UK Parliament / Open data

Counter-Terrorism Bill (Programme) (No. 2)

Debate on bills on Tuesday, 10 June 2008, in the House of Commons.
Counter-Terrorism Bill. Programme motion for proceedings on Report and third reading. Agreed to on division (310 votes to 212). Report stage first day. New Clauses 18 and 19 agreed to. New Clause 5 negatived on division (320 votes to 228).

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

477 c165-279 

Session

2007-08

Department

Home Office

Legislative stage

Report stage

Procedure

Programme motions
New clauses

Chamber / Committee

House of Commons chamber

Related items

Counter-Terrorism Bill. As amended in Public Bill Committee.
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Counter-Terrorism Policy and Human Rights : Annual renewal of control orders legislation, and the Counter-Terrorism Bill. Government response to the eighth and ninth reports of 2007-08 from the Human Rights Joint Select Committee. (HC 356 and HC 199)
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Counter-Terrorism Policy and Human Rights (Eighth Report): Counter-Terrorism Bill. Human Rights Joint Select Committee ninth report with with proceedings and evidence.
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Counter-Terrorism Policy and Human Rights: 42 days and public emergencies. Human Rights Joint Select Committee twenty-first report with proceedings and memoranda.
Monday, 2 June 2008
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Show all related items (7)

Proceeding contributions

Chris Bryant | 477 c193 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for allowing me to intervene on the point that he has just made in respon...
Elfyn Llwyd | 477 c193 (Link to this contribution) I agree with what the right hon. and learned Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham (Mr. Hogg) has sa...

Show all contributions (228)
Viscount Hailsham | 477 c193 (Link to this contribution) I want to make three points. First, my amendment No. 46 proposes that post-charge questioning should...
Tom Brake | 477 c192-3 (Link to this contribution) I do not think that it would be appropriate for me to respond to that point. Clearly, no Member will...
Nigel Evans | 477 c192 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman will be aware that the Government are planning to get rid of some of those forms,...
Tom Brake | 477 c191-2 (Link to this contribution) I, too, want to start my comments by thanking the Minister for what he has taken on board from the c...
Andrew Dismore | 477 c191 (Link to this contribution) I agree, but unless it is excluded, one cannot say for sure that it will not happen. The PACE code s...
Dominic Grieve | 477 c191 (Link to this contribution) I agree entirely with the hon. Gentleman. I find it inconceivable that someone could be interviewed ...
Elfyn Llwyd | 477 c193-4 (Link to this contribution) Not necessarily: the right hon. and learned Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham said that some new...
David Heath | 477 c194 (Link to this contribution) I share the hon. Gentleman's general views, but although new clause 4 raises all the right issues, i...
Elfyn Llwyd | 477 c194-5 (Link to this contribution) I will not repeat that verbatim, but the Minister heard what was said, and I am sure that he will ma...
Tony McNulty | 477 c196-7 (Link to this contribution) Just let me finish this point. I am not being unjustly or over-critical about new clause 4 or the am...
Viscount Hailsham | 477 c196 (Link to this contribution) The Minister may not want to deal with this now, but before he sits down will he deal with the matte...
Tony McNulty | 477 c197 (Link to this contribution) I have told the hon. and learned Gentleman that I am rather weary as a result of all the movement th...
Dominic Grieve | 477 c197 (Link to this contribution) The Minister is very tempting, but I am minded to press new clause 4, partly because I do not wish o...
Viscount Hailsham | 477 c195 (Link to this contribution) Reading the text of the new clauses and the proposed amendments, it is difficult to see why they sho...
Lord Deben | 477 c195 (Link to this contribution) None of us would like to be churlish about how far the Minister has moved on the issue. I agree with...
Tony McNulty | 477 c196 (Link to this contribution) The debate has been useful. All three models have virtue. We are talking partly about philosophy and...
Lord Deben | 477 c195-6 (Link to this contribution) The more we are able to consider these matters in the generality of the way the criminal justice sys...
Chris Bryant | 477 c197 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend sounds very much like a man who is about to move a bit further. Surely if new c...
Pete Wishart | 477 c184 (Link to this contribution) The Minister will know of the particular sensitivity about how this provision will apply to the Scot...
Tony McNulty | 477 c183-4 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. and learned Gentleman will bear with me, I will come to that shortly. As I was saying, ...
Speaker | 477 c184 (Link to this contribution) That is not a matter for the Chair and I am sure that any omission will be put right as soon as poss...
Peter Bone | 477 c184 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. The Minister said that the draft PACE codes were freely ava...
Tony McNulty | 477 c184 (Link to this contribution) I do, just as there are in the broader sense of the common law base. That is what we are trying to g...
Dominic Grieve | 477 c184-5 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for listening to some of the representations made in Committee on post-charge q...
Viscount Hailsham | 477 c185 (Link to this contribution) May I explore my hon. and learned Friend's thinking on this matter? Is he suggesting that the applic...
Speaker | 477 c184 (Link to this contribution) Does the Minister wish to speak?
Tony McNulty | 477 c184 (Link to this contribution) Further to that point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. I had finished my speech and sat down, but I want...
Dominic Grieve | 477 c186 (Link to this contribution) The application should be inter partes, but an inter partes hearing in front of a Crown court judge ...
Dominic Grieve | 477 c186-7 (Link to this contribution) I am happy to press the Minister to answer that question, but I think that I can almost give my righ...
Lord Deben | 477 c186 (Link to this contribution) Surely the procedure would be complicated and difficult only if there were a large number of such ca...
Dominic Grieve | 477 c187-8 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman, and I agree. Although I am sure that there are different ways o...
David Heath | 477 c187 (Link to this contribution) I share the hon. and learned Gentleman's view that the Government have moved in the right direction ...
Dominic Grieve | 477 c188 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. and learned Friend raises an interesting point, although, at this stage, I fear that w...
Viscount Hailsham | 477 c188 (Link to this contribution) I basically agree with my hon. and learned Friend. However, it is possible that both the Government ...
Andrew Dismore | 477 c188-90 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to have the opportunity to follow the hon. and learned Member for Beaconsfield (Mr. Gr...
Chris Bryant | 477 c190 (Link to this contribution) I presume that some of my hon. Friend's new clause would be redundant if Government new clauses 18 a...
Andrew Dismore | 477 c190-1 (Link to this contribution) Ultimately that will be for the judicial authority to decide, but we are talking about a case in whi...
Andrew Dismore | 477 c198 (Link to this contribution) No. Like the hon. and learned Member for Beaconsfield (Mr. Grieve), I want to get on to the next deb...
Andrew Dismore | 477 c199 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
Tony McNulty | 477 c197-8 (Link to this contribution) On the point raised by the right hon. and learned Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham, as the Bill...
Speaker | 477 c198 (Link to this contribution) Order. Does the hon. Member for Hendon (Mr. Dismore) want to press new clause 4 to a Division?
Dominic Grieve | 477 c203-5 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Member for Hendon (Mr. Dismore) and his Committee have done the House a good service in com...
Tom Brake | 477 c205-6 (Link to this contribution) The Liberal Democrats oppose control orders. However, when proposals are made to ameliorate them, th...
Speaker | 477 c199 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following: New clause 6—Control orders: ongoing revi...
Andrew Dismore | 477 c200-3 (Link to this contribution) This group of new clauses and amendments relates to control orders. When we debated the renewal orde...
Tony McNulty | 477 c197 (Link to this contribution) This opens up other areas. As I said earlier, not just for the process but for the Crown court judge...
Dominic Grieve | 477 c197 (Link to this contribution) I have some good news for the Minister. I will not press new clause 4, because it would prevent our ...
Martin Salter | 477 c166 (Link to this contribution) I am delighted that the hon. Gentleman is prepared to give way again. He talks about the tenuous rel...
Peter Bone | 477 c166 (Link to this contribution) I will hazard a guess that many hon. Members will wish to speak in the next two days, and many of th...
Martin Salter | 477 c166 (Link to this contribution) I was a member of the Committee that considered the Bill, and I have to tell the hon. Gentleman that...
Peter Bone | 477 c166 (Link to this contribution) I am not sure that that has any relevance to this part of the proceedings on the Bill. What those on...
John Redwood | 477 c166 (Link to this contribution) Is there not a pattern to this, in that every time there is a serious Bill and real issues to debate...
Peter Bone | 477 c166 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that intervention. My right hon. Friend puts it far better than I could. We had a...
Peter Bone | 477 c165-6 (Link to this contribution) On April Fool's day, the programme motion for the Counter-Terrorism Bill was published. Of course, w...
Charles Walker | 477 c166 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that the role of Back Benchers on both sides of the House is to scrutinise...
Tony McNulty | 477 c174 (Link to this contribution) None the less, the House has been afforded, through the usual channels, one day's debate on one clau...
Dominic Grieve | 477 c173-4 (Link to this contribution) If I may say so, I think that the Minister is missing the point. I said that I made no complaint abo...
Tony McNulty | 477 c173 (Link to this contribution) I will in a moment, because the hon. Gentleman did at least pop into the Committee, although not dur...
Tony McNulty | 477 c173 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman must answer to himself for his priorities. Given what has rightly been said about...
David TC Davies | 477 c173 (Link to this contribution) The Minister will be well aware that I was not there for the last week because the Home Affairs Comm...
Tony McNulty | 477 c173 (Link to this contribution) I shall, because it is very good to see the right hon. and learned Gentleman in his place.
Viscount Hailsham | 477 c173 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman. Will he understand this about Committees? Generally speak...
Tony McNulty | 477 c173 (Link to this contribution) They simply do not, because they can have an input on Second Reading and Third Reading, and at any s...
Dominic Grieve | 477 c183 (Link to this contribution) The Minister will know that we registered some anxiety in Committee over the question of whether suc...
Viscount Hailsham | 477 c181-2 (Link to this contribution) I welcome the requirement that the right hon. Gentleman has just outlined and it would be a good pre...
Tony McNulty | 477 c181 (Link to this contribution) I begin by reminding hon. Members that some further documents should be read alongside this group of...
Speaker | 477 c179 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following: Government new clause 19—Issue and revisio...
Tony McNulty | 477 c174 (Link to this contribution) Exactly so. With respect, the hon. Gentleman cannot have it both ways. He cannot complain about the ...
Tony McNulty | 477 c179 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
Tony McNulty | 477 c174 (Link to this contribution) Not at the moment, with respect.
Elfyn Llwyd | 477 c174 (Link to this contribution) I point out gently to the Minister that during the passage of the Maastricht Bill, we spent several ...
Viscount Hailsham | 477 c167-8 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman simply was not listening. I began by saying that Labour Members spoke on the 42 d...
Adrian Bailey | 477 c167 (Link to this contribution) May I correct the right hon. and learned Gentleman? If he bothers to cast his mind back to the debat...
Elfyn Llwyd | 477 c169 (Link to this contribution) I endorse what has just been said. I, too, was a member of the Committee, where we did have adequate...
Dominic Grieve | 477 c168-9 (Link to this contribution) I cannot allow the words of the hon. Member for Reading, West (Martin Salter) to go unchallenged, as...
Elfyn Llwyd | 477 c169 (Link to this contribution) The Minister says that we finished an hour early, and I said a few minutes, so shall we agree on 60 ...
Ben Wallace | 477 c169-70 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Lady for giving way. She says that we had plenty of time in Committee, but...
Dari Taylor | 477 c169 (Link to this contribution) It is totally unfair to suggest that we have not had ample time to discuss this Bill. I am pleased t...
Peter Bone | 477 c167 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for my hon. Friend's intervention. There is much confusion around the House on this is...
Viscount Hailsham | 477 c167 (Link to this contribution) I support what my hon. Friend the Member for Wellingborough (Mr. Bone) and my right hon. Friend the ...
Anne Main | 477 c172 (Link to this contribution) Rattling through the process, as appears to be happening, may well be seen by many people outside as...
Mark Durkan | 477 c171-2 (Link to this contribution) I have a great deal of sympathy with many of the points being made about the pressure put on the Hou...
Richard Shepherd | 477 c170-1 (Link to this contribution) I think that the hon. Member for Stockton, South (Ms Taylor) slightly misled herself, inasmuch as sh...
Tony McNulty | 477 c172-3 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the hon. Member for Foyle (Mark Durkan) that this debate is largely a ritual, but it is...
Mark Durkan | 477 c172 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Lady for making that point. It is precisely the point that I had intended to come t...
Tom Brake | 477 c170 (Link to this contribution) I shall speak very briefly on the programme motion. There are many substantive proposals in the Bill...
Charles Walker | 477 c170 (Link to this contribution) What we are discussing over the next couple of days is of huge importance. It is probably some of th...
Dari Taylor | 477 c170 (Link to this contribution) The House is always faced with time problems, and there is always more business than time for discus...
Dominic Grieve | 477 c242 (Link to this contribution) My understanding—it may be the hon. Gentleman's—is that the reason the Government suddenly came forw...
Andrew Dismore | 477 c242 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for that intervention. He is right, and it is a point that I intended to ...
Lord Bellingham | 477 c241-2 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman mentioned public immunity certificates in his response to the intervention of the...
David Heath | 477 c243 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the hon. Gentleman that these are exactly the cases that should be given publicity. Eve...
Andrew Dismore | 477 c243 (Link to this contribution) I take your constraints, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I simply say that the inquest is due to reopen later th...
Speaker | 477 c243 (Link to this contribution) Order. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman is well aware of the sub judice rules. He should be careful...
Andrew Dismore | 477 c242-3 (Link to this contribution) The hon. and learned Gentleman is right. I was going to refer to the fact that I understood that thi...
Andrew Dismore | 477 c244-5 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. and learned Gentleman has made his point, and I do not disagree with it. Juries are ...
Andrew Dismore | 477 c244 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. We have very interesting relations with Saudi Arabia, a...
Viscount Hailsham | 477 c244 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has made an important point, namely that the family will have great difficulty in...
Andrew Dismore | 477 c245 (Link to this contribution) That is my next point. Amendments Nos. 1 to 3 would ditch this part of the Bill, and I hope that the...
Lord Bellingham | 477 c245 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is making a compelling case against the Government. Does he agree that his remark...
Lord Bellingham | 477 c246 (Link to this contribution) Obviously, my hon. and learned Friend's discussions with Home Office and Ministry of Justice officia...
Dominic Grieve | 477 c245-6 (Link to this contribution) I rise to support amendment No. 1, which is necessary and essential to preserve the integrity of the...
Lord Beith | 477 c247 (Link to this contribution) Also, any consequent legal proceedings—whether judicial review of the coroner's decision or an attem...
Dominic Grieve | 477 c246-7 (Link to this contribution) The Minister may be able to amplify the position when he responds. I was left with a twofold impress...
Viscount Hailsham | 477 c247 (Link to this contribution) My hon. and learned Friend is making a point about the public acceptability of inquest decisions. He...
Dominic Grieve | 477 c247 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman pre-empts me; he is absolutely right. What he says must be the case. The pr...
Dominic Grieve | 477 c247 (Link to this contribution) I agree entirely with my right hon. and learned Friend. I hope that he will forgive me; in developin...
David Heath | 477 c247-8 (Link to this contribution) That task would be made impossible if there were a process of certification through the Secretary of...
David Howarth | 477 c252 (Link to this contribution) It is a great pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Blackpool, North and Fleetwood (Mrs. Humble), w...
Joan Humble | 477 c251 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an interesting point. On Second Reading, I argued for the withdrawal of the rel...
Mark Durkan | 477 c251 (Link to this contribution) Is not the point that my right hon. Friend the Member for East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow (...
Joan Humble | 477 c251 (Link to this contribution) I thank my right hon. Friend for that. I do not pretend to understand English law, let alone Scottis...
Adam Ingram | 477 c250 (Link to this contribution) I appreciate my hon. Friend's great knowledge and her involvement in the issue, but I must correct h...
Joan Humble | 477 c249-50 (Link to this contribution) I listened with great care to my hon. Friend the Member for Hendon (Mr. Dismore), who made persuasiv...
Dominic Grieve | 477 c249 (Link to this contribution) I very much take it on board. I hope that the Minister will provide an explanation of how the Govern...
Adam Ingram | 477 c248 (Link to this contribution) May I ask the hon. and learned Gentleman to reflect on a point that relates to the Scottish element ...
Dominic Grieve | 477 c248 (Link to this contribution) I agree entirely with the hon. Gentleman; we come back to the rather administrative way in which the...
Jeremy Corbyn | 477 c252 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman must be aware that under clause 65 the Government in power would be able to inter...
Dominic Grieve | 477 c210 (Link to this contribution) On the Minister's point about the DPP, I find it difficult to envisage circumstances in which it cou...
Tony McNulty | 477 c210-1 (Link to this contribution) That is entirely fair and I am grateful to the hon. and learned Gentleman for dropping me a note to ...
Elfyn Llwyd | 477 c207 (Link to this contribution) Briefly, I, too, appreciate the work done by the hon. Member for Hendon (Mr. Dismore) and his Commit...
Mark Durkan | 477 c206 (Link to this contribution) As others have said, control orders are a difficult concept. Many of us have experience of control o...
Lord Deben | 477 c206-7 (Link to this contribution) I am not opposed to control orders, but I see them very much as a last resort. I return to the conti...
Dai Havard | 477 c210 (Link to this contribution) I believe that the right hon. Member for Suffolk, Coastal (Mr. Gummer) raised the question about the...
Tony McNulty | 477 c210 (Link to this contribution) But I—or, rather, the courts—have already suggested that we are obliged to ensure that the review an...
Dai Havard | 477 c209-10 (Link to this contribution) The Minister talks about the prospects of prosecution and who is involved in the process, but may I ...
Tony McNulty | 477 c210 (Link to this contribution) For precisely the reasons that I have just outlined—namely, what that might do to broader public pro...
Dominic Grieve | 477 c227-8 (Link to this contribution) I understand the point that the hon. Gentleman makes. Perhaps because I am a Conservative I am a bel...
Speaker | 477 c224 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following amendments: No. 111, page 20, line 39, at ...
Tony McNulty | 477 c225-7 (Link to this contribution) These amendments relate to three distinct provisions in the Bill: UK-wide jurisdiction, aggravated s...
Dominic Grieve | 477 c227 (Link to this contribution) First, may I say to the Minister, as I said earlier, that I welcome the Government's important conce...
Alistair Carmichael | 477 c227 (Link to this contribution) I am not without sympathy for that latter point, and it will perhaps have more significance tomorrow...
Tony McNulty | 477 c211-2 (Link to this contribution) In the broadest sense there is, but only within the context of everything else that is going on, rat...
Speaker | 477 c212 (Link to this contribution) Will the Serjeant at Arms investigate the delay in the No Lobby? The House having divided: Ayes 228...
Tony McNulty | 477 c224 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment No. 60, page 20, line 39, at end insert—
Andrew Dismore | 477 c211 (Link to this contribution) I gain the impression that my right hon. Friend is bringing his remarks to a close. I would like to ...
Tom Brake | 477 c229 (Link to this contribution) The difference in terrorist cases is the aggravating nature of the offence and the penalties that ar...
Viscount Hailsham | 477 c229 (Link to this contribution) Precisely that point arises on a plea of guilty to murder, for example. In the Criminal Justice Act ...
Tom Brake | 477 c229 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman might be right. We will not press the issue to a vote and, as it is unlikely that...
Dominic Grieve | 477 c229 (Link to this contribution) The point that I was making was that if there is a plea of guilty to an offence and there is a dispu...
Tom Brake | 477 c229 (Link to this contribution) That may be a point that my colleagues in the other place may wish to pursue. However, we are discus...
Pete Wishart | 477 c229 (Link to this contribution) It is not only the Lord Advocate who is no longer prepared to pursue this amendment. The Law Society...
Tom Brake | 477 c228 (Link to this contribution) I wish to speak in favour of the Liberal Democrat amendments Nos. 111 and 112, and to respond to the...
Tony McNulty | 477 c228 (Link to this contribution) The logic of that argument is that we should also include a presumption that the Attorney-General mu...
Dominic Grieve | 477 c228 (Link to this contribution) The disadvantage would be that where a relationship works well without such a requirement—and is the...
Alistair Carmichael | 477 c228 (Link to this contribution) Can the hon. and learned Gentleman see any disadvantage in adding the proposed words to the Bill?
Viscount Hailsham | 477 c232 (Link to this contribution) I want to address three matters. I shall begin with a comment on amendment No. 112, which was tabled...
Mark Durkan | 477 c230-2 (Link to this contribution) The Minister spoke on Government amendment No. 60 and said that the non-jury court provisions in Nor...
David Howarth | 477 c232 (Link to this contribution) Does the right hon. and learned Gentleman agree that the point of principle should be decided togeth...
Viscount Hailsham | 477 c233 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend is entirely right, and I should like to make two points in response to what he ...
Lord Deben | 477 c232-3 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. and learned Friend agree that we have come across this problem before, in a rathe...
David Heath | 477 c233 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. and learned Gentleman rightly said that the proposed powers are draconian. The high p...
Tom Brake | 477 c229 (Link to this contribution) I am at risk of taking a series of interventions from learned Members who may be better briefed on t...
David Heath | 477 c230 (Link to this contribution) Is not the difficulty the huge elevation in tariff that is possible by applying the terrorist tag to...
Tom Brake | 477 c230 (Link to this contribution) As the Minister said, my hon. Friend played a key part in Committee. His intervention is helpful in ...
Tony McNulty | 477 c235-6 (Link to this contribution) Okay, pantomime over. That is not the case at all. The hon. Gentleman is looking for an issue that s...
Alistair Carmichael | 477 c235 (Link to this contribution) I am absolutely astonished. The right hon. Gentleman's colleagues from north of the border will be f...
Tony McNulty | 477 c235 (Link to this contribution) May I say, unusually, what a profound displeasure it is to follow the rant of the hon. Member for Or...
Alistair Carmichael | 477 c236 (Link to this contribution) When it comes to bad pantomime dames, I will take lessons from the Minister. Does he not accept that...
Tony McNulty | 477 c236 (Link to this contribution) Only if the hon. Gentleman does not do a rather bad pantomime dame impression.
Pete Wishart | 477 c235 (Link to this contribution) I appreciate the hon. Gentleman's diligence on the issue, but does he not accept that the Lord Advoc...
Alistair Carmichael | 477 c235 (Link to this contribution) My goodness, I never thought I would see the day when the hon. Gentleman became the voice of the Sco...
Viscount Hailsham | 477 c233-4 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes a real point that I do not underestimate, and we all have to work out where...
Alistair Carmichael | 477 c234-5 (Link to this contribution) I shall not detain the House long, but I want to say a few words about amendment No. 111, to which m...
Andrew Dismore | 477 c239-40 (Link to this contribution) The amendments all refer to part 6 and the provisions on inquests and inquiries. This is the first c...
Tony McNulty | 477 c237 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful. Amendment agreed to. Amendment made: No. 9, page 20, line 40, leave out subsection ...
Tom Brake | 477 c237 (Link to this contribution) At the risk of giving the Minister some satisfaction, having listened to wiser counsel, and because ...
Speaker | 477 c238 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following: amendment No. 33, page 45, line 23, leave ...
Andrew Dismore | 477 c238 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment No. 1, page 45, line 12, leave out clause 65.
Viscount Hailsham | 477 c237 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman is being very helpful. He says that it should not be stated in the Bill tha...
Tony McNulty | 477 c237 (Link to this contribution) At the risk of stating the obvious, ““beyond reasonable doubt”” is absolutely central to all that we...
Elfyn Llwyd | 477 c237 (Link to this contribution) The Minister is generous to give way to me, because I have not taken part in this debate. The right ...
Tony McNulty | 477 c237 (Link to this contribution) I am not sure that that is the case. If we specified in the Bill that the judge must be satisfied be...
Tony McNulty | 477 c236 (Link to this contribution) But the substance of part 3 addresses precisely that point, and we think that it does so in an entir...
Andrew Dismore | 477 c241 (Link to this contribution) The hon. and learned Gentleman is entirely right. That is why I gave two different examples. My unde...
Dominic Grieve | 477 c241 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman touched on an important point, which is the lack of clarity in respect of who the...
Andrew Dismore | 477 c241 (Link to this contribution) On my hon. Friend's first question, public interest immunity certificates can be used, and I will re...
Jeremy Corbyn | 477 c241 (Link to this contribution) I compliment my hon. Friend on his speech. In his capacity as Chair of the Joint Committee on Human ...
Viscount Hailsham | 477 c240 (Link to this contribution) What makes matters worse, in a sense, is that the originating certificate is issued by the Secretary...
Andrew Dismore | 477 c241 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. and learned Gentleman is entirely right. That goes to the heart of the question of in...
Lord Beith | 477 c240 (Link to this contribution) A further problem that would be faced by the families is that a coroner might, on the basis of close...
Andrew Dismore | 477 c240 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman makes an important point. I agree. What is proposed in part 6 is no more a...
Joan Humble | 477 c240 (Link to this contribution) Is my hon. Friend aware that when Nicholas Blake produced a report given to the Government on the de...
Andrew Dismore | 477 c240 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an important point. The real question is whether the Deepcut cases would have e...
David Howarth | 477 c252-3 (Link to this contribution) It is extraordinarily dangerous. I know of only one other provision that allows the Government to in...
David Howarth | 477 c253-4 (Link to this contribution) That is a very important point. For example, in a case of a death in custody, if the Secretary of St...
Viscount Hailsham | 477 c253 (Link to this contribution) To build on the hon. Gentleman's comments, is there not an important general principle that it is su...
David Howarth | 477 c254-5 (Link to this contribution) I agree. In fact, those provisions are quite confusing. The special coroner can be removed for misbe...
Jeremy Corbyn | 477 c257 (Link to this contribution) As far as I am aware, the vast majority of jury coroners' inquests take place where the death involv...
Mark Durkan | 477 c255-7 (Link to this contribution) I am delighted to follow the hon. Member for Cambridge (David Howarth) and to support amendment No. ...
Lord Howard of Lympne | 477 c260-1 (Link to this contribution) I find myself in complete agreement with the points made in the series of powerful speeches about th...
Mark Durkan | 477 c257-60 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman reinforces the point that a number of hon. Members have made. The state might hav...
Dai Havard | 477 c261 (Link to this contribution) I know that a number of people wish to speak, so I shall keep my remarks short. It was interesting t...
Andrew Dismore | 477 c268-9 (Link to this contribution) We have had an interesting debate, and there has been unanimity across the House—apart from my right...
Tony McNulty | 477 c268 (Link to this contribution) With those reassurances, and leaving time for the principal mover of the amendments, which is only a...
Speaker | 477 c269 (Link to this contribution) It seems that the Tellers are rather late in coming before me, so I instruct the Serjeant at Arms to...
Dai Havard | 477 c261-2 (Link to this contribution) I knew I would get it wrong. My right hon. Friend was the Chair of the Defence Committee when we pro...
Richard Shepherd | 477 c262-3 (Link to this contribution) In a civilised society, every one of us, and the society itself, has an interest in the causes of th...
Richard Shepherd | 477 c263 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman has probably been listening to the Prime Minister and will come back with t...
Jeremy Corbyn | 477 c263-5 (Link to this contribution) I shall be brief to enable the Minister to reply and other Members to speak. I want the Minister to ...
Tony McNulty | 477 c265 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to prevent others from contributing, but I am mindful of the time. [Interruption.] The pr...
Lord Beith | 477 c265 (Link to this contribution) I understand what the Minister might be trying to do, but how has he met the tests that the Chilcot ...
Tony McNulty | 477 c265-6 (Link to this contribution) I accept that, and I applaud the implementation team on its work, as I do the right hon. Gentleman a...
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 477 c266 (Link to this contribution) I have no wish to add to my right hon. Friend's burden of explaining some of the contradictions in t...
Tony McNulty | 477 c266 (Link to this contribution) That is because, as my right hon. Friend knows, the High Court judge rather than the coroner sits in...
Tony McNulty | 477 c267 (Link to this contribution) With respect, no, given the time that I have and the hon. Gentleman's contribution.
Dominic Grieve | 477 c266-7 (Link to this contribution) May I just pick up on that point? The Minister's argument is that the provision is vital for a numbe...
Tony McNulty | 477 c267 (Link to this contribution) I do not accept that they are flawed, and I certainly do not accept that they are Kafkaesque, going ...
Tony McNulty | 477 c268 (Link to this contribution) With respect, no. I know that most people are entirely genuine in sharing a desire to see the resol...
Lord Spellar | 477 c267 (Link to this contribution) As the Minister is aware, I share the concerns about moving to the use of intercept evidence before ...
Tony McNulty | 477 c267-8 (Link to this contribution) That is entirely in the Government's thinking, not least because the only unfortunate thing in the w...
Tony McNulty | 477 c207-9 (Link to this contribution) I, too, welcome the work of the JCHR on control orders. Indeed, dwelling on control orders has becom...
Tony McNulty | 477 c182-3 (Link to this contribution) I do not doubt that that is an absolutely fair point, but it is not relevant to our deliberations. H...
Tobias Ellwood | 477 c171 (Link to this contribution) I wish to place on record my thoughts on the comments of the hon. Member for Stockton, South (Ms Tay...
Viscount Hailsham | 477 c232 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman says that the point of principle should be determined on its merits and not simpl...
Viscount Hailsham | 477 c254 (Link to this contribution) Is there not a third point, which was touched on by the hon. Member for Islington, North (Jeremy Cor...

Subjects

Disclosure of information
Data protection
Codes of practice
Crime prevention
Criminal investigation
Crime
Administration of justice
Detainees
Armed forces
Devolution
Coroners
Juries
Intelligence services
Documents
Northern Ireland
Police
Public participation
Police interrogation
Terrorism
Security
Anti-terrorism control orders

Legislation

Counter-terrorism Bill 2007-08
Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984

Link

View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk
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