My Lords, first, I join with other noble Lords who have thanked the Minister for his engagement in relation to both the amendments he has tabled on Report and the amendments we considered in Committee and have brought forward again on Report. I think it has been a genuine engagement. I am pleased that the Minister has listened to some extent and that there have been improvements as a result of the discussions that have taken place, and indeed following amendments tabled in the other place which the Government responded to.
In paying tribute to the Minister, we should also pay tribute, as others have, to the innocent victims of terrorism, murder and mayhem in Northern Ireland over many years. We should pay tribute to their enormous tenacity and fortitude in the face of what has been happening in recent days in Northern Ireland, with the continuing eulogy and glorification of murderers and criminals by elected representatives, including those who purport to be the First Minister “for all”.
In relation to the Bill being brought back, given the pause and the length of time that has passed, and the universal opposition to it, some had hoped that this would be one area where the Government might actually listen to all the parties in Northern Ireland, but that does not appear to be the case. The Minister and your
Lordships will be aware that on 19 June, the leader of the Democratic Unionist Party, Sir Jeffrey Donaldson, and others wrote to the Prime Minister asking, even at this stage, for the proposals to be withdrawn. The letter restated our fundamental opposition to an amnesty—which is what the Bill in effect creates—paid tribute to the victims and recognised that while we and other noble Lords have tabled amendments, that should not be misconstrued in any shape or form as providing tacit consent to this regime, which undermines confidence in the rule of law and has done so much harm to victims.
I will speak to the amendments in my name and those of my noble friends, but I say initially that I have a lot of sympathy with Amendment 9, moved by the noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Eames, on putting the victims at the centre of this immunity process if we are to have it. It talks about those cases that involve death; I would prefer it to cover all cases. Having said that, I think it is worthy of support, and I hope the Government will consider it.
The noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Eames, talked about hypocrisy in relation to mentioning reconciliation, yet we have the Bill before us. That was a very powerful but correct description, and I often hear that word mentioned by victims in relation to the approach taken in the Bill by the Government.
Amendment 59A, standing in my name and in the names of my noble friends, would require the commissioner for investigations to refer a file to the PPS when an individual is found to have provided false statements to the ICRIR. At present there is no explicit provision in the Bill to require the ICRIR to provide material evidence of false statements to the prosecutor in aid of proceedings. I would be grateful if, when the Minister responds, he can address that point and reassure your Lordships that this is not some kind of loophole that can be exploited but that, in the absence of this amendment, there will be no gap and that we will ensure that there is a joined-up approach to pursuing convictions.
Amendment 61A would require an individual to be disengaged from activity which would be reasonably regarded as precluding reconciliation in order to be eligible for immunity from prosecution, Although the concept of immunity is in our view irredeemable, a further problem is that the Bill as drafted places no impediment to a perpetrator gaining the protection of immunity and then going on to publicise, promote or commemorate—the favourite word now used by terrorist apologists—his or her deeds in such a way that harms victims and generally offends the cause of peace and reconciliation. The Government have brought forward new proposals allowing immunity to be revoked in instances of glorification of terror, and I welcome that. However, I think it could go further in capturing activities that do not necessarily constitute offending but which will cause deep harm to victims, survivors and their families. Our Amendment 86A follows on by requiring the permanent revocation of immunity of individuals engaged in the sort of activity that I have outlined.
It should not be acceptable in general terms that political representatives of the IRA and Sinn Féin, including the potential First Minister or anyone else, and especially people who have taken advantage of this system, should go around the country, not doing enough to fall foul of the “glorification of terrorism” legislation but doing enormous harm psychologically to victims and their families by their continuing commemoration, eulogising and glorification of the perpetrators of some of the most heinous criminal and obscene acts that we have seen anywhere over the last 30 years. The purpose of these amendments is to address that point and to urge that the Government do something about it. It is not only causing trauma to victims and retraumatising their families but is toxifying the political atmosphere in Northern Ireland as people try to get the Assembly up and running again.
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Amendment 61C is designed to prevent the grant of immunity to any person subject to active proceedings who has moved abroad to escape prosecution. We discussed this in Committee and we have discussed it with the Minister in detail, and I understand the position. However, the way the Bill is currently worded, this could have the effect of encouraging offenders to return to Northern Ireland to live out their final days there in close proximity to those they terrorised, having taken advantage of fleeing the jurisdiction for many years. We think that that will cause further problems for victims.
Amendment 89A is an amendment to the Government’s Amendment 89. It is intended to probe the omission of offences under Section 13 of the Terrorism Act 2000 from the proposed new clause on “Subsequent convictions: revocation of immunity” in the amendment in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Caine. The Government’s proposed new clause on revocation of immunity for subsequent convictions is based on Schedule 1A of the Counter-Terrorism Act 2008, which helpfully covers offences in Section 1 of the Terrorism Act 2006—which was the focus of our proposed offence in Committee—and Sections 11 and 12 of the Terrorism Act 2000. Although this is a step forward, the Government’s proposal does not cover Section 13 of the 2000 Act, which prohibits the wearing or display of items of clothing which explicitly or implicitly arouse the suspicion of support or membership of a proscribed organisation.
In recent days and over the last number of years we have seen these kinds of displays happening on the streets of Northern Ireland. Therefore, this could allow a loophole for perpetrators who have gained immunity to go about at these kinds of events without facing any prospect of criminal enforcement. There needs to be a recourse to revocation of immunity for the full range of activities that constitute glorification of terrorism. It is wrong that, having adopted the rest of it, the Government have omitted the part that talks about the display and wearing of paramilitary garb, and so on. That happens very frequently. Indeed, there was an example the other day of a convicted murderer who was released from prison early on medical grounds because he had only a short time to live. Many years later, that terrorist carried the coffin of one of his IRA volunteers through the streets of Belfast. So I have to
say that these are real, practical problems and this causes immense damage and hurt to victims. Indeed, right across the spectrum of people in Northern Ireland, people are appalled at this kind of behaviour, yet it is allowed to happen.
Indeed, it happens with the encouragement, again, of leading politicians who claim that they want to be First Minister for all. How can you be a First Minister for all when you are out eulogising and praising murder and criminal activity? Imagine if the Prime Minister of any civilised country anywhere in the world was running around, being present at and organising eulogies and commemorations of criminals and murderers. It really does not bear thinking about, but that is the reality of what we face.
In conclusion, Amendment 93A would allow the offences for which immunity has been granted to be taken into account in sentencing for post-Troubles offences. The public rightly expect that sentencing should take into account whether an offence is a first offence and, if it is not, the severity of any sentence or penalty should reflect that. We believe that if somebody is convicted of a future offence and they have received immunity, whatever the crime was that they got immunity from being prosecuted for should be taken into account. The way the Bill currently stands, that would not be the case.
Finally, we regard Amendment 98A as very important, as it would treat a public prosecution as having begun when the file is passed to the PPS in Northern Ireland. The Kenova case has been mentioned. That is an example of an enormous amount of work that has gone into the pursuit and investigation of very serious issues in Northern Ireland. The files have been passed to the PPS and there they have sat for an inordinately long time—I cannot remember precisely how long off the top of my head, but it is a number of years. There is still no sign of that case emerging from that office, yet under the proposals in the Bill, as of 1 May next year, that would come to a complete halt, with no prospect of any criminal prosecution. That work should not be nugatory or conclude in that fashion. We believe it is important that this amendment is taken on board so at least that case and others where the file has been passed should continue. That would obviously be welcomed by those involved in that investigation but also by the families of the victims and many across the board of Northern Ireland.
I hope the Minister will take on board some of the amendments we have tabled. I look forward to his response.