems from the stance adopted by the Government that we are being invited to believe that the ...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 584 cc533-5 (Link to this contribution)

That is exactly the point I was making. It bodes ill for any proposal for renegotiation if that i...

Robert Buckland | 584 cc534-6 (Link to this contribution)

It is always a pleasure—nay, an honour—to follow my hon. Friend the Member for North East Somerse...

Bernard Jenkin | 584 c536 (Link to this contribution)

I admire my hon. Friend’s intellectual honesty in admitting that in respect of the European arres...

Robert Buckland | 584 c536 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend asks the fundamental question we should always ask, about not just European legisl...

Bernard Jenkin | 584 c536 (Link to this contribution)

If a wayward British court makes a judgment that is clearly not intended by Parliament but has ar...

Robert Buckland | 584 c536 (Link to this contribution)

We have mechanisms within the European structure to do that, via the Council of Ministers, renego...

Bernard Jenkin | 584 c537 (Link to this contribution)

There is the flaw in your argument.

Robert Buckland | 584 c537 (Link to this contribution)

I disagree, and I am more than willing to talk briefly about how we renegotiate these things. Tal...

Bernard Jenkin | 584 c537 (Link to this contribution)

I am very grateful for my hon. Friend’s generosity in giving way. I have served in this House for...

Robert Buckland | 584 c537 (Link to this contribution)

But remembering that the competence of the ECJ deals with the application of EU law in the UK, we...

Robert Buckland | 584 cc537-8 (Link to this contribution)

I disagree. It is up to us in this House and elsewhere to show leadership and to explain to peopl...

Dominic Raab | 584 cc538-540 (Link to this contribution)

It is a great pleasure, as always, to follow my hon. Friend the Member for South Swindon (Mr Buck...

William Cash | 584 c540 (Link to this contribution)

We are talking about not just one judge but several judges who are making similar remarks. They a...

Dominic Raab | 584 cc540-1 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is absolutely right that this is a growing problem, and I think that that is recog...

Lord Beith | 584 c541 (Link to this contribution)

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Dominic Raab | 584 c541 (Link to this contribution)

Very briefly, as I need to allow time for the winding-up speeches.

Lord Beith | 584 c541 (Link to this contribution)

Does the hon. Gentleman envisage bilateral extradition treaties with each individual member state...

Dominic Raab | 584 cc541-3 (Link to this contribution)

I shall address that point squarely in a moment. I need to move on fairly swiftly.

In the m...

Sadiq Khan | 584 c543 (Link to this contribution)

This has been a good debate. By the time we finish, it will have lasted for more than four hours....

Sadiq Khan | 584 cc543-6 (Link to this contribution)

I have only a short time in which to speak, but I will give way later if I can.

We owe it t...

Lord Grayling | 584 cc545-7 (Link to this contribution)

This has been an important debate and I have listened very carefully to the strong opinions expre...

William Cash | 584 c547 (Link to this contribution)

I understand very well where my right hon. Friend is coming from and I think I know where he woul...

Lord Grayling | 584 cc547-9 (Link to this contribution)

The Prime Minister set out some of the areas for renegotiation in his article earlier this spring...

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