UK Parliament / Open data

Transport (Wales) Bill

Debate on bills on Thursday, 16 June 2005, in the House of Commons, led by Lord Hain. The answering member was Bill Wiggin.

Transport (Wales) Bill. Second reading debate. Agreed to on question. Programme motion for proceedings in Committee, Report and Third reading agreed to on question (formal). Money resolution agreed to on question (formal).

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

435 c409-73

Session

2005-06

Transport (Wales) Bill. Explanatory Notes Bill 4-EN also published
Thursday, 19 May 2005
Bills
House of Commons

Proceeding contributions

Peter Law | 435 c447-51 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to you, Madam Deputy Speaker, for calling me to make my maiden speech this aftern...

Martyn Jones | 435 c451-2 (Link to this contribution) It is customary in this place to make warm comments about hon. Members maiden speeches. I have no di...

Show all contributions (148)

Hywel Williams | 435 c452-3 (Link to this contribution) May I first refer to the speech made by the hon. Member for Blaenau Gwent (Peter Law)—or my hon. Fri...

Sian C James | 435 c455-7 (Link to this contribution) I am pleased to have the opportunity to speak in the debate on Second Reading of the Transport (Wale...

Hywel Williams | 435 c453-5 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for that reassurance. During the summer, we will still be down on the services....

Lembit Opik | 435 c459 (Link to this contribution) I just muse that Cardiff international airport must be the only airport of its size that requires on...

Albert Owen | 435 c460 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman says that there is no demand for transport between north and south, but I tried t...

David TC Davies | 435 c459-60 (Link to this contribution) Indeed. That brings me on to why has the Welsh Assembly not developed some sort of viable road link ...

Stephen Crabb | 435 c443 (Link to this contribution) That is exactly my view, and the hon. Gentleman expresses it better than I did.

Stephen Crabb | 435 c444 (Link to this contribution) I apologise, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I am puzzled by how clause 11(2) will work in practice. Perhaps th...

Speaker | 435 c444 (Link to this contribution) Order. I gently remind the hon. Gentleman that he must use the correct parliamentary language when a...

Stephen Crabb | 435 c443-4 (Link to this contribution) It is not impossible to quantify the benefit. We know that £2.5 million of taxpayers’ money has alre...

Albert Owen | 435 c443 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman says that he is not against subsidies in principle, but he is worried about ongoi...

David Jones | 435 c446 (Link to this contribution) : The hon. Gentleman is making an important point, but does it not support the concern expressed ear...

Ian Lucas | 435 c444-6 (Link to this contribution) I am very pleased to follow the hon. Member for Preseli Pembrokeshire (Mr. Crabb). This is the first...

Stephen Crabb | 435 c444 (Link to this contribution) I recognise those arguments, but it would be helpful to see further research on the matter. If compa...

Lembit Opik | 435 c444 (Link to this contribution) I just wanted to explain why I focused so much on air transport. It is because this is the enabling ...

Ian Lucas | 435 c446-7 (Link to this contribution) I do not know that what I said supports the point made by the hon. Member for Leominster (Bill Wiggi...

Martin Caton | 435 c438-41 (Link to this contribution) Like my hon. Friend the Member for Ynys Môn (Albert Owen), I was a member of the Select Committee th...

Lembit Opik | 435 c436-8 (Link to this contribution) That is the most extraordinary question that I have been asked in the House for a long time. I am a ...

Lembit Opik | 435 c443 (Link to this contribution) In that case, would the hon. Gentleman oppose any Government money going towards the improvement of ...

Stephen Crabb | 435 c441-3 (Link to this contribution) I welcome the Under-Secretary of State for Wales to his new role and wish him all the best in it. W...

Albert Owen | 435 c436 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman knows that a study of intra-Wales air links has already been undertaken by the Na...

Lembit Opik | 435 c435-6 (Link to this contribution) I could provide many examples of industrialists who regard access to good airport facilities in Wale...

David TC Davies | 435 c436 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman is so convinced that it is a viable business proposition, would he be willing ...

Lembit Opik | 435 c436 (Link to this contribution) Actually, there were two of them. I am rather surprised by the apparent level of ignorance of the ex...

Stephen Crabb | 435 c443 (Link to this contribution) No, I am not saying that, but I am wary of subsidies being used. I think that they should be used on...

Lembit Opik | 435 c443 (Link to this contribution) That was a helpful clarification. As I understand it, the hon. Gentleman would be concerned if the f...

Lembit Opik | 435 c435 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has obviously done his own research, but I want to ask him what conversations he ...

David Jones | 435 c434-5 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman not accept that the take-up for such a service is more likely to include civ...

Lembit Opik | 435 c434 (Link to this contribution) On the first point, the Liberal Democrats view emissions trading as the right approach so that accou...

Ian Lucas | 435 c434 (Link to this contribution) I heard a great deal during the general election campaign from the Liberal Democrat candidate about ...

Lembit Opik | 435 c434 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman would like to see the benefits of a north-south link, I would be happy to take...

David TC Davies | 435 c434 (Link to this contribution) If we secured a north-south Wales air link, would the hon. Gentleman consider leaving his parliament...

Lembit Opik | 435 c433 (Link to this contribution) On the assumption that there will be further praise for my hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff, Centr...

David Jones | 435 c435 (Link to this contribution) I fully take the point that there is a demand for regional air services both coming into and going o...

Bill Wiggin | 435 c435 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is being unnecessarily uncharitable to me. The Bill is not about whether or not a...

Lembit Opik | 435 c435 (Link to this contribution) The only reason I am going on about it is, if I may say so without sounding childish, that the hon. ...

Lembit Opik | 435 c433 (Link to this contribution) Unfortunately, because of the decision made by the Conservatives at the time, it does not look feasi...

Bill Wiggin | 435 c433 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is sitting next to his party’s transport spokesman. Could he tell us what the Lib...

Lembit Opik | 435 c432-3 (Link to this contribution) At the time I did not think so, but looking back I would give anything to return to the flawed but m...

Bill Wiggin | 435 c430-1 (Link to this contribution) Following our earlier discussion of air transport, I understood that the hon. Gentleman had made the...

Albert Owen | 435 c431 (Link to this contribution) To get back to the Bill, it obviously deals with the intra-Wales link between Cardiff and Swansea an...

Lembit Opik | 435 c432 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has confirmed from a sedentary position that he has a strong view on the matter. ...

Lembit Opik | 435 c431-2 (Link to this contribution) Ever since the hills and valleys of Wales were formed some time in the ice age, Wales has been diffi...

Bill Wiggin | 435 c432 (Link to this contribution) Utter nonsense.

David Jones | 435 c430 (Link to this contribution) Has the hon. Gentleman any information as to the likely take-up of such an air service from Anglesey...

Albert Owen | 435 c428-30 (Link to this contribution) The scheme being undertaken started with the figure of 48, and there could be six to eight flights a...

David TC Davies | 435 c430 (Link to this contribution) I enjoy the hon. Gentleman’s vision of thousands of tourists arriving in port and immediately catchi...

Albert Owen | 435 c430 (Link to this contribution) It is difficult to comment, but if the hon. Gentleman had been listening rather than talking to the ...

Albert Owen | 435 c430 (Link to this contribution) I have to disagree with the hon. Gentleman. There are many significant things to see in north-west W...

Lord Hain | 435 c426 (Link to this contribution) I will not stray outside the terms of the debate, but I was intrigued by the assertion that the hon....

Speaker | 435 c426 (Link to this contribution) Order. We are not debating the existence of the Welsh Assembly. The hon. Gentleman should proceed wi...

Bill Wiggin | 435 c427 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I shall take your wise advice gratefully, but I would have loved to c...

David Jones | 435 c428 (Link to this contribution) How many passengers could each of those light aircraft accommodate?

Bill Wiggin | 435 c426 (Link to this contribution) My personal views on the continuation of the Assembly are widely known, but the question of whether ...

Lord Hain | 435 c426 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman sounds moderate and reasonable, which is untypical. However, he wants to abolish ...

Bill Wiggin | 435 c426 (Link to this contribution) When the hon. Gentleman gets up in the morning and decides not to be churlish, he should stick to th...

Hywel Williams | 435 c425-6 (Link to this contribution) : I do not intend to be churlish today, but perhaps I could refer the hon. Gentleman to the extensiv...

Bill Wiggin | 435 c425 (Link to this contribution) Let me be clear: to have the debate we need to go through the arguments. Clearly, some hon. Members ...

Chris Bryant | 435 c425 (Link to this contribution) Yes.

Albert Owen | 435 c425 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that it is important to add the time that businesses save to the per-m...

Bill Wiggin | 435 c425 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman and I visited RAF Valley together, and he must bear in mind the environmental imp...

Chris Bryant | 435 c425 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is an extremely magnanimous person. He just said, ““some might argue””, and then ...

Bill Wiggin | 435 c425 (Link to this contribution) I am not inclined to use weasel words—I leave that to the Labour party. The best possible use should...

Lembit Opik | 435 c424 (Link to this contribution) I want to clarify the Conservative position, because there is cross-party support for an intra-Wales...

Bill Wiggin | 435 c424 (Link to this contribution) I referred to people who might argue that the money could be better spent elsewhere, because the deb...

Bill Wiggin | 435 c424-5 (Link to this contribution) I knew that I should not give way again to the hon. Gentleman. I will not confirm our position one w...

Lembit Opik | 435 c422 (Link to this contribution) I return to the hon. Gentleman’s point about the phrase ““as soon as practicable””, which looks like...

Bill Wiggin | 435 c420-2 (Link to this contribution) I have a pressing engagement in my constituency, but I shall not share the full details of my diary ...

Albert Owen | 435 c424 (Link to this contribution) : The extra money from the Welsh Assembly budget will be spent on a subsidised transport system. Doe...

Bill Wiggin | 435 c422-4 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has made his point to the Minister. We will seek to tease out the details in Comm...

Lord Hain | 435 c420 (Link to this contribution) The Welsh Assembly Government, especially under the new provisions setting out the distinction betwe...

Bill Wiggin | 435 c420 (Link to this contribution) May I begin by apologising to the House, as I shall not be able to remain for the closing speeches? ...

Lord Hain | 435 c419 (Link to this contribution) I do not know offhand whether it was all constructed under the last Conservative Administration. The...

Albert Owen | 435 c419 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Secretary of State for giving way and the hon. Member for Clwyd, West (Mr. Jones) for le...

Lord Hain | 435 c418-9 (Link to this contribution) Most of that increase was eaten up by inflation. The hon. Gentleman knows that under the Conservativ...

David Jones | 435 c419 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State mentioned the extension of the A55 across Anglesey. Will he concede that by f...

Lord Hain | 435 c419 (Link to this contribution) I can assure you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, that I read about nothing else when I go to bed except the his...

Tom Brake | 435 c419-20 (Link to this contribution) Is there a risk that it might become burdensome for the Assembly to review each local transport plan...

Speaker | 435 c419 (Link to this contribution) Order. The history of transport in Wales is, of course, very interesting, but perhaps we could retur...

David TC Davies | 435 c418 (Link to this contribution) : Whatever else we may say about the Secretary of State, he has been generous in giving way. He once...

Lord Hain | 435 c418 (Link to this contribution) That is masses of more money. In fact, it is double the miserable inheritance that we were left by t...

Elfyn Llwyd | 435 c417 (Link to this contribution) Why did the right hon. Gentleman not give that response to the hon. Member for Ynys Môn (Albert Owen...

Lord Hain | 435 c417 (Link to this contribution) I am not covering up anything and I never give woolly answers, certainly not to my hon. Friends. The...

Chris Bryant | 435 c417 (Link to this contribution) : On the slightly different issue of how we ensure that the integrated policy is not just about tran...

Lord Hain | 435 c417 (Link to this contribution) That is exactly the problem that we need to address, and the Bill helps us do that. I shall ask my h...

Lembit Opik | 435 c418 (Link to this contribution) At the risk of sounding like an aviation anorak—perish the thought—the most sensible way to fund the...

Lord Hain | 435 c418 (Link to this contribution) We have to consider the specifics. If there is the possibility of leveraging in—or flying in—more mo...

Ian Lucas | 435 c418 (Link to this contribution) : Does my right hon. Friend agree that the hon. Member for Meirionnydd Nant Conwy (Mr. Llwyd) is ...

Lord Hain | 435 c417 (Link to this contribution) Yes, it is. The hon. Gentleman would know if he ever got the chance to be in government that that ...

Lord Hain | 435 c413-4 (Link to this contribution) I do not think that the hon. Gentleman was born then. His reading of political history is as dodgy a...

Ian Lucas | 435 c414 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend is right about the introduction of free bus passes for the disabled, but does h...

Lord Hain | 435 c414 (Link to this contribution) I understand my hon. Friend’s point. It is recognised—certainly by the Welsh Assembly Government ...

Lembit Opik | 435 c416 (Link to this contribution) Is the Secretary of State still of the view, as I am, that Wales really needs an integrated intra-Wa...

Lord Hain | 435 c416 (Link to this contribution) The problem would be whether an intra-Wales service was being proposed. I do not think that it would...

Hywel Williams | 435 c416-7 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Member for Ynys Môn (Albert Owen) talked about the transfer of funds. Will the Secretary of...

Betty Williams | 435 c414 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend agree that there is a need to strengthen the provisions on the Assembly’s ...

Lord Hain | 435 c414-6 (Link to this contribution) I think that is being addressed, but the commitment to sustainable development, and the fact that th...

Albert Owen | 435 c416 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State will be aware that public service obligations are working well in places such...

Lord Hain | 435 c416 (Link to this contribution) I am not quite sure about that. It probably would be allowed, but it would have to be clear that the...

Mark Tami | 435 c412 (Link to this contribution) Very successfully.

Lord Hain | 435 c413 (Link to this contribution) That was a much better question than the hon. Gentleman asked me yesterday, so he is obviously on a ...

David TC Davies | 435 c413 (Link to this contribution) It strikes me that there is a paradox. While the Labour party takes full credit for the national hea...

Lord Hain | 435 c413 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the hon. Gentleman’s constructive advice. I shall certainly look at that model, bu...

David TC Davies | 435 c413 (Link to this contribution) Does the Secretary of State regret the Beeching cuts, which took place under the 1964 Wilson Governm...

Lord Hain | 435 c412 (Link to this contribution) I was not aware of that problem, but it is ridiculous. I hope that Virgin Trains can sort it out and...

Lembit Opik | 435 c412-3 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State is in the happy position of being able to survey at close hand an example of ...

Lord Hain | 435 c412 (Link to this contribution) Very successfully to help my hon. Friend the Member for Ynys Môn (Albert Owen) achieve his magnifice...

Betty Williams | 435 c412 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend foresee more joined-up thinking between train operating companies within W...

Lord Hain | 435 c410-1 (Link to this contribution) That is an important debate. We are talking about a programme that cannot come in for another 10 or ...

Ian Lucas | 435 c410 (Link to this contribution) I am listening with interest to my right hon. Friend’s observations on road pricing. At this early s...

Lord Hain | 435 c411 (Link to this contribution) I fully agree. The hon. Gentleman makes a valid point as the representative of a largely rural area....

Hywel Williams | 435 c411 (Link to this contribution) Does the Secretary of State agree that particular care must be taken in rural Wales, and indeed in r...

Lord Hain | 435 c411 (Link to this contribution) I realise that the hon. Gentleman has a job to do as Opposition spokesman.

Bill Wiggin | 435 c411 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State seemed to suggest that the charging regime would be based on the principle of...

Lord Hain | 435 c411-2 (Link to this contribution) No, I would not be so uncharitable as to suggest that. These are early days, and the issues all have...

Mark Tami | 435 c411 (Link to this contribution) And is doing it badly.

Lord Hain | 435 c410 (Link to this contribution) As my hon. Friend knows, rolling stock is constantly being upgraded under our Government, with recor...

Albert Owen | 435 c412 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend mentioned congestion on bridges, and there is absolute chaos, particularly at b...

Elfyn Llwyd | 435 c409 (Link to this contribution) The thrust of the Bill is welcome, but on the subject of an integrated transport policy, may I draw ...

Lord Hain | 435 c409 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time. The purpose of the Bill is to provide power...

Lord Hain | 435 c409-10 (Link to this contribution) I am happy to do that. I understand the hon. Gentleman’s concern and that of other north Wales MPs, ...

Chris Bryant | 435 c410 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State will know that one of the problems in the south Wales valleys, where many peo...

Lord Barker of Battle | 435 c465-8 (Link to this contribution) Indeed—who knows?—but the hon. Member for Montgomeryshire certainly demonstrated his wide knowledge ...

Nick Ainger | 435 c471-2 (Link to this contribution) I cannot give the hon. Gentleman a direct answer, but I will find out, and I shall certainly take th...

Nick Ainger | 435 c469-71 (Link to this contribution) I again refer the hon. Gentleman to clause 5(5). I give him the categorical assurance that if the As...

David TC Davies | 435 c471 (Link to this contribution) I accept the point about airports. However, on speed limits, on which I know that many hon. Members ...

Nick Ainger | 435 c468-9 (Link to this contribution) This has been a full and interesting debate. I welcome the hon. Member for Bexhill and Battle (Grego...

David Jones | 435 c469 (Link to this contribution) Local authority representatives will not necessarily be appointed to the JTAs. It is theoretically p...

Lord Barker of Battle | 435 c464-5 (Link to this contribution) Once again, I apologise for the early departure of the shadow Secretary of State for Wales, and add ...

Mark Tami | 435 c465 (Link to this contribution) Or the Freddie Laker.

Lembit Opik | 435 c464 (Link to this contribution) We are beginning to reach consensus. We have established that pump priming is acceptable and that in...

David Jones | 435 c464 (Link to this contribution) It would be a useful avenue to explore, and if some economic benefit could be proved, Conservative M...

Ian Lucas | 435 c464 (Link to this contribution) I have some good news for the hon. Gentleman. An improvement to the junction that he mentioned was a...

David Jones | 435 c464 (Link to this contribution) I am delighted to hear that, because it is a significant impediment to traffic between the north-wes...

David TC Davies | 435 c460 (Link to this contribution) I was not suggesting that everyone goes to Liverpool, and I am not necessarily disputing the hon. Ge...

Lembit Opik | 435 c460 (Link to this contribution) That is exactly why no one is recommending building a motorway from north to south Wales and exactly...

David TC Davies | 435 c460-2 (Link to this contribution) We are not. We are all in favour of having such a service, but we are not in favour of using Nationa...

David Jones | 435 c462-4 (Link to this contribution) I too pay tribute to the hon. Member for Blaenau Gwent (Peter Law) on his excellent maiden speech. H...

David TC Davies | 435 c457-9 (Link to this contribution) I confess to having something of a sense of déjà vu today, first because many of the issues that we ...

David TC Davies | 435 c432 (Link to this contribution) Is the hon. Gentleman suggesting that the days of British Rail were some kind of golden age for the ...

Albert Owen | 435 c417-8 (Link to this contribution) This is an important point. I understand how the funding works and the money will be new. The public...

Nick Ainger | 435 c453 (Link to this contribution) The matter has been taken up and we are assured that the measure is purely temporary. It is in place...

Lord Hain | 435 c412 (Link to this contribution) I will be very happy to receive a delegation from my hon. Friend. Having visited his constituency be...

Albert Owen | 435 c427-8 (Link to this contribution) I am pleased that the Bill has come back to the House. It has been a good week for Welsh legislation...

Chris Bryant | 435 c420 (Link to this contribution) Why?

Lord Hain | 435 c418 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes the point well. I was simply trying to make it clear that if a flight originate...