UK Parliament / Open data

Local Government and Public Involvement in Health Bill

Debate on bills on Monday, 22 January 2007, in the House of Commons, led by Ruth Kelly. The answering member was Caroline Spelman.

Local Government and Public Involvement in Health Bill. Second reading debate. Amendment negatived on division (206 to 283). Main question agreed to on division (280 to 206). Programme motion for proceedings in Committee, on Report and Third reading agreed to on division (271 to 199). Money resolution agreed to on question (formal).

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

455 c1144-258

Session

2006-07

Proceeding contributions

Caroline Spelman | 455 c1159 (Link to this contribution) Of course I consult the chairman of the LGA. That is why I am aware that the Secretary of State fail...

Caroline Spelman | 455 c1159-61 (Link to this contribution) The House is left in no doubt about my hon. Friend’s commitment to his constituents and those who li...

Show all contributions (248)

Daniel Kawczynski | 455 c1159 (Link to this contribution) I spoke to the LGA today—its name has been bandied around—and have been informed that if the Secreta...

Justine Greening | 455 c1163 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving way. My local council, Wandsworth, has a much lower g...

Neil Turner | 455 c1163-4 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady mentions value for money, but the important point is that when central Government give...

Andrew Gwynne | 455 c1164 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to my hon. Friend for giving way. He will know that, according to a number of ind...

David Leslie Taylor | 455 c1161 (Link to this contribution) Given that the Bill includes public involvement in health in its title, is the hon. Lady as surprise...

Caroline Spelman | 455 c1163 (Link to this contribution) The Chancellor is not sympathetic to localism; that stands to reason as he has spent the best part o...

Neil Turner | 455 c1163 (Link to this contribution) I welcome this very important Bill, which marks a significant shift in the balance of power from cen...

Robert Neill | 455 c1165 (Link to this contribution) I understand the hon. Gentleman’s point and I have some sympathy with his desire to recognise the pr...

Neil Turner | 455 c1165 (Link to this contribution) I am not quite sure where the hon. Gentleman is coming from—[Hon. Members: ““Shrewsbury!””] I will r...

Daniel Kawczynski | 455 c1164-5 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman says that the issue has not split people along party lines, but I can tell him th...

Neil Turner | 455 c1164 (Link to this contribution) Indeed I do. My hon. Friend raises a very important issue but if my reading of the Bill is right, it...

Alistair Burt | 455 c1168 (Link to this contribution) No decent monkey would put its name to this Bill.

Lord Stunell | 455 c1168-9 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman, from a sedentary position, makes an important point. What we have here is quant...

Neil Turner | 455 c1165-8 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend the Member for Denton and Reddish gave a little laugh at that, but I remind him that ...

Lord Stunell | 455 c1168 (Link to this contribution) When we heard that a White Paper was on its way and would be followed by a Bill, some of us thought ...

Neil Turner | 455 c1165 (Link to this contribution) I very much agree that that is essential. A few weeks ago, I had one of my regular meetings with rep...

Andrew Gwynne | 455 c1165 (Link to this contribution) Hah!

Lord Beamish | 455 c1154 (Link to this contribution) I cannot understand why the Government are fixated with the idea of leadership. Local government del...

Ruth Kelly | 455 c1154 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend describes a system of strong leadership. We want strong leadership everywhere. We hav...

Anne Main | 455 c1154 (Link to this contribution) I am a little confused. The Secretary of State made a comparison with a directly elected mayor. Howe...

Ruth Kelly | 455 c1154-5 (Link to this contribution) I must make progress. Given the time, I believe that Opposition Front Benchers, too, would appreciat...

Caroline Spelman | 455 c1155-6 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move,"That this House declines to give a second reading to the Local Government and Public ...

Daniel Kawczynski | 455 c1156 (Link to this contribution) Will my hon. Friend ensure that the Secretary of State gives strong advice to the chief executives o...

Caroline Spelman | 455 c1156 (Link to this contribution) I pay tribute to my hon. Friend’s efforts to secure a voice for the people of Shrewsbury on this imp...

Lord Beamish | 455 c1156 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Lady not agree that her own party has form on this matter? When it abolished the Great...

Caroline Spelman | 455 c1156-7 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman made a number of interesting observations during the Secretary of State’s speech....

Caroline Spelman | 455 c1157 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention, which shows precisely why the people of Shrewsbury are ...

Daniel Kawczynski | 455 c1157 (Link to this contribution) My borough council has commissioned two reports by professors at Oxford and Cambridge universities, ...

Caroline Spelman | 455 c1158 (Link to this contribution) If one is a serious localist, one should support the view of democratically elected local councillor...

Caroline Spelman | 455 c1158 (Link to this contribution) I must make some progress. With no warning and no consultation, the House is suddenly being asked t...

Ruth Kelly | 455 c1158-9 (Link to this contribution) It would have been better had the hon. Lady consulted more closely her colleague, the chairman of th...

Philip Dunne | 455 c1158 (Link to this contribution) Let me give my hon. Friend some guidance on what is happening in my area, which I share with my hon....

Caroline Spelman | 455 c1158 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend must await the answer to that question from the Secretary of State. He will also be a...

Daniel Kawczynski | 455 c1151 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Secretary of State for giving way again. She said that the Bill will empower lo...

Ruth Kelly | 455 c1151 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes a valid point that we are actively considering with local parishes. We are ...

Ruth Kelly | 455 c1151-2 (Link to this contribution) The principle behind the Bill is that it is local people who are best placed to determine such issue...

Ruth Kelly | 455 c1150 (Link to this contribution) I understand the issue that my hon. Friend raises. She will, of course, have seen the written minist...

Ruth Kelly | 455 c1150-1 (Link to this contribution) I must make some progress. The Bill is the start of a devolutionary process. Other ongoing work is ...

Ruth Kelly | 455 c1150 (Link to this contribution) Of course, there has been conversation on the subject between central and local government for a num...

Joan Walley | 455 c1150 (Link to this contribution) On the issue of directly elected mayors, will my right hon. Friend confirm for the record that the u...

Ruth Kelly | 455 c1150 (Link to this contribution) I will take one further intervention, and then I will move on to a different topic.

Ruth Kelly | 455 c1153-4 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a valid point, which is why we have embedded in the provisions the possibility ...

Tom Levitt | 455 c1153 (Link to this contribution) I strongly support the thrust of the Bill and many of the measures in it, but on the subject of coun...

Ruth Kelly | 455 c1153 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is familiar with the model of an elected mayor. What else is that? With the counc...

Greg Hands | 455 c1153 (Link to this contribution) Will the Secretary of State tell us about the fixed terms for council leaders? In the whole of the U...

Ruth Kelly | 455 c1153 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman will understand that it is no longer necessary to hold a referendum to move to a ...

Andrew Pelling | 455 c1152-3 (Link to this contribution) The discretion given to local councils to decide which model they wish to employ is a positive step ...

Ruth Kelly | 455 c1152 (Link to this contribution) There are separate powers, which are already established, for local communities and local citizens t...

David Burrowes | 455 c1152 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State mentioned community involvement in provision to keep the streets safe. If a c...

Ruth Kelly | 455 c1152 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes a serious point. In the White Paper, we made it clear that local authoritie...

Robert Neill | 455 c1152 (Link to this contribution) Does the Secretary of State accept the concerns of London Councils, which was previously known as th...

Ruth Kelly | 455 c1148 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend will understand that I am not able to comment on specific bids that may or may not ha...

Ronnie Campbell | 455 c1147-8 (Link to this contribution) Talking about referendums in local government, we had the assembly vote in Northumberland, when peop...

Ruth Kelly | 455 c1148 (Link to this contribution) It was clear when we set up this process that local councils wanted us to provide a short window of ...

David Howarth | 455 c1148 (Link to this contribution) I welcome the part of the Bill that makes it easier for councils to become single tier, but is not t...

Lord Beamish | 455 c1147 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend agree that one of the fundamental issues of representation and accountabil...

Peter Bone | 455 c1147 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State is making the point that local people should become more involved in decision...

Ruth Kelly | 455 c1147 (Link to this contribution) I understand the point that my hon. Friend makes, although he will of course recognise that the comm...

Ruth Kelly | 455 c1147 (Link to this contribution) I know that a number of colleagues want to come in on this issue. I will give way to my hon. Friend ...

Ruth Kelly | 455 c1147 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman will be aware that we are currently going through a process of inviting proposals...

Anne Main | 455 c1150 (Link to this contribution) May I refer the Secretary of State back to her earlier remarks, in which she said that local governm...

Ruth Kelly | 455 c1149-50 (Link to this contribution) I have full faith in my hon. Friend, but I do not recognise the account that he gives. That is certa...

Lord Beamish | 455 c1149 (Link to this contribution) Like the hon. Member for Cambridge (David Howarth), I support unitary authorities and welcome the me...

Ruth Kelly | 455 c1149 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend sets out extremely clearly and concisely my own view, which is that it is much better...

Paul Beresford | 455 c1148-9 (Link to this contribution) Does the Secretary of State agree that if there is a proposal, whatever its source, to go from two-t...

Ruth Kelly | 455 c1148 (Link to this contribution) I understand the position that the hon. Gentleman is taking towards the potential submission of a pr...

Patrick Hall | 455 c1149 (Link to this contribution) If my right hon. Friend reflects on the Banham process, she will agree that it did a lot of good wor...

Ruth Kelly | 455 c1149 (Link to this contribution) It will be for councils to demonstrate that they have a broad cross-section of support. Clearly that...

Gordon Prentice | 455 c1149 (Link to this contribution) The Liberal-controlled authority in Pendle talks about an ““exciting vision”” of a unitary authority...

Ruth Kelly | 455 c1149 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman will be aware that that has not been the case under different Governments. We hav...

Nick Raynsford | 455 c1146-7 (Link to this contribution) Might my right hon. Friend not reflect with me that it is rather bizarre for the Opposition to criti...

Ruth Kelly | 455 c1147 (Link to this contribution) I completely agree with my right hon. Friend, who makes a very important point: the measure will tak...

Andrew Pelling | 455 c1145-6 (Link to this contribution) Will the Secretary of State concede that by involving just local government in the process, it will ...

Ruth Kelly | 455 c1146 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has completely misunderstood the proposals in the Bill. This is about involving a...

Tony Baldry | 455 c1146 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State must understand the House’s confusion on the issue. Only last year, the Natio...

Ruth Kelly | 455 c1146 (Link to this contribution) I am afraid that hon. Members are showing their ignorance of the proposals in the Bill. In fact, pat...

Tony Baldry | 455 c1146 (Link to this contribution) The explanatory notes—

Ruth Kelly | 455 c1146 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman wants to intervene again. I shall be generous and let him have a go.

Tony Baldry | 455 c1146 (Link to this contribution) One thing that I think I can do is read the Queen’s English:"““Section 237 of the National Health Se...

Ruth Kelly | 455 c1145 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman will see my right hon. Friend the Minister of State on the Bench beside me to lis...

Ruth Kelly | 455 c1145 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman would do well to listen to Councillor Keith Mitchell, Conservative chair of Oxfor...

Bernard Jenkin | 455 c1145 (Link to this contribution) May I suggest that the Secretary of State conduct at least a consultation, but preferably a referend...

Speaker | 455 c1144 (Link to this contribution) I inform the House that I have selected the amendment in the name of the Leader of the Opposition.

Ruth Kelly | 455 c1144 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time. The Bill implements the majority of the pro...

John Redwood | 455 c1144 (Link to this contribution) As an opponent of it, I would be happy to do so, but I want to ask the Secretary of State a very sim...

Ruth Kelly | 455 c1144 (Link to this contribution) Of course we listened to the view of people in the north-east, but surely the right hon. Gentleman w...

John Redwood | 455 c1144 (Link to this contribution) Will the Secretary of State give way?

Ruth Kelly | 455 c1144 (Link to this contribution) In a moment. For decades, the relationship between local and central Government has swung between s...

Philip Dunne | 455 c1237 (Link to this contribution) Yes, 27,000 residents took the opportunity to vote on the proposal. This evening, I received the res...

Daniel Kawczynski | 455 c1237 (Link to this contribution) Twenty-seven thousand.

Phil Woolas | 455 c1237 (Link to this contribution) Do you support it?

Patrick Hall | 455 c1241 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Alistair Burt | 455 c1241 (Link to this contribution) The poll tax and history! How many years is that going to be tried on? Does the hon. Gentleman use i...

Eric Martlew | 455 c1241 (Link to this contribution) I have great admiration for the hon. Gentleman, but when he was an MP for Bury, did he vote in favou...

Alistair Burt | 455 c1240-1 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman made powerful interventions on the Secretary of State to make it clear that the p...

Ronnie Campbell | 455 c1240 (Link to this contribution) We have had a referendum in Northumberland, and we agreed on what the county council did not agree o...

Alistair Burt | 455 c1237-40 (Link to this contribution) I welcome the many good contributions to the debate from both sides of the Chamber—many of which hav...

Robert Neill | 455 c1233-4 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry, but I cannot give way to the Minister, because time is so short. I appreciate his courte...

Charles Walker | 455 c1236 (Link to this contribution) But does my hon. Friend agree?

Philip Dunne | 455 c1236 (Link to this contribution) That was most helpful. My hon. Friend makes a perceptive intervention, as ever.

Philip Dunne | 455 c1236-7 (Link to this contribution) I happily agree with the comments made in that direction. Let me consider the two principal matters...

Phil Woolas | 455 c1236 (Link to this contribution) indicated assent.

Philip Dunne | 455 c1235-6 (Link to this contribution) I am pleased to have the opportunity to address the Minister while he is in his place. To my surpris...

Charles Walker | 455 c1236 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that too often, frivolous complaints to the standards committee have been ...

Philip Dunne | 455 c1236 (Link to this contribution) I am also concerned about the increasing centralisation of control of the standards committee. A num...

Phil Woolas | 455 c1245-6 (Link to this contribution) Points made on the numbers can be debated in Committee, should the House agree to the Bill’s Second ...

Andrew Pelling | 455 c1244-5 (Link to this contribution) I know that the Minister is not prescribing, but there is an enthusiasm for directly elected mayors....

Alistair Burt | 455 c1241-2 (Link to this contribution) No. We have seen the danger. It is time to take some risks and restore trust and discretion. Our op...

Alistair Burt | 455 c1242 (Link to this contribution) My advice is that they are entitled to think what they like and take their own decisions, and they s...

Phil Woolas | 455 c1242-3 (Link to this contribution) I did not expect such an exciting flourish at the finish from the hon. Member for North-East Bedford...

Phil Woolas | 455 c1243 (Link to this contribution) No, I will not give way at this point. Mr. Heseltine admitted in the Local Government Chronicle that...

Andrew Pelling | 455 c1244 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister give way?

Phil Woolas | 455 c1243-4 (Link to this contribution) I will not give way. We have plenty of time in which to debate these issues. The timetable for consu...

Phil Woolas | 455 c1244 (Link to this contribution) Not now, as I want to finish the point that I am making. I am normally generous in taking interventi...

John Pugh | 455 c1169 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend will know that no serious research has been done on the existing executive arrangemen...

Lord Beith | 455 c1170 (Link to this contribution) Where is the Secretary of State going? My hon. Friend is talking about her.

Lord Stunell | 455 c1169-70 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right. I have had informal discussions with the Audit Commission about ...

Joan Walley | 455 c1170 (Link to this contribution) I wonder whether the hon. Gentleman agrees that the position in Stoke-on-Trent is unique, because it...

Lord Stunell | 455 c1170 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State has heard this already; she made the statement. Of the governance of Stoke-on...

Lord Stunell | 455 c1170 (Link to this contribution) I certainly understand the point that the hon. Lady makes, but the model that Stoke has was set up b...

Phil Woolas | 455 c1170 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving way, because it gives me the opportunity to reassure ...

Lord Stunell | 455 c1170-4 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for what the Minister has said, but I am sure that he will agree that with regard to t...

Lord Stunell | 455 c1174 (Link to this contribution) I shall give way to the hon. Member for Pendle (Mr. Prentice).

Gordon Prentice | 455 c1174 (Link to this contribution) What advice about consulting the views of local people would the hon. Gentleman give to Liberal coun...

Alison Seabeck | 455 c1175-6 (Link to this contribution) The Bill, which was described to us today by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State as a platfo...

Lord Stunell | 455 c1174 (Link to this contribution) I have the advantage not only of the hon. Gentleman’s intervention, but of a phone call from Lord Gr...

Andrew Love | 455 c1180 (Link to this contribution) I am listening carefully to what the right hon. Gentleman has to say. Can we summarise it as the Cur...

David Curry | 455 c1179-80 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Plymouth, Devonport (Alison Seabeck), who has made an...

Alison Seabeck | 455 c1177-9 (Link to this contribution) Yes, I agree. In Committee, we have some scope to make progress on that. My hon. Friend mentioned ar...

Andrew Gwynne | 455 c1176-7 (Link to this contribution) As my hon. Friend knows, on several occasions I have raised examples of leisure trusts or arm’s leng...

David Curry | 455 c1180-3 (Link to this contribution) I do not think that there is a contradiction, because there are different circumstances. There are t...

Eric Martlew | 455 c1183-5 (Link to this contribution) I am pleased to follow the right hon. Member for Skipton and Ripon (Mr. Curry). His speech was wide-...

David Curry | 455 c1180 (Link to this contribution) It is always boring when people start sentences with the words, ““When I was a Minister,”” but I inh...

Lord Stunell | 455 c1180 (Link to this contribution) I am interested in what the right hon. Gentleman says, but does he accept that there is a contradict...

Mark Pritchard | 455 c1191 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the Standards Board for England has done a lot to undermine the c...

Peter Soulsby | 455 c1191 (Link to this contribution) Many local councillors share that perception, but the problem also stems in part from the denigratio...

Anne Main | 455 c1191 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that people do not choose to serve more than one term because they are...

Peter Soulsby | 455 c1190-1 (Link to this contribution) I welcome many aspects of the Bill, but like many other hon. Members who care about the future of lo...

Peter Soulsby | 455 c1191-2 (Link to this contribution) I believe that the Standards Board has done an enormous amount to raise standards in local governmen...

Lord Beith | 455 c1189 (Link to this contribution) Well, the county managed to get through a peculiar motion that said that it recognised both bids, bu...

Lord Beith | 455 c1190 (Link to this contribution) There is common ground between us on that point. People can put forward different models and the Gov...

Fraser Kemp | 455 c1190 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the right hon. Gentleman, because strong leadership requires strong accountability. The...

Lord Beith | 455 c1190 (Link to this contribution) When I see a barmy proposal, I say that I think that it is barmy. The point that I am putting to the...

Phil Woolas | 455 c1189 (Link to this contribution) First, I remind the House that it was the right hon. Gentleman’s party that argued to retain that sy...

Ronnie Campbell | 455 c1188 (Link to this contribution) Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that if we were to have a referendum, support for the two unitar...

Ronnie Campbell | 455 c1188 (Link to this contribution) Turkeys do not like Christmas.

Lord Beith | 455 c1188 (Link to this contribution) That is true, and reminds me of the old saying, ““Why look in the crystal ball when you can read the...

Patrick Hall | 455 c1189 (Link to this contribution) In the circumstances that the right hon. Gentleman has just described, how could any council put for...

Lord Beith | 455 c1188-9 (Link to this contribution) Indeed. The options that would be widely acceptable are the two unitaries option, or making the two-...

Eric Martlew | 455 c1185 (Link to this contribution) In a moment. The idea is to increase the number of area councillors to four—one for west Cumbria, on...

Daniel Kawczynski | 455 c1185 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Ronnie Campbell | 455 c1186 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman is right to mention the decision that the Labour group took last week. In f...

Lord Beith | 455 c1185-6 (Link to this contribution) I am glad to follow the hon. Member for Carlisle (Mr. Martlew), and I want to present what is a rath...

Roberta Blackman-Woods | 455 c1227 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention and hope that the process will be used most in the circ...

Andrew Gwynne | 455 c1227 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that councillors who do their job properly should be able to deal with maj...

Lord Beamish | 455 c1230-2 (Link to this contribution) I strongly support local government—it is an important part of public life in Britain—and I should l...

Daniel Kawczynski | 455 c1227-30 (Link to this contribution) I shall have to curtail my comments significantly, as we are coming to the end of the debate and I w...

Robert Neill | 455 c1232-3 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for North Durham (Mr. Jones). I agree with practically ev...

Alistair Burt | 455 c1225 (Link to this contribution) Yes, two.

Speaker | 455 c1225 (Link to this contribution) Order. Interventions should be made in an orderly fashion, not from sedentary positions.

Roberta Blackman-Woods | 455 c1225 (Link to this contribution) I should point out to the hon. Gentlemen that the people voted in favour of one county unitary autho...

Phil Woolas | 455 c1225 (Link to this contribution) It may assist the House if I point out that Northumberland and Durham are separate counties.

Roberta Blackman-Woods | 455 c1225-7 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to my hon. Friend for that intervention, because it had not dawned on me that Opp...

Lord Pickles | 455 c1225 (Link to this contribution) Like the hon. Lady I have worked in a unitary authority, but I also respect democracy. Not so long a...

Roberta Blackman-Woods | 455 c1224-5 (Link to this contribution) I welcome the Bill and applaud the Government for introducing enabling legislation that allows local...

David Burrowes | 455 c1221-4 (Link to this contribution) As a member of one of the early standards committees, I welcomed its efforts to ensure that complain...

Martin Salter | 455 c1221 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman share my concern about a further diminution of local councillors’ powers? He...

Lord Pickles | 455 c1225 (Link to this contribution) Two unitary authorities.

Roberta Blackman-Woods | 455 c1225 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for that intervention, but in the referendum on the regional assembly the...

Martin Salter | 455 c1221 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

David Burrowes | 455 c1221 (Link to this contribution) I will give way very briefly, as others wish to speak.

Phil Woolas | 455 c1220 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman says that he welcomes the changes in the performance regime. As he will know, the...

David Burrowes | 455 c1221 (Link to this contribution) I recognise that Enfield council, under Conservative control, has greatly improved local services, b...

Clive Efford | 455 c1220 (Link to this contribution) I will not, because I am about to sit down. I have been speaking long enough, and I know that others...

Martin Salter | 455 c1220 (Link to this contribution) Will my hon. Friend give way?

David Burrowes | 455 c1220 (Link to this contribution) The White Paper should bode well, in view of the names of such documents, such as ““A stronger local...

Clive Efford | 455 c1216-8 (Link to this contribution) I welcome parts of the Bill; there are other parts that bemuse me, and others to which I am violentl...

Anne Main | 455 c1215-6 (Link to this contribution) I note the hon. Gentleman’s comment from a sedentary position: not having been a member of the GLC, ...

Clive Efford | 455 c1218-20 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for giving me the opportunity to clarify that. It is very much central...

Phil Woolas | 455 c1218 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend talks about the centralisation of neighbourhood renewal. The Department funds neighbo...

Joan Walley | 455 c1209-12 (Link to this contribution) As was said by the hon. Members for Wyre Forest (Dr. Taylor) and for Billericay (Mr. Baron) and my h...

Martin Salter | 455 c1215 (Link to this contribution) Like the Greater London council.

Richard Taylor | 455 c1208-9 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. Of course adequate funding is essential; that needs...

Lord Stunell | 455 c1208 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is making some important points about the Commission for Patient and Public Invol...

David Burrowes | 455 c1207 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman share my concern that the Minister and her Department have set great store b...

Richard Taylor | 455 c1206-7 (Link to this contribution) I feared that part 11 would be rather neglected, so I am delighted to follow the hon. Members for Be...

Patrick Hall | 455 c1205-6 (Link to this contribution) A great deal of work needs to be done, and as far as I am concerned—I have not heard anything to the...

John Baron | 455 c1205 (Link to this contribution) Briefly, does the hon. Gentleman accept that it does not bode well for greater clarity about qualifi...

Patrick Hall | 455 c1205 (Link to this contribution) I was hoping to conclude, but yes, I give way.

Patrick Hall | 455 c1204-5 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that helpful intervention, but on that subject, one of the Bill’s strong points is...

John Baron | 455 c1205 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

David Drew | 455 c1200 (Link to this contribution) I concur with the hon. Gentleman, because my PPI forum members have told me that they feel that this...

John Baron | 455 c1200 (Link to this contribution) Let us be absolutely honest: we do not believe that the Government actually wanted the power to ente...

Baroness Winterton of Doncaster | 455 c1201 (Link to this contribution) To clarify the issue, I think that patients forums would agree that it is important to make sure tha...

John Baron | 455 c1201 (Link to this contribution) The trouble is that the Minister cannot have it both ways. Patients forums have that power to inspec...

Speaker | 455 c1201 (Link to this contribution) Order. The average length of Back-Bench speeches is increasing. That will have a disadvantageous eff...

Patrick Hall | 455 c1201-3 (Link to this contribution) I will certainly bear that sensible advice in mind. As we have already heard from a number of contri...

John Baron | 455 c1203 (Link to this contribution) Further to that point, why does the hon. Gentleman think that the words ““inspect”” and ““inspection...

Patrick Hall | 455 c1203 (Link to this contribution) That is one of the questions that we can ask Ministers, and one of the points that we can pursue in ...

Baroness Winterton of Doncaster | 455 c1204 (Link to this contribution) I should like to try to address some of the issues on that point, and say why it is important that w...

John Baron | 455 c1200 (Link to this contribution) I hear what the Minister is saying, but the fact remains that many of those who were consulted—certa...

John Baron | 455 c1198 (Link to this contribution) Only time will tell. All I suggest to the Minister is that such a vague approach was adopted when sc...

John Baron | 455 c1198 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for her intervention, but the problem is that that approach was adopted when CH...

Baroness Winterton of Doncaster | 455 c1198 (Link to this contribution) I want to pick up on the point about qualifications. We do not want to be prescriptive from the cent...

John Baron | 455 c1199 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the hon. Gentleman. Again, I repeat that it does not bode well for the Health Minister’...

Patrick Hall | 455 c1199 (Link to this contribution) I take the issue of independence seriously, but the hon. Gentleman should bear in mind the fact that...

John Baron | 455 c1198-9 (Link to this contribution) I agree with that in large part, and I want to come to that in a moment. Without real teeth, what is...

John Baron | 455 c1199 (Link to this contribution) Yes, except that there are one or two differences, including how CHCs were funded. In answer to the ...

Baroness Winterton of Doncaster | 455 c1200 (Link to this contribution) One of the clearest things that came from our consultation on the future of patients forums was that...

Peter Soulsby | 455 c1195 (Link to this contribution) I was not proposing directly elected mayors as a panacea for all the ills of local government. As I ...

Joan Walley | 455 c1195 (Link to this contribution) As my hon. Friend feels that an elected mayor would be most in the interests of democracy, will he t...

Peter Soulsby | 455 c1195-6 (Link to this contribution) The option would be perfectly compatible with that aim. Alongside a directly elected mayor must be a...

John Baron | 455 c1196-7 (Link to this contribution) I agree in some measure with much of what the hon. Member for Leicester, South (Sir Peter Soulsby) h...

Kelvin Hopkins | 455 c1194 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate my hon. Friend on surviving 17 AGMs—he must have been a splendid council leader to in...

Peter Soulsby | 455 c1194 (Link to this contribution) My notes must have been shared among my hon. Friends as well as with Opposition Members; my hon. Fri...

Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 455 c1194-5 (Link to this contribution) I defer to the hon. Gentleman’s greater local government experience—I served for only eight years on...

Clive Efford | 455 c1197 (Link to this contribution) Before the hon. Gentleman goes any further down the road with community health councils, some of us ...

Baroness Winterton of Doncaster | 455 c1197-8 (Link to this contribution) I would like to clarify a point. We have made it very clear that we hope members of patients forums ...

David Burrowes | 455 c1192 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman share my profound concern that the option of a committee structure is, with ...

Peter Soulsby | 455 c1192-3 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman must have been reading my notes, as I shall come to that in a few moments. If we...

Clive Efford | 455 c1192 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that we should consider how people value the councillor’s role? If that ro...

Peter Soulsby | 455 c1192 (Link to this contribution) Yes. I have no doubt that the way in which candidates and councillors see their role has an impact o...

Lord Beamish | 455 c1192 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that people will not get involved in politics, and take the scrutiny role ...

Peter Soulsby | 455 c1192 (Link to this contribution) I very much agree with my hon. Friend. I welcome the measures to strengthen the scrutiny role, but I...

Lord Beamish | 455 c1193 (Link to this contribution) I used to be on a finance committee, where we could stop and change decisions, and question officers...

Peter Soulsby | 455 c1193-4 (Link to this contribution) I chaired many local government committees and chaired the policy and resources committee for a numb...

Kelvin Hopkins | 455 c1193 (Link to this contribution) I am most interested in what my hon. Friend is saying, but was not the reform that created the cabin...

Peter Soulsby | 455 c1193 (Link to this contribution) The reform may have been effective in the way my hon. Friend suggests, although I do not recall that...

Caroline Spelman | 455 c1161-2 (Link to this contribution) Another cogent case has been made for membership of the Standing Committee. The hon. Gentleman has a...

Philip Dunne | 455 c1237 (Link to this contribution) I assure the Minister that I do not support the bid for unitary status. I have worked closely with m...

Anne Main | 455 c1212-5 (Link to this contribution) It is a delight to follow the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent, North (Joan Walley). I want to look at...

Richard Taylor | 455 c1207-8 (Link to this contribution) I could not agree more. There are very effective forums that enjoy a tremendously good working relat...

Lord Beamish | 455 c1198 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the fundamental problem with this so-called reform, like a lot of...

Eric Martlew | 455 c1158 (Link to this contribution) I have a simple question: does the hon. Lady support the Conservative leader of Cumbria county counc...

Daniel Kawczynski | 455 c1148 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State has encouraged me greatly, because she has given the House the impression—thi...

John Baron | 455 c1145 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State rightly focuses on local government. Given that part 11 of the Bill fundament...

John Pugh | 455 c1234-5 (Link to this contribution) May I begin by congratulating the hon. Member for North Durham (Mr. Jones) on his contribution? I ho...

Patrick Hall | 455 c1242 (Link to this contribution) With regard to bids by the Conservative groups on Bedfordshire county council, South Bedfordshire di...

Lord Beith | 455 c1186-8 (Link to this contribution) Indeed, and I shall deal with this point in a little more detail in a moment. Perhaps both the hon. ...

Richard Younger-Ross | 455 c1199 (Link to this contribution) Would the hon. Gentleman be surprised to find out that, in Devon, when the PCT was considering makin...

Ruth Kelly | 455 c1154 (Link to this contribution) I described a directly elected mayoral system and an indirectly elected leader system. They are not ...

John Redwood | 455 c1157 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is making a powerful argument. Is it not the case that the Government have no intenti...

Caroline Spelman | 455 c1158 (Link to this contribution) I thank my right hon. Friend for that intervention. I suspect that the R word—referendum—does instil...

David Heath | 455 c1151 (Link to this contribution) The Somerset Association of Local Councils has raised a narrow but important point about parish coun...

Ruth Kelly | 455 c1146 (Link to this contribution) I thought that I had just made myself clear that there were reasons why the legislation had to be dr...

John Baron | 455 c1197 (Link to this contribution) What I would say is that the CHCs were operating very well when we left office and they continued to...