UK Parliament / Open data

Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill

Lords report stage fifth day. Amendment 104E agreed to on division (206 to 176). Amendment 104F agreed to. Amendment 104FE agreed to on division (157 to 145). Amendments 107A and 107B agreed to. Amendment 109A agreed to on division (32 to 20).

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

817 cc1088-1188 

Session

2021-22

Department

Ministry of Justice

Legislative stage

Report stage

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber

Show all related items (8)

Proceeding contributions

Baroness Meacher | 817 cc1088-9 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Meacher

103: After Clause 172, insert the following new Clause—

...
Baroness Meacher | 817 cc1089-1090 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, Amendment 103 seeks to ensure that the regular action plans on restorative justice prov...


Show all contributions (154)
Lord Cormack | 817 c1090 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I made a very brief reference to restorative justice in one of our debates on Monday. I...

Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 817 cc1090-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I intervene to express my support for this modest but worthwhile amendment and, like my...

Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 817 cc1091-2 (Link to this contribution)

Well, shall we change them both? I think changing the batting is a fair comment.

My noble f...

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb | 817 c1092 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow the noble Lords, Lord Cormack and Lord Hodgson, and to agree...

Lord Ramsbotham | 817 c1092 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I rise to strongly support this amendment, which was so ably introduced by my noble fri...

Lord Sentamu | 817 cc1092-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I too support this amendment. It asks the Secretary of State to prepare an action plan ...

Lord Laming | 817 cc1093-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, perhaps I may make three quick points in support of this important amendment. First, we...

Lord Paddick | 817 c1094 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I remind the House that at one stage in my police career I was the lead for the Metropo...

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede | 817 cc1094-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I, too, support the amendment. It is modest and worth while, and is another step down t...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 817 cc1095-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am pleased that the noble Baroness, Lady Meacher, is able to be with us this afternoo...

Lord Paddick | 817 c1097 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the Minister seemed to suggest that, in any form of restorative justice, a victim might...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 817 c1097 (Link to this contribution)

I was saying absolutely the opposite and, if it came out wrong, it came out wrong. The whole poin...

Baroness Meacher | 817 c1097 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank the Minister for the warm and encouraging words that we were asking for. Unfort...

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 817 c1097 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames

104: After Clause 172, insert the following n...

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 817 cc1098-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this amendment seeks the establishment of a royal commission to carry out a full review...

Lord Thomas of Cwmgiedd | 817 c1099 (Link to this contribution)

I will speak briefly in support of this amendment. There are five reasons for my support.

F...

Lord Beith | 817 c1100 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I agree with all the arguments my noble friend brought forward for having an overall lo...

Bishop of Gloucester | 817 c1100 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I fully support the amendment. Sometimes I feel a bit as if I am in “Groundhog Day” as ...

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb | 817 cc1100-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I also support the amendment. The noble Lord, Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames, has given...

Lord Brown of Eaton-under-Heywood | 817 c1101 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I too support this proposal. The objectives set out in each of the paragraphs (a) to (h...

Lord Macdonald of River Glaven | 817 cc1101-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I do not regard the United Kingdom’s place at the top of the incarceration league table...

Lord Bach | 817 c1102 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, may I ask the Minister a question? A few years ago, when I was a police and crime commi...

Baroness Fox of Buckley | 817 cc1102-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have thought long and hard about this amendment, and I am still torn about it. The ot...

Baroness Fox of Buckley | 817 c1103 (Link to this contribution)

I know that some may be shocked. I actually worry a lot about prison reform, authoritarian tenden...

Lord Cormack | 817 cc1103-4 (Link to this contribution)

Well, my Lords, I had never really thought of the noble Baroness as a bleeding-heart liberal, but...

Lord Faulks | 817 c1104 (Link to this contribution)

Before we hear from the Minister and the noble Lord for the Opposition, I shall simply add that o...

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede | 817 cc1104-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we support this amendment and every element of what the noble Lord, Lord Marks, said wh...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 817 cc1105-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this amendment, tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames, would require...

Lord Davies of Stamford | 817 c1107 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have listened to the debate this afternoon with great pleasure, and I must say with g...

Baroness Scott of Bybrook | 817 c1107 (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry, but the Minister had already sat down. We can only take a question if it is very shor...

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 817 c1107 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in those circumstances I think that it is for me to respond. I do not know whether the ...

Lord Faulks | 817 c1107 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I believe this is in order, because I did not suggest for a moment that it was for the ...

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 817 cc1107-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, at the end of this interesting debate, I say first that I am very grateful to all who h...

Lord Rosser | 817 c1109 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Rosser

104A: After Clause 172, insert the following new Clause—

“...

Lord Rosser | 817 cc1109-1110 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, a similar amendment was debated in Committee as part of a series of amendments relating...

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb | 817 c1110 (Link to this contribution)

I would be remiss if I did not point out to the Benches opposite that this is an issue that I hav...

Bishop of Gloucester | 817 cc1110-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I speak in place of my right reverend friend the Bishop of Derby, who sadly cannot be h...

Lord Paddick | 817 c1111 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in Committee I recalled my own experience of visiting the only young offender instituti...

Lord Sharpe of Epsom | 817 cc1111-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, for setting out the case for the amendmen...

Lord Rosser | 817 cc1113-4 (Link to this contribution)

First, I thank the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Derby and the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, f...

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede | 817 c1114 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede

104B: After Clause 172, insert the following new ...

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede | 817 cc1114-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the proposed new clause in Amendment 104B would bring Section 28 of the Youth Justice a...

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb | 817 c1116 (Link to this contribution)

I reassure noble Lords that I will not be speaking on every amendment today, but I regret that al...

Lord Paddick | 817 c1116 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, my noble friend Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames is leading for us on this group, but I w...

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 817 cc1116-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we support all the amendments in this group. First, I will consider Amendment 104B. As ...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 817 cc1118-1120 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I recognise that behind all these amendments is a dedication to improving the way in wh...

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede | 817 c1120 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his assurances, and I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Baroness Chapman of Darlington | 817 cc1120-1 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Chapman of Darlington

104D: After Clause 172, insert the following ...

Baroness Chapman of Darlington | 817 c1121 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I rise to move the amendment tabled by my noble friend Lord Ponsonby on life-saving equ...

Earl Attlee | 817 c1121 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I rise briefly to support the noble Baroness in moving her amendment. This might not be...

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb | 817 c1122 (Link to this contribution)

I promise that this is the last time that I will speak—this evening; there will be other times. I...

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 817 cc1122-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the effect of Amendment 104D would be to increase the maximum sentence for criminal dam...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 817 cc1123-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this amendment was debated just a few weeks ago when the Government set out why we beli...

Baroness Chapman of Darlington | 817 c1124 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the Minister for what he had to say and I do understand that creating a new offe...

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede | 817 c1124 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede

104E: After Clause 172, insert the following new ...

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede | 817 cc1124-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this group of amendments seeks to introduce new offences to make it illegal to have sex...

Earl Attlee | 817 cc1125-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede, for tabling Amendments 104...

Lord Pannick | 817 c1127 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I do not share the concerns that have just been expressed. It seems to me that Amendmen...

Lord Hope of Craighead | 817 c1127 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have one point to add to what has been said by my noble friend Lord Pannick. The word...

Baroness Kennedy of Cradley | 817 cc1127-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I speak briefly in support of Amendments 104E and 104F, in the name of my noble friend ...

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 817 c1128 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I shall be brief because we have a lot to get through. I should have preferred Amendmen...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 817 cc1128-1130 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, as the noble Lord, Lord Ponsonby, explained, these amendments relate to three matters w...

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede | 817 c1131 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have taken part in this debate. It has been quite quick but...

Earl Attlee | 817 c1131 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have no issue with what the noble Lord said, nor with what the noble Baroness said. T...

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede | 817 c1131 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I move on to the comments of the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, and the noble and learned Lo...

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede | 817 c1131 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede

104F: After Clause 172, insert the following new ...

Lord Bach | 817 cc1131-5 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Bach

104FA: After Clause 172, insert the following new Clause—

“P...

Lord Bach | 817 cc1135-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, Amendment 104FA stands in my name of those of the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, and my nobl...

Lord Pannick | 817 c1136 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I respectfully agree with everything the noble Lord, Lord Bach, said. I will add just o...

Lord Brown of Eaton-under-Heywood | 817 c1137 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I too support this amendment; I did at Second Reading. Indeed, I have added my name to ...

Earl Attlee | 817 c1137 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have worked with the noble Lord, Lord Bach, for many years in this House —sadly, on o...

Baroness Fox of Buckley | 817 c1137 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I cannot say that I know many teenagers who, growing up, aspire to be police crime and ...

Lord Sentamu | 817 cc1137-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, since I have been gratuitously referred to, I ought to say some words. Archbishop Rober...

Baroness Jolly | 817 c1138 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, as we said in Committee, we are in principle supportive of this amendment. However, we ...

Lord Rosser | 817 cc1138-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will be brief. I recall that the Minister said in Committee on this amendment

“...

Lord Sharpe of Epsom | 817 cc1139-1140 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, first, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Bach, for giving us a further opportunity to discus...

Lord Pannick | 817 c1140 (Link to this contribution)

Before the noble Lord sits down, may I ask him this question? Why is it that public confidence re...

Lord Sharpe of Epsom | 817 c1140 (Link to this contribution)

With regard to public confidence, I go back to what I said earlier: this was originally designed ...

Lord Rosser | 817 c1140 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, before the noble Lord sits down, may I have a response to my question? Bearing in mind ...

Lord Sharpe of Epsom | 817 c1140 (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry I forgot to answer the noble Lord’s specific question. The problem is that I do not ha...

Earl Attlee | 817 c1140 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord told the House that we agreed on a cross-party basis that these arrangements were ...

Lord Sharpe of Epsom | 817 c1140 (Link to this contribution)

I am afraid I do not know. It predates me, sorry.

Lord Lexden | 817 c1140 (Link to this contribution)

Is it the Government’s view that, by retaining the ban—as it is at the moment—for PCCs, there wou...

Lord Sharpe of Epsom | 817 c1140 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord will forgive me for not venturing an opinion on that.

Lord Bach | 817 c1141 (Link to this contribution)

I forgive the Minister anything. I was in his position many years ago when I had to defend the co...

Baroness Kennedy of Cradley | 817 c1141 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Kennedy of Cradley

104FC: After Clause 172, insert the following ne...

Baroness Kennedy of Cradley | 817 cc1141-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, men who seduced girls between the ages of 13 and 16 before 1 May 2004 are effectively i...

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede | 817 c1143 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support my noble friend, who is quite right in everything she has said. Sexual abuse ...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 817 cc1143-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, before I turn to this amendment, I begin with an apology. I made an incorrect statement...

Baroness Kennedy of Cradley | 817 c1145 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for his response and for the large amount of time last we...

Baroness Coussins | 817 cc1145-6 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Coussins

104FD: After Clause 172, insert the following new Clause—<...

Baroness Coussins | 817 cc1146-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I remind the House of my interests as vice-president of the Chartered Institute of Ling...

Lord Pannick | 817 c1148 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I pay tribute to the noble Baroness, Lady Coussins, for pursuing this important matter,...

Lord Hope of Craighead | 817 c1148 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I too pay tribute to my noble friend Lady Coussins for the determination with which she...

Lord Hogan-Howe | 817 cc1148-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support the noble Baroness, Lady Coussins, as I have from the beginning, as a layman ...

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 817 c1149 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I spoke at length on this amendment in Committee and attended the meeting with the nobl...

Lord Berkeley of Knighton | 817 cc1149-1150 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I too spoke in Committee, and I have been copied in on the very helpful response from t...

Baroness Chapman of Darlington | 817 c1150 (Link to this contribution)

Clearly, we agree with everything that has been said. Rather than repeat it all, I will just comp...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 817 cc1150-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, having begun my response to the previous group with an apology for getting a date wrong...

Baroness Coussins | 817 c1152 (Link to this contribution)

I thank all noble Lords who have contributed to this debate. I especially offer my thanks to the ...

Lord Coaker | 817 cc1152-3 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Coaker

104FE: After Clause 172, insert the following new Clause—

...

Lord Coaker | 817 cc1153-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I start this debate by deploring—I hope the Minister will pass this on—the anti-vaxxers...

Baroness Fox of Buckley | 817 cc1154-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, as has already been noted, I raised concerns about an earlier version of this amendment...

Lord Walney | 817 cc1156-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, surprisingly, my remarks will overlap substantially with the noble Baroness’s speech, a...

Lord Paddick | 817 c1157 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the noble Baroness, Lady Fox of Buckley, talked about demonising protest—I bet she is l...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 817 cc1157-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I start by joining the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, in deploring the anti-vaxxers who stood...

Lord Coaker | 817 c1158 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank the Minister for her reply and for the courteous way in which she always tries ...

Baroness Fox of Buckley | 817 c1159 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I was reading my speech, but I acknowledge that the noble Lord said that in his opening...

Lord Coaker | 817 c1159 (Link to this contribution)

That is a different point. I accept some of that. It was not what the Minister was saying, but I ...

Lord Blencathra | 817 c1159 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Blencathra

104G: Clause 44, page 38, line 43, at end insert—

“(4)...

Lord Blencathra | 817 cc1159-1164 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this amendment is in my name and those of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge, and m...

Lord Judge | 817 c1164 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I put my name to this amendment because it raises some important and delicate issues. I...

Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 817 cc1164-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support my noble friend Lord Blencathra. He and I have been chasing down issues with ...

Lord Paddick | 817 c1165 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, as the noble Lord, Lord Blencathra, said, in December 2011 the then Home Secretary anno...

Lord Coaker | 817 cc1165-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have listened carefully to this short debate and the points made by the noble Lords, ...

Lord Sharpe of Epsom | 817 cc1166-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank my noble friend Lord Blencathra for explaining the amendment, which in substanc...

Lord Blencathra | 817 cc1167-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I think that my noble friend has inadvertently answered the question of when it will be...

Lord Beith | 817 c1168 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Beith

106: Clause 46, page 39, line 17, after “sport” insert “, dance, ...

Lord Beith | 817 cc1168-1170 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in moving this amendment, I seek to bring music, drama and dance within provisions that...

Lord Paddick | 817 c1170 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, as my noble friend Lord Beith explained, the amendment would extend the position of tru...

Lord Pannick | 817 cc1170-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the noble Lords, Lord Beith and Lord Paddick, make a very strong case. Clause 46 addres...

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede | 817 c1171 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, for giving those very good and relevant examples ...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 817 cc1171-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am very grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Beith, for again raising this matter for deb...

Lord Beith | 817 c1172 (Link to this contribution)

To clarify, is the noble Lord saying that when the department looked into this matter it discover...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 817 cc1172-4 (Link to this contribution)

As I say, we discussed this with a wide range of people, and it seemed to us from looking at all ...

Lord Paddick | 817 c1173 (Link to this contribution)

Before the Minister sits down, can he clarify two points? First, is he saying that those people w...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 817 c1173 (Link to this contribution)

I am struggling with that second point, but let me try to answer the first. On whether I am sayin...

Lord Beith | 817 cc1173-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, one thing I want to say in response to the Minister is that, as I said earlier, there a...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 817 cc1175-6 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar

107A: After Clause 46, insert the following new Cla...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 817 cc1176-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in moving government Amendment 107A, I first thank sincerely all those in both Houses w...

Lord Pannick | 817 c1177 (Link to this contribution)

As the Minister said, the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, is unable to be in her place tonight. She ...

Lord Blencathra | 817 c1177 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I intervene to ask my noble friend a question. I listened carefully to what he said and...

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 817 c1178 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we welcome the Government’s decision to accept the force of the amendment pursued by th...

Baroness Chapman of Darlington | 817 c1178 (Link to this contribution)

We wholeheartedly welcome this, and we welcome how the Minister can laugh at himself and bring go...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 817 cc1178-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am very grateful for the warm words from across the House and for the support this am...

Baroness Chapman of Darlington | 817 c1179 (Link to this contribution)

I appreciate that and understand what the Minister is saying. Is he saying that, if it could be r...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 817 cc1179-1180 (Link to this contribution)

The question which has to be asked is: was this done for the purpose of humiliating the woman bre...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 817 c1180 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar

107B: After Clause 46, insert the following new Cla...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 817 c1181 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this government amendment meets a commitment to bring forward proposals on Report to ad...

Lord Russell of Liverpool | 817 cc1181-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank the Minister for what he has just said and for the actions he has taken. I than...

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 817 cc1182-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we add our thanks to the Minister to those of the noble Lord, Lord Russell of Liverpool...

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede | 817 c1183 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I was sitting in the City of Westminster magistrates’ court yesterday with our Bench ch...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 817 c1183 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am very grateful for the support that the amendment has received across the House. Th...

Lord Rooker | 817 c1183 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Rooker

109A: After Clause 50, insert the following new Clause—

“A...

Lord Rooker | 817 cc1184-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I beg to move Amendment 109A, which proposes a new clause. I freely admit that the cont...

Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville | 817 c1186 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am delighted to be able to support this amendment from the noble Lord, Lord Rooker, w...

Lord Paddick | 817 c1186 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, as other noble Lords have just said, serious and organised food crime can have very ser...

Lord Rosser | 817 cc1186-7 (Link to this contribution)

As has been said, this amendment raises the issue of food-related crime and the powers and resour...

Lord Sharpe of Epsom | 817 cc1187-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Rooker, for raising this important matter. I ackn...

Lord Rooker | 817 c1188 (Link to this contribution)

I remind the House that I said that the Food Standards Agency, and therefore the unit, can use th...

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