UK Parliament / Open data

Northern Ireland Troubles (Legacy and Reconciliation) Bill

Debate on bills on Wednesday, 21 June 2023, in the House of Lords, led by Lord Caine. The answering member was Lord Murphy of Torfaen.
Lords report stage first day. Amendments 1 to 8, 11, 14 to 17, 19, 22 to 25 and 30 agreed to.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

831 cc255-318 

Session

2022-23

Legislative stage

Report stage

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber

Proceeding contributions

Lord Caine | 831 cc255-6 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Caine

1: Clause 2, page 3, line 11, leave out “one, two or three” and i...

Lord Caine | 831 cc256-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, before I begin, I will take a moment to mark, on the longest day of the year, the annua...


Show all contributions (90)
Lord Murphy of Torfaen | 831 c257 (Link to this contribution)

I associate myself with the Minister in remembering those who suffered violence over the last num...

Baroness Suttie | 831 c257 (Link to this contribution)

I echo a lot of the comments that the noble Lord, Lord Murphy, has just made, and the Minister’s ...

Lord Caine | 831 c257 (Link to this contribution)

I am very grateful to the noble Lord and noble Baroness for their support and kind words, and I h...

Lord Caine | 831 c258 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Caine

2: Clause 2, page 3, line 11, at end insert—

“(3A) The prin...

Lord Caine | 831 cc258-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, at Second Reading I committed to carrying out extensive engagement, which has just been...

Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick | 831 c259 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his explanation of the amendments in this group about making t...

Lord Weir of Ballyholme | 831 cc259-260 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, first, my colleagues and I associate ourselves with the earlier remarks noting and inde...

Baroness O'Loan | 831 cc260-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, today, the Day of Reflection, was proposed many years ago by Healing Through Rememberin...

Lord Morrow | 831 c261 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the Minister was at pains to point out that Amendment 2 is all about reconciliation, ye...

Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown | 831 c261 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I know my noble friend Lord Weir touched on this, but Amendment 3 requires the ICRIR to...

Baroness Suttie | 831 c261 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I place on record my thanks to the Minister for introducing Amendments 85 and 86, which...

Lord Murphy of Torfaen | 831 c262 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I agree with every word spoken by every Member of this House who has taken part in this...

Lord Caine | 831 cc262-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, again, I am very grateful to those who have participated in the admirably short debate ...

Lord Caine | 831 c263 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Caine

3: Clause 2, page 3, line 26, at end insert—

“(4A) In exerc...

Lord Caine | 831 c263 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Caine

4: Clause 2, page 3, line 26, at end insert—

“(4A) At least...

Lord Caine | 831 cc264-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will again try to be mercifully brief given that, with one technical exception, I hav...

Baroness O'Loan | 831 c265 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, most of the amendments in this group are unexceptional. I have tabled Amendments 21 and...

Lord Murphy of Torfaen | 831 c266 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, there are a lot of technical amendments to this and obviously we support those, as we s...

Lord Bew | 831 c266 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I wish to return to something I focused on in Committee: the role of the ICRIR and its ...

Baroness O'Loan | 831 c266 (Link to this contribution)

Before the noble Lord sits down, I have a question. He talks about the tiny proportion of the cas...

Lord Bew | 831 c266 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the noble Baroness for the intervention. I did not express it quite correctly; I...

Lord Caine | 831 cc266-7 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to noble Lords for their contributions. I turn first to Amendment 10 to Clause 4, i...

Lord Caine | 831 cc267-8 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Caine

5: Clause 2, page 3, leave out line 27 and insert—

“(5) No ...

Lord Eames | 831 c268 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Eames

9: After Clause 2, insert the following new Clause—

“ICRIR:...

Lord Eames | 831 cc268-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I rise to address Amendment 9, recognising the consequential relationship of Amendments...

Baroness Hoey | 831 cc269-270 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, as a signatory to Amendment 9 in the name of the noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Ea...

Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 831 cc270-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, first, I join with other noble Lords who have thanked the Minister for his engagement i...

Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick | 831 cc272-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we are now on one of the main debates in this Bill: the issue of amnesty and immunity. ...

Baroness O'Loan | 831 cc275-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I must apologise to the House. I omitted to declare my interest as a member of the Oper...

Lord Blair of Boughton | 831 c277 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will not detain the House much on this issue and Amendment 63, to which my name is at...

Lord Morrow | 831 cc277-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will speak to Amendment 61A, tabled by me and my noble friends Lord Dodds and Lord We...

Lord Browne of Ladyton | 831 cc278-280 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will speak to Amendments 71, 72, 73 and 74 in my name, which are amendments to Amendm...

Viscount Brookeborough | 831 cc280-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have listened to everything. I have not bothered to intervene because I basically agr...

Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown | 831 cc281-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, Amendment 61A stands in the name of my noble friends Lord Dodds, Lord Weir and Lord Mor...

Baroness Suttie | 831 c282 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the sheer number and scope of amendments in this group should serve as a clear indicati...

Lord Murphy of Torfaen | 831 cc282-4 (Link to this contribution)

This was bound to be a powerful and very emotional debate about an issue which goes, as many nobl...

Lord Caine | 831 c284 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this has been a very thorough debate, as indeed it was in Committee. At the outset, I a...

Lord Murphy of Torfaen | 831 c284 (Link to this contribution)

I rarely do this in the House of Lords, but I think that is worth an answer. It would have been b...

Lord Caine | 831 cc284-5 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord will be aware from his own experience that the search for any consensus around thi...

Baroness O'Loan | 831 c285 (Link to this contribution)

Could the Minister explain to us how they are compatible?

Lord Caine | 831 c285 (Link to this contribution)

I explained that at length in Committee. They allow for investigations to an Article 2-compliant ...

Baroness O'Loan | 831 c285 (Link to this contribution)

Possibly my question was not properly phrased. Could the Minister explain how an immunity provisi...

Lord Caine | 831 cc285-9 (Link to this contribution)

There are circumstances where setting aside the prospect of a prosecution, if it is for the great...

Viscount Brookeborough | 831 c288 (Link to this contribution)

I have just a quick point. When we talk about the individual giving all the relevant and truthful...

Lord Caine | 831 cc288-291 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the noble Viscount, Lord Brookeborough, for his intervention. Much of what he sa...

Baroness O'Loan | 831 c290 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I would like to query what the Minister said about Amendments 94 and 97 and about me. I...

Lord Caine | 831 c290 (Link to this contribution)

Forgive me, I am having difficulty hearing the noble Baroness.

Baroness O'Loan | 831 c290 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I said that the Minister made some allusion to me in the context of Amendments 94 and 9...

Lord Caine | 831 c290 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the noble Baroness. I do not think I was in any way ascribing those opinions to ...

Lord Eames | 831 c290 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I appreciate once more the manner in which the Minister has dealt with my amendments. I...

Lord Bew | 831 c290 (Link to this contribution)

Tabled by

Lord Bew

10: Clause 4, page 4, line 26, at end insert—

“(d) would cre...

Lord Bew | 831 c290 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I rise to address the subject of the fairness of the working of the commission in futur...

Lord Caine | 831 c290 (Link to this contribution)

Just to clarify: does the noble Lord wish to speak to Amendment 12, which we have not yet reached...

Lord Bew | 831 c292 (Link to this contribution)

Yes, I wish to speak to Amendment 12.

Lord Caine | 831 c292 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Caine

11: Clause 4, page 4, line 29, at end insert—

“(2A) Subsect...

Lord Bew | 831 c292 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Bew

12: Clause 4, page 4, line 31, at end insert—

“(4) Before car...

Lord Bew | 831 c292 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I apologise for being, as they say in Northern Ireland, a little bit previous. I want t...

Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick | 831 cc292-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, with permission, and in the unavoidable absence of my noble friend Lord Hain, I will sp...

Baroness O'Loan | 831 cc294-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will speak to my Amendment 13, which is also in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady ...

Baroness Hoey | 831 cc296-300 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, with regard to Amendment 28 in the name of myself, the noble Lords, Lord Bew and Lord G...

Lord Blair of Boughton | 831 c300 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is unusual for me to start by saying that I could not disagree more with what I have...

Lord Blair of Boughton | 831 c300 (Link to this contribution)

I shall stop there on that point.

I support Amendment 31 in the name of the noble Lord, Lor...

Baroness Suttie | 831 c301 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this has been an interesting short debate. These Benches fully support Amendment 31, ta...

Lord Murphy of Torfaen | 831 c301 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I very much appreciate the amendments put forward by the Government in this group, whic...

Lord Caine | 831 cc301-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful to all those who have spoken. We have debated compatibility with the Euro...

Baroness O'Loan | 831 c303 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister for giving way. Does he accept that, in the examples he gave of the time wit...

Lord Caine | 831 c303 (Link to this contribution)

If I am honest, I am not entirely sure I follow the point the noble Baroness is making, but I sta...

Lord Bew | 831 c303 (Link to this contribution)

I beg leave to withdraw Amendment 12.

Lord Caine | 831 c304 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Caine

14: Clause 5, page 5, line 21, leave out from “require” to “to” i...

Lord Caine | 831 c304 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Caine

16: Clause 7, page 6, line 15, at end insert—

“(3A) Subsect...

Lord Caine | 831 cc304-5 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Caine

19: Clause 8, page 7, line 37, after “section” insert “—

“c...

Lord Caine | 831 cc305-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, as has been said many times, the Government’s primary focus has been to establish one e...

Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick | 831 cc306-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I believe that the Bill and the government amendments to this clause to do with inquest...

Baroness O'Loan | 831 cc307-311 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, group 6 refers to criminal justice outcomes. These really are the critical clauses. The...

Lord Browne of Ladyton | 831 cc311-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I stand to speak to Amendments 100, 103, 104 and 148 in my name, which are in this grou...

Baroness Hoey | 831 cc312-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support the Government’s intention to set a deadline on the issue of inquests. I oppo...

Baroness Suttie | 831 c314 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I shall speak in favour of Amendment 110, to which I have added my name. It would remov...

Lord Murphy of Torfaen | 831 cc314-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, after immunity, this part of the Bill is the most disliked, criticised and disapproved ...

Lord Caine | 831 c315 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am tempted to write at some point the definitive account of the Stormont House agreem...

Baroness O'Loan | 831 c316 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord is very generous. I want to ask him if legal aid is available to everyone for inqu...

Lord Caine | 831 c316 (Link to this contribution)

It is assessed in the normal way, which the noble Baroness will know, in Northern Ireland. Inques...

Lord Browne of Ladyton | 831 c316 (Link to this contribution)

I apologise for intervening on the Minister, but he did provoke me. My amendments relate to civil...

Lord Caine | 831 cc316-7 (Link to this contribution)

Well, maybe I was very mistaken in trying to answer some of the questions put to me. I was merely...

Baroness O'Loan | 831 c317 (Link to this contribution)

Can the Minister enlighten us as to what remedy the Bill will provide to those who seek, in the c...

Lord Caine | 831 c317 (Link to this contribution)

As I said and as the noble Baroness will be aware, 700 cases are currently stuck in the Northern ...

Lord Caine | 831 cc317-8 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Caine

22: Clause 9, page 8, line 17, leave out sub-paragraph (i)

...

Lord Caine | 831 c318 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Caine

30: Clause 13, page 11, line 1, at end insert—

“(A1) The Co...

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