UK Parliament / Open data

European Union Bill

Debate on bills on Monday, 13 June 2011, in the House of Lords.
European Union Bill. Lords report stage second day.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

728 c551-612, 621-50 

Session

2010-12

Department

Foreign and Commonwealth Office

Legislative stage

Report stage

Procedure

Government defeats
New clauses

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber

Related items

European Union Bill. Brought from the Commons. Explanatory Notes HL Bill 55-EN also published.
Wednesday, 9 March 2011
Bills
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Lord Triesman | 728 c649-50 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have taken part in the debate, particularly the noble Baroness...
Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 728 c609 (Link to this contribution) That, of course, is partly why, in all three British applications to join the European Economic Comm...

Show all contributions (150)
Lord Kerr of Kinlochard | 728 c609 (Link to this contribution) I always listen very carefully to what my former bosses say and I take very seriously the advice of ...
Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 728 c608 (Link to this contribution) I am very happy to give an assurance that the Government will look at this further, but we have cons...
Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 728 c606-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, no Parliament can bind its successors. That is one of the principles of parliamentary sove...
Lord Lawson of Blaby | 728 c608 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend mentioned the lawyers early on and I am quite sure that the lawyers worked this out....
Baroness Fookes | 728 c612 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have to announce a correction in the voting figures in Division No. 1. The correct figur...
Lord Davies of Stamford | 728 c621 (Link to this contribution) 22A: Schedule 1, page 14, leave out lines 32 and 33
Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 728 c609 (Link to this contribution) I was using the language of the consolidated treaty. The noble Lord was using the language of the Ma...
Lord Kerr of Kinlochard | 728 c609 (Link to this contribution) I was using the language of our Act, the Act in force in this country now. I am talking the 1993 Act...
Lord Howe of Aberavon | 728 c602 (Link to this contribution) Not at this point, in the middle of a sentence, although I have often given way to my noble friend i...
Lord Lawson of Blaby | 728 c602-3 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that the whole House is fascinated by my noble friend’s trip down memory lane. I share a n...
Lord Howe of Aberavon | 728 c603 (Link to this contribution) With great respect to my noble friend, who always has a more ruthless and intellectual analysis of t...
Lord Howe of Aberavon | 728 c601-2 (Link to this contribution) Since my name stands on the Marshalled List below that of the noble Lord, Lord Kerr, it is right tha...
Lord Liddle | 728 c606 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, from the Opposition’s point of view, exotic as it may seem that we should at this moment b...
Baroness Williams of Crosby | 728 c603-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am reluctant to intervene, even briefly, in this marvellous ballet of Chancellors, which...
Lord Martin of Springburn | 728 c605 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Baroness. I have listened to her not only here but in the other place and I have a...
Baroness Williams of Crosby | 728 c605 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Martin, but I think he misunderstood my point. I was not advocatin...
Lord Lamont of Lerwick | 728 c605-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I hope the noble Baroness, Lady Williams, will forgive me if I do not entirely follow her ...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 728 c597 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have great respect for the noble Baroness, Lady Anelay, in these matters. While it is cl...
Lord Hannay of Chiswick | 728 c597 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the Chief Whip for having come to a very statesmanlike conclusion on this matter. ...
Lord Hannay of Chiswick | 728 c595-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I wish to protest, frankly, at what I can only describe as an extremely underhand manoeuvr...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 728 c596 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it may be helpful if I just point out at this stage that it is for each individual Peer to...
Lord Kerr of Kinlochard | 728 c598-600 (Link to this contribution) This is a slightly different order of amendment from those that we have just considered. I fear that...
Lord Garel-Jones | 728 c600 (Link to this contribution) As the noble Lord, Lord Kerr, has already said—he has more experience than me—there are three very d...
Lord Hannay of Chiswick | 728 c597 (Link to this contribution) 15: Clause 6, page 4, line 38, after ““defence”” insert ““that permits a single, integrated military...
Lord Kerr of Kinlochard | 728 c598 (Link to this contribution) 22: After Clause 6, insert the following new Clause— ““Decision to join the euro (1) No notification...
Lord Kerr of Kinlochard | 728 c600-1 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Garel-Jones. I was Private Secretary to the noble and learned Lord...
Lord Lea of Crondall | 728 c601 (Link to this contribution) I wonder if there is a special case in this. Some of us approach this question from the hypothetical...
Lord Howell of Guildford | 728 c588-9 (Link to this contribution) I totally disagree; I think that it is pertinent and a healthy reminder of what happens. We can cont...
Lord Hannay of Chiswick | 728 c589-91 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am most grateful to all noble Lords who have contributed to this lengthy and interesting...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 728 c594 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it is my understanding that these amendments are not consequential on Amendment 14, on whi...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 728 c594 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the procedure when seeking any agreement on consequential amendments is, first of all, tha...
Lord Triesman | 728 c594-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, in almost all other circumstances I would not have dreamt of getting to my feet to argue t...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 728 c595 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, in 13 years of opposition, we never thought to press an amendment that was not consequenti...
Baroness Williams of Crosby | 728 c595 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, from these Benches I support the view that most of us believed that these amendments were ...
Lord Hannay of Chiswick | 728 c588 (Link to this contribution) On one small point of fact, the noble Lord, Lord Howell, said that we have just given up the veto on...
Lord Howell of Guildford | 728 c587-8 (Link to this contribution) I respect what my noble friend is saying, but one has only to pause for a moment and think about the...
Lord Goodhart | 728 c586-7 (Link to this contribution) I accept that other countries in the European Union have been very reluctant, as have our Government...
Lord Howell of Guildford | 728 c583-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we have had a rather amazing debate in which I found all kinds of echoes of agreement that...
Lord Liddle | 728 c581-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we have had a long debate on this set of amendments. We on the opposition Front Bench stro...
Lord Maclennan of Rogart | 728 c580-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, perhaps I may intervene briefly at the end of a fascinating debate. Those who are opposed ...
Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean | 728 c579-80 (Link to this contribution) No, my Lords, of course that is not the case. The point about what has happened in the very recent p...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 728 c579 (Link to this contribution) I am most obliged to the noble Baroness for giving way. Would it not have been more pertinent if the...
Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean | 728 c579 (Link to this contribution) I will give way in a moment. Perhaps it would be pertinent to suggest that there should be a referen...
Baroness Williams of Crosby | 728 c647 (Link to this contribution) I will always take instructions from my former colleague, the noble Lord on the other Benches. I com...
Lord Howell of Guildford | 728 c647-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, when my noble friend Lady Williams speaks about the need for strengthening the teaching in...
Lord Radice | 728 c647 (Link to this contribution) I would prefer the amendment to be much wider, but it would then be out of order.
Lord Willoughby de Broke | 728 c645-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I think that this is rather a sad amendment. It demonstrates the Europhiles’ lack of confi...
Baroness Williams of Crosby | 728 c646-7 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Willoughby de Broke, has perhaps underestimated some of the forces out there th...
Lord Triesman | 728 c638 (Link to this contribution) 31: After Clause 13, insert the following new Clause— ““Promotion of United Kingdom’s membership of ...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 728 c636 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I supported this amendment in Committee and we had quite a good debate about it. I am not ...
Lord Hamilton of Epsom | 728 c635 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend prides himself on his consistency, but that decision put the issue to bed at the tim...
Lord Deben | 728 c635 (Link to this contribution) I was opposed to that referendum, as I have always been opposed to referenda. I am absolutely consis...
Lord Hamilton of Epsom | 728 c635 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I very much sympathise with my noble friend Lady Brinton because it is unlikely that any G...
Lord Willoughby de Broke | 728 c637-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to all noble Lords who have spoken in the debate. The noble Lord, Lord Deben...
Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 728 c636-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this is the second time that we have examined an amendment of this nature. It did not find...
Lord Liddle | 728 c636 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the Opposition cannot support the amendment. The reasons why many have spoken against it a...
Lord Triesman | 728 c638-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this is very close to an amendment that my noble friend Lord Radice moved in Committee. Fo...
Lord Risby | 728 c639 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I very much agree with some of the underlying sentiments of the noble Lord, Lord Triesman....
Lord Risby | 728 c639-40 (Link to this contribution) I discussed this episode with Mr Keith Vaz and I am not sure that he felt it was one of the high poi...
Lord Dykes | 728 c639 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to my noble friend for giving way, but has he not left out the vital fact that a ...
Lord Risby | 728 c640 (Link to this contribution) If a Government have got that far and want to test public opinion, it is very unlikely that they wou...
Lord Lea of Crondall | 728 c640 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the noble Lord for giving way, but I am rather intrigued by his clear statemen...
Lord Risby | 728 c640 (Link to this contribution) That would certainly be the case; I entirely agree with my noble friend. The way to change people’s ...
Lord Hamilton of Epsom | 728 c640 (Link to this contribution) Surely it goes somewhat further than that; if the Government put forward a referendum that they are ...
Baroness Falkner of Margravine | 728 c642-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have considerable sympathy with this amendment. In the course of the last three months w...
Lord Radice | 728 c640-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support the amendment in the names of the noble Lords, Lord Triesman and Lord Liddle. I ...
Viscount Trenchard | 728 c643 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am afraid that, although I listened with great interest to my noble friend Lady Falkner,...
Lord Dykes | 728 c643-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I agree very much with the earlier utterances and express regret that I cannot agree with ...
Lord Hamilton of Epsom | 728 c645 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have heard my noble friend Lord Dykes say on previous occasions that the only cause of E...
Lord Howell of Guildford | 728 c626-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this amendment seeks to remove Article 346(2) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the Euro...
Lord Triesman | 728 c625-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it may dismay the House, but I will pick up from the point where this argument has arrived...
Baroness Nicholson of Winterbourne | 728 c625 (Link to this contribution) I must admit that this is a very compelling argument from this side of the House. I am sure that the...
Baroness Nicholson of Winterbourne | 728 c624-5 (Link to this contribution) I accept that the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, wishes to exemplify the argument that the noble Lord, Lor...
Lord Hannay of Chiswick | 728 c624 (Link to this contribution) I think that the noble Baroness has the wrong end of the stick. I do not see how on earth Britain ke...
Baroness Nicholson of Winterbourne | 728 c624 (Link to this contribution) My point was purely that from my experience and that of others in Brussels, a number of member state...
Lord Davies of Stamford | 728 c624 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may try to help the noble Baroness. Of course I did not suggest that adopting QMV in this ...
Baroness Nicholson of Winterbourne | 728 c623 (Link to this contribution) In moving his amendment, the noble Lord has not explained to my satisfaction, or perhaps to the sati...
Lord Davies of Stamford | 728 c621-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it would be possible to make a well founded and persuasive argument to get rid of all the ...
Lord Deben | 728 c634 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I find this a fascinating amendment because those of us who are opposed to referenda in an...
Lord Willoughby de Broke | 728 c633-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I brought a similar amendment to this in Committee which did not find favour with the Gove...
Lord Hamilton of Epsom | 728 c631 (Link to this contribution) As the noble Lord was responsible for the posting of the aircraft carrier orders, why were they not ...
Lord Davies of Stamford | 728 c631-2 (Link to this contribution) As a matter of fact, I would be very proud to take credit for those particular contracts, but that c...
Lord Howell of Guildford | 728 c627 (Link to this contribution) It is unlikely to be shortened, but I do not think that any of us can be sure. Protectionist pressur...
Lord Kerr of Kinlochard | 728 c627 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for letting me intervene. The point that he is making is absolutely right—it co...
Lord Howell of Guildford | 728 c628-9 (Link to this contribution) I am not a Latin scholar, but I have a feeling that there is a Latin phrase to describe what the nob...
Lord Kerr of Kinlochard | 728 c628 (Link to this contribution) The Minister is now making a general argument against the Single European Act and against having qua...
Baroness Brinton | 728 c634-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I cannot really follow the points of the noble Lord, Lord Deben, on referenda. I disagree ...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 728 c569 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I think that I have taken part in virtually all our Committee days. We are beginning to ge...
Lord Richard | 728 c569 (Link to this contribution) I have listened to the noble Lord for 20 years. He has been a passionate supporter of parliamentary ...
Lord Faulks | 728 c567-8 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord and I accept his point. I am not quite sure what is the position of ...
Lord Risby | 728 c568-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, perhaps we could return to the Laeken declaration, which signified a very important moment...
Lord Faulks | 728 c567 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord for his intervention. I listened carefully to what he said and took ...
Lord Goodhart | 728 c567 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend may be right on those particular points, but that would surely be a good reason for ...
Lord Faulks | 728 c566 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the amendment seeks to remove the referendum lock from all potential transfers of powers a...
Lord Hannay of Chiswick | 728 c567 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the noble Lord for giving way, but he has managed in about three sentences to ...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 728 c570 (Link to this contribution) Of course the noble Baroness is entitled to challenge what I have said. I accept that she did not sa...
Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean | 728 c570 (Link to this contribution) I was the lead Minister on the Amsterdam and Nice treaties. I stood at the Dispatch Box and argued f...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 728 c569-70 (Link to this contribution) Of course, I have listened to the noble Lord, Lord Richard, for longer than 20 years, and I know tha...
Lord Richard | 728 c574 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, to follow the argument advanced by the noble Lord, Lord Empey, on referenda, the last few ...
Lord Empey | 728 c574-5 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Richard, caught me as I was sitting down. I think he has misunderstood the poin...
Lord Dobbs | 728 c571-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Davies, has tested our memories, and I ask noble Lords to test theirs...
Lord Empey | 728 c572-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Davies of Stamford, referred to the argument about Parliament and sai...
Baroness Nicholson of Winterbourne | 728 c573 (Link to this contribution) I apologise for interrupting the noble Lord, Lord Empey, but the facts are very firmly against him. ...
Lord Empey | 728 c573-4 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Baroness for her comments. I understand the argument for subsidiarity. I was part ...
Lord Radice | 728 c575 (Link to this contribution) Is the noble Lord, Lord Hamilton, actually arguing that it is not legitimate to amend this Bill? He ...
Lord Hamilton of Epsom | 728 c576 (Link to this contribution) I think that the noble Lord would accept that, enshrined or otherwise, the red lines have until now ...
Lord Flight | 728 c578 (Link to this contribution) Does the noble Baroness agree that there is a difference between how people vote at elections and wh...
Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean | 728 c578-9 (Link to this contribution) The fact that there is a difference in Parliament from what happens at elections is precisely what w...
Lord Lamont of Lerwick | 728 c576-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Dobbs, said in a very amusing and eloquent speech that the face of th...
Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean | 728 c578 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Lamont, has gone to the heart of the issue in many ways and I applaud...
Lord Dobbs | 728 c579 (Link to this contribution) Does the noble Baroness accept that I was trying to make the point that there should be moderation a...
Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean | 728 c579 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, of course it is a question of balance and common sense. Where do we find arguments about b...
Lord Hannay of Chiswick | 728 c551 (Link to this contribution) 14: Clause 6, page 4, line 34, leave out from ““Parliament”” to end of line 35
Lord Hannay of Chiswick | 728 c552-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I will speak to the long list of the amendments in this group. Because some amendments in ...
Lord Liddle | 728 c559 (Link to this contribution) If I am correct, Mr Blair made his referendum commitment in 1996.
Lord Waddington | 728 c558-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Rowlands, was very eloquent, and I can well understand how he has rea...
Lord Rowlands | 728 c557-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, over the whole of my parliamentary lifetime I have always had a Eurosceptic disposition. I...
Baroness Nicholson of Winterbourne | 728 c554-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall comment briefly on the important set of amendments which the noble Lord, Lord Hann...
Lord Radice | 728 c559 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend is right. In fact, the Labour Party committed itself in 1994 to a referendum on the ...
Lord Waddington | 728 c559 (Link to this contribution) That had escaped my notice. By the end of the 1990s, he was certainly sending out messages that he t...
Lord Liddle | 728 c559 (Link to this contribution) Mr Blair made a commitment to have a referendum on the euro well in advance of the 1997 general elec...
Lord Waddington | 728 c559 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry, will you please repeat that?
Lord Goodhart | 728 c560-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, my noble friend Lord Waddington said early in his speech that some Members of your Lordshi...
Lord Waddington | 728 c560 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps we could have a sweepstake and people could put in their bids; we have had 1996, 1994 and 20...
Lord Flight | 728 c562-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Lords proposing these amendments seem not to understand yet, notwithstanding the...
Lord Flight | 728 c564 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord for giving way. It may be that he was more involved at the time than I was, a...
Lord Davies of Stamford | 728 c563-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I rise to do two things. One is to address the contention made by the noble Lord, Lord Wad...
Lord Davies of Stamford | 728 c564 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may resume my remarks and then of course I will give way to my noble friend Lord Lea. Give...
Lord Lea of Crondall | 728 c564 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry—I do not know who is speaking and who is intervening here.
Lord Davies of Stamford | 728 c564-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the second point to which I wanted to draw attention is a theme that has come through in a...
Lord Lea of Crondall | 728 c564 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to my noble friend. Perhaps I may give an even more telling example that gives th...
Lord Waddington | 728 c566 (Link to this contribution) As the noble Lord has been kind enough to bring me into this debate, is there not a difference betwe...
Lord Kerr of Kinlochard | 728 c565 (Link to this contribution) I support the final point made the noble Lord, Lord Davies, and the final point made by the noble Lo...
Lord Kerr of Kinlochard | 728 c566 (Link to this contribution) I could repeat my Burke quotation with which I thought I had skewered the noble Lord, Lord Waddingto...
Lord Flight | 728 c566 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord for giving way. I spent eight or nine years as a Member of the House of Commo...
Lord Kerr of Kinlochard | 728 c566 (Link to this contribution) I look forward to hearing the noble Lord express that view in the debate on the reform of the House ...
Lord Geddes | 728 c594 (Link to this contribution) Amendments 15 to 21 moved formally en bloc, Lord Hannay?
Lord Hannay of Chiswick | 728 c594 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, if I may, I will respond to some extremely mysterious words from the Government Chief Whip...
Lord Hamilton of Epsom | 728 c625 (Link to this contribution) Does my noble friend not feel that if the argument of the noble Lord, Lord Davies of Stamford, is so...
Lord Davies of Stamford | 728 c629-31 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am deeply grateful for the consideration which the House has given to my amendment and f...
Lord Hamilton of Epsom | 728 c575-6 (Link to this contribution) I am very glad that the noble Lord, Lord Radice, has mentioned that point. This Bill covers a large ...
Lord Grenfell | 728 c576 (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Lord sits down, he appeared to suggest that there were a large number of red lines ...
Lord Hamilton of Epsom | 728 c609 (Link to this contribution) Is not the other side of my noble friend Lord Lawson’s argument that if we take the decision in prin...
Lord Willoughby de Broke | 728 c633 (Link to this contribution) 30: After Clause 12, insert the following new Clause— ““Repeat referendums Where a referendum has be...
Lord Hamilton of Epsom | 728 c575 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have been on a steepish learning curve for the duration of this Bill and one of the more...

Subjects

Administration of justice
Armed forces
Defence equipment
EU law
European communities
Euro
Powers
Prosecutions
Referendums
Sovereignty
Treaties
Treaty on European Union
UK membership of EU
Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union
EU defence policy
Treaty of Lisbon

Legislation

European Union Bill 2010-12

Link

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