Counter-Terrorism Bill (Programme) (No. 2)

I am delighted to follow the hon. Member for Cambridge (David Howarth) and to support amendment No. 1, along with amendments Nos. 2, 3 and 10. Clauses 65, 66, 67 and 69 are simply wrong; they are wrong in terms of the process that produced them, they are wrong in principle, and they will do wrong in practice. They are wrong in process because they came out of nowhere and were smuggled into a counter-terrorism Bill; the Government hoped to smuggle through these very controversial changes under the cover of the other controversies associated with the Bill that are more prominently featured in the media and elsewhere. The Government have told us all along that they wanted to create a consensus on counter-terrorism, and they went to some lengths to create all sorts of dialogues and discussions, although that did not particularly include the Northern Ireland parties, which I can understand in the prevailing circumstances. However, there was no consultation on the provisions before they appeared in the Bill, and since this matter was last discussed in the House there have, of course, been additions. Clause 66 will now extend some of the provisions on inquests to Northern Ireland, which was not previously the case. That clause 66 has been added to the Bill as an afterthought again shows how ad hoc the provisions are—it landed out of the blue in Committee. Public consultation is a legal duty in Northern Ireland. I hope that the Minister can clarify whether there was any consultation on this measure. Was there consultation with any of the Northern Ireland parties? Was there consultation with the Assembly? Will there be? Has there been consultation even with the Office of First Minister and Deputy First Minister? These sensitive proposed changes might give rise to a number of serious implications and complications regarding the devolution of justice and policing. Let me ask a simple question: to whom would the proposed powers be devolved in the event of the devolution of justice and policing—or will the Government insist that they should still reserve the powers to themselves on the grounds of national security and relations with other Governments? If that is the Government's view, it is a serious issue. Northern Ireland Office Ministers have been telling this House how wonderful agreements and consensus have been reached in the Committee of the Northern Ireland Assembly that was looking at issues to do with the devolution of justice and policing, and at the detail of the exact scope of the powers to be devolved and how they might be devolved. Yet the Government have now—wham, bam—thrown in this grenade, in circumstances in which the Prime Minister has personally been involved in talks including the new First Minister and Deputy First Minister to try to resolve some of the difficulties in the devolution of justice and policing. I hope that the Minister can provide some explanation or clarification, and if there has not been proper consultation or consideration I ask the Government to think about using that as at least one of the grounds on which they might consider withdrawing some or all of the clauses to allow for wider developments and for wider and proper discussions of all these issues later in the context of the coroners Bill. Those discussions would then take place with our knowing about the issues raised for Scotland and Northern Ireland, and we could address all the other fundamental points that Members have been expressing in this debate. Why this scramble? Why do that rather than await the coroners Bill, which the Prime Minister promised us when he made the statement on the legislative programme only a matter of days ago? If that new process introduced by the Prime Minister is to mean anything, we should properly respect that promised Bill and all eyes and all work should be focused on it, rather than try to piggyback in a grotesque way fundamental issues to do with coroners' courts into a counter-terrorism Bill, when the powers in respect of coroners' courts in the Bill are not restricted or confined to what could be defined as terrorist cases. Other hon. Members have made the point that these powers, which would apply UK-wide, could apply in cases of custodial death, military death or death in circumstances of pursuit or controversy, and in all sorts of health and safety cases where issues of negligence or malice might well arise, or be felt or suspected. Inquests are about affording families and the wider public a sense of truth and at least some basis of understanding. We cannot simply pat victims on the shoulder and then shrug our shoulders when it comes to their need for truth, understanding and a sense of justice, yet that is what we are getting in the Bill. The breadth of the powers in the clauses is striking. The Secretary of State will be able to remove a jury and a sitting coroner on almost limitless grounds—national security; relations with any other Government, no matter how bad their repute; and the public interest—to be defined at the whim and with the private knowledge of Ministers, but to be undisclosed and unexplained to the public, as ever. In short, the discretion is unlimited and untrammelled. The Secretary of State will have the power to sack juries and coroners if and when he likes. It is the Secretary of State who will have that power, not a judge, who makes a decision after hearing submissions from parties. A politician will control what this special area of the judicial branch of the state is to do. So much for the independence of the judiciary. It is not just any politician who will have this power, but one who will too often have a conflict of interest, as other hon. Members have said. Juries are required in inquests when there may have been wrongdoing or negligence on the part of the state, yet who will get to decide whether there is to be a jury? Who will get to decide whether to step in and put a stop to a certain coroner and jury if they do not like the way in which an inquest is going? Who will get to decide whether to appoint a select special coroner of their own? The answer is the Secretary of State, and that is a fairly breathtaking reach on the part of any Executive.