UK Parliament / Open data

Parliamentary Standards Bill

Debate on bills on Monday, 29 June 2009, in the House of Commons, led by Jack Straw. The answering member was Dominic Grieve.

Parliamentary Standards Bill. Second reading debate. Agreed to on division (291 votes to 1). Programme motion on proceedings in Committee, on Report, Third Reading and any other proceedings. Agreed to on division (254 votes to 73). Queen's recommendation signified. Money resolution agreed to on question. [Relevant Documents: Memorandum from the Audit Committees on the Parliamentary Standards Bill; Written evidence received by the Justice Committee on Constitutional Reform and Renewal, HC 791-i.]

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

495 c44-135

Session

2008-09

Constitutional reform and renewal. Evidence 30 June 2009. (Printed in HC 791).
Tuesday, 30 June 2009
Parliamentary committees
House of Commons

Proceeding contributions

Speaker | 495 c68 (Link to this contribution) Order. I have to remind the House that Mr. Speaker has placed a 15-minute limit on Back-Bench speech...

Alan Duncan | 495 c113 (Link to this contribution) Given where the hon. Gentleman sits for and what he has said about outside interests, what is his vi...

Show all contributions (247)

Mark Field | 495 c117-9 (Link to this contribution) It is a privilege to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Wycombe (Mr. Goodman). One of the most dep...

Dominic Grieve | 495 c116 (Link to this contribution) Yes.

Lord Goodman of Wycombe | 495 c116-7 (Link to this contribution) My hon. and learned Friend says, unhesitatingly, yes, and he will know, as we all do, that the Bill ...

Bernard Jenkin | 495 c116 (Link to this contribution) I should like to share an irony with my hon. Friend. Whereas Back-Bench Members of Parliament with o...

Lord Goodman of Wycombe | 495 c116 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes his point very well. That is why Ministers favour neither the old-fashioned ide...

Jack Straw | 495 c115 (Link to this contribution) I am following the hon. Gentleman's argument, but, as I said earlier, it is worth looking at the evi...

Lord Goodman of Wycombe | 495 c115 (Link to this contribution) But my prediction is that there will be still fewer rebellions if the Bill goes through in its prese...

Mark Durkan | 495 c113-4 (Link to this contribution) I have clearly said that in Northern Ireland, for instance, we need to set a clear point in the elec...

Lord Goodman of Wycombe | 495 c114-5 (Link to this contribution) The Prime Minister has, in effect, handed us this Bill rather like a man handing a motorway map to a...

Lord Field of Birkenhead | 495 c120 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman help me to divide the House against this Bill tonight?

Richard Shepherd | 495 c119-20 (Link to this contribution) When I came here, I came here as a Member of a Parliament. I look back across 30 years and I think, ...

Bernard Jenkin | 495 c121-2 (Link to this contribution) Will my hon. and learned Friend confirm whether, if I were to compliment an hon. Member on the way i...

Dominic Grieve | 495 c122-5 (Link to this contribution) The fact that the rules are linked to regulations on declarations of interest and what constitutes p...

Baroness Keeley | 495 c125 (Link to this contribution) This has been a lively debate. I believe that we must act now to build on the interim measures that ...

Alan Duncan | 495 c125 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Lady give way?

Richard Shepherd | 495 c120 (Link to this contribution) I certainly will. I think that is an important statement to make, and I also hope the right hon. Gen...

Lord Field of Birkenhead | 495 c121 (Link to this contribution) Against it.

Richard Shepherd | 495 c121 (Link to this contribution) Yes, on the guillotine and against it. All I am doing is asking the House to face up to these things...

Dominic Grieve | 495 c121 (Link to this contribution) When I came to this debate today, I was not sure whether the anxieties I felt about this legislation...

Baroness Keeley | 495 c126 (Link to this contribution) The shadow Leader of the House had a great deal more time than has been allocated to me. I want to g...

Baroness Keeley | 495 c125 (Link to this contribution) No, there is not time. [Interruption.] Hon. Members have raised specific points of detail, and I wan...

David Heathcoat-Amory | 495 c127-8 (Link to this contribution) The point about the Congress is that it does set its remuneration, but that comes into effect after ...

Baroness Keeley | 495 c128 (Link to this contribution) Indeed, but Congress has more regular elections than we do, so it is easier for Congress to decide t...

Alan Duncan | 495 c126 (Link to this contribution) I have a simple question. The Minister construes the argument on privilege in terms of why privilege...

Baroness Keeley | 495 c126-7 (Link to this contribution) No. We do not accept that. We will return to the topic time and again over the next couple of days. ...

Baroness Keeley | 495 c128 (Link to this contribution) No, I shall not give way at the moment. The key—[Interruption.]

James Gray | 495 c128 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister give way?

Speaker | 495 c128 (Link to this contribution) Order. Mr. Gray, it is very clear that the Minister is not giving way. Stay in your seat and listen....

Speaker | 495 c129 (Link to this contribution) You are certainly seeking to enter into a debate, Mr. Robathan, but I am afraid that it does not con...

Baroness Keeley | 495 c129 (Link to this contribution) The Bill should sweep away the old system of MPs' self-regulation in which people no longer have any...

Andrew Dismore | 495 c82-5 (Link to this contribution) It is an honour to follow the right hon. Member for North-West Hampshire (Sir George Young), the Cha...

Lord Young of Cookham | 495 c79-82 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. and learned Friend. My hon. Friend the Member for North Essex (Mr. Jenkin) ...

Dominic Grieve | 495 c79 (Link to this contribution) I hope that I am not pre-empting my right hon. Friend, but does not another aspect of the Bill dovet...

Lord Young of Cookham | 495 c78-9 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Member for Birkenhead (Mr. Field) made a powerful speech that commanded respect from ...

Lord Cormack | 495 c87 (Link to this contribution) The House has just heard three exceptionally interesting and thoughtful speeches. I appreciate that ...

Andrew Dismore | 495 c85-7 (Link to this contribution) The hon. and learned Gentleman makes an important point, with which I agree. A subordinate point rel...

Dominic Grieve | 495 c85 (Link to this contribution) I am following carefully the hon. Gentleman's arguments, which seem to be well founded. Does he also...

Lord Field of Birkenhead | 495 c77-8 (Link to this contribution) That is why I am confessing my bad behaviour to the House. Before reading the Bill, I thought that w...

Bernard Jenkin | 495 c77 (Link to this contribution) The Bill is even worse than the right hon. Gentleman suggests. Under the measure, the conversation t...

Lord Field of Birkenhead | 495 c77 (Link to this contribution) Of course we could put all that into the requirement. Clause 5(8) is unfair and unworkable; moreove...

Jack Straw | 495 c89 (Link to this contribution) I accept the compliment from the hon. Gentleman and thank him very much. At the time that the Justic...

Natascha Engel | 495 c91-2 (Link to this contribution) It is a privilege to follow the hon. Member for South Staffordshire (Sir Patrick Cormack), who is th...

Speaker | 495 c91 (Link to this contribution) Order. Before I call the hon. Member for North-East Derbyshire (Natascha Engel), I should give notic...

Natascha Engel | 495 c92-3 (Link to this contribution) That is at the heart of what I was going to say. There is currently a very good and direct link betw...

Nick Harvey | 495 c92 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady attaches great value to giving the public an opportunity to talk to us and learn about...

Lord Cormack | 495 c87-9 (Link to this contribution) I was not criticising the Justice Secretary in any way, but merely drawing to his attention some ver...

Jack Straw | 495 c87 (Link to this contribution) Just to explain, I was out of the Chamber because I needed to attend a meeting with the Speaker.

Lord Cormack | 495 c89 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman, and we owe his Committee a real debt of gratitude, but wh...

Lord Beith | 495 c89 (Link to this contribution) The Clerk's memorandum was his very proper response to a request from the Justice Committee that he ...

Natascha Engel | 495 c94 (Link to this contribution) I do not entirely agree with that. The motivation behind introducing the Bill is to address the prob...

Lord Beith | 495 c94-5 (Link to this contribution) My intervention in this debate as Chairman of the Justice Committee follows contributions from the C...

Natascha Engel | 495 c93 (Link to this contribution) I was making a point of principle. I think that everyone agrees that, today and this week, we are tr...

Jack Straw | 495 c94 (Link to this contribution) May I reassure my hon. Friend on this? We have worked out the structure of this authority in such a ...

Richard Shepherd | 495 c93 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady may not recall that the present position is a result of a statutory instrument laid on...

Lord Mann | 495 c97 (Link to this contribution) The unease is among Members of Parliament, is it not? It is not among the general public, who wonder...

Lord Beith | 495 c97-8 (Link to this contribution) The unease among the general public is more than unease—it is anger, and a very real anger. It is no...

Dominic Grieve | 495 c95-6 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the right hon. Gentleman's analysis. Is there not another problem? There has been some ...

Lord Beith | 495 c96-7 (Link to this contribution) Yes. To some extent, the reputational damage is inevitable, because of the nature of the issues and ...

Jack Straw | 495 c99 (Link to this contribution) Is that your best point?

Elfyn Llwyd | 495 c99 (Link to this contribution) It is not my best point. I say to the right hon. Gentleman that I know many police officers who woul...

Richard Shepherd | 495 c99 (Link to this contribution) On a guillotine.

Elfyn Llwyd | 495 c99-100 (Link to this contribution) As the hon. Gentleman says, neither should it be subject to a guillotine. We should have plenty of o...

Jack Straw | 495 c98 (Link to this contribution) It is still there.

Elfyn Llwyd | 495 c98 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman, who is smiling, says that it is still on the statute book. I could also ci...

David Heathcoat-Amory | 495 c100-1 (Link to this contribution) I very much agree with what the hon. Member for Meirionnydd Nant Conwy (Mr. Llwyd) had to say, in pa...

Robert Smith | 495 c101 (Link to this contribution) When those outside hear us talking about privilege, they may think that we are talking about ourselv...

David Heathcoat-Amory | 495 c101-2 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the hon. Gentleman. Parliamentary rights—and through those the rights of the people who...

Adam Afriyie | 495 c102 (Link to this contribution) Is it not possible that the Kelly review may recommend that there should be no salaries and no expen...

Bob Spink | 495 c103 (Link to this contribution) Does the right hon. Gentleman not think that if we are seen to be resisting legal sanctions in cases...

David Heathcoat-Amory | 495 c103-4 (Link to this contribution) We are not resisting criminal law. The point has already been made in this debate that the new offen...

David Heathcoat-Amory | 495 c102-3 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an acute point. We are prejudging the Kelly inquiry, and I hope that Sir Christ...

Natascha Engel | 495 c106 (Link to this contribution) Would the hon. Gentleman advocate job descriptions or minimum standards for Members of Parliament?

Adam Afriyie | 495 c104-5 (Link to this contribution) Today, the aim is to introduce a Bill that will restore the reputation of Parliament, or go some way...

Mark Field | 495 c105 (Link to this contribution) We designed it.

Dominic Grieve | 495 c108 (Link to this contribution) indicated assent.

Adam Afriyie | 495 c106-7 (Link to this contribution) I would not necessarily go that far, but we need to set a debate such as this in context. As the hon...

Lord Tyrie | 495 c108 (Link to this contribution) I am pleased to have a nod of support from my party's Front-Bench team, and to have had one when I i...

Dominic Grieve | 495 c108 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right to identify clause 10 as extremely controversial. A lot has been said tonigh...

Lord Tyrie | 495 c108-9 (Link to this contribution) I agree with every word of that. It is consonant with what the right hon. Member for Berwick-upon-Tw...

Speaker | 495 c109 (Link to this contribution) Order. May I say to the House that after the next speaker has finished I propose to reduce the time ...

Bernard Jenkin | 495 c110-2 (Link to this contribution) I invite the Justice Secretary to listen to my arguments. The Bill further undermines MPs' independ...

Mark Durkan | 495 c112-3 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure, if something of a challenge, to follow the hon. Member for North Essex (Mr. Jenkin...

Dominic Grieve | 495 c113 (Link to this contribution) The Government are right that the matter needs to be addressed urgently. Public disquiet is clearly ...

Mark Durkan | 495 c113 (Link to this contribution) I accept the hon. and learned Gentleman's point, but if the Government are to make adequate provisio...

Lord Swire | 495 c64 (Link to this contribution) No serving Member of the House of Commons can be a member of IPSA, but a retired Member of the Commo...

Alan Duncan | 495 c63 (Link to this contribution) Yes, and the Secretary of State may wish to collude with me on that answer. The decisions on pay and...

Lord Field of Birkenhead | 495 c63 (Link to this contribution) Is there anything in the Bill—I cannot find it—that would prevent a future Government from vetoing t...

Alan Duncan | 495 c63 (Link to this contribution) The shortest answer to my right hon. Friend is simply that this is the only respect in which we can ...

David Heathcoat-Amory | 495 c63 (Link to this contribution) The Leader of the Opposition has agreed with the Prime Minister about the need for more accountabili...

Alan Duncan | 495 c64 (Link to this contribution) That is essentially our party's policy. Of course, we would need to look at the exact words of any a...

Lord Tyrie | 495 c63-4 (Link to this contribution) Given what my hon. Friend said about the need to take the issue of pay directly out of the hands of ...

Alan Duncan | 495 c63 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Secretary of State for confirming what I said. On a small, technical point, giv...

Jack Straw | 495 c63 (Link to this contribution) The IPSA as currently constituted will deal only with allowances. The authority will effectively mak...

Alan Duncan | 495 c63 (Link to this contribution) I totally agree with my hon. Friend. Inasmuch as I have supported elements of the Bill, it is not th...

Lord Cormack | 495 c62 (Link to this contribution) Is it not one thing to have a body that regulates the conduct of elections and another thing entirel...

Alan Duncan | 495 c62 (Link to this contribution) Many hon. Members may think that the hon. Lady has got things the wrong way round. We need a body th...

David Winnick | 495 c60 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way on that point?

Alan Duncan | 495 c60 (Link to this contribution) That is not determined—it will be up to the authority—but I think it inconceivable that they will al...

David Winnick | 495 c60 (Link to this contribution) I am glad that the hon. Gentleman has made that point, and I am sure that my right hon. Friend the S...

Alan Duncan | 495 c60 (Link to this contribution) Yes. I shall bin some of my speech, give way to the hon. Gentleman and then canter on.

Jack Straw | 495 c61 (Link to this contribution) May I endorse what the hon. Gentleman has just said? I paid tribute to the staff of the Fees Office....

Alan Duncan | 495 c60-1 (Link to this contribution) Let me place on record that I think that the Fees Office and many of the staff have been put under i...

Natascha Engel | 495 c62 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps we need to go a couple of steps further and talk to the people whom we represent, identify w...

Alan Duncan | 495 c61-2 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Secretary of State for that comment. The central provision in this Bill—clause...

Alistair Carmichael | 495 c72 (Link to this contribution) From one point of view, that would be an eminently sensible procedure to follow. However, I have to ...

Elfyn Llwyd | 495 c72 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the hon. Gentleman. However, does he not think it would be even better if there were a ...

Alistair Carmichael | 495 c72 (Link to this contribution) The House rises on 22 July; if necessary—I hope that my wife does not read this—we could stay here u...

Jack Straw | 495 c72 (Link to this contribution) The reason is that we need to get the legislation through the other place and provide for any ping-p...

Alistair Carmichael | 495 c71-2 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State started by explaining the absence of the Leader of the House; I should explai...

Stuart Bell | 495 c68-71 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the opportunity to follow the shadow Leader of the House. He reads the same newspa...

Gerald Howarth | 495 c67 (Link to this contribution) I notice that my hon. Friend has not mentioned clause 5, which is of concern to a number of us. Will...

Alan Duncan | 495 c67-8 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has made that point in the House a number of times. The loose use of the phrase "full...

Alan Duncan | 495 c67 (Link to this contribution) I am happy to take that on board, and it sounds as though the House agrees with the hon. Member for ...

Lord Cormack | 495 c66 (Link to this contribution) Does not the Clerk also point out that in 1999 a Joint Committee of both Houses, on which I was priv...

Alan Duncan | 495 c65-6 (Link to this contribution) Indeed. They were asked to stand down from the investigation. In a way, that is against many of the ...

Alan Duncan | 495 c66 (Link to this contribution) I could not agree more with my hon. Friend. Our expenses regime and the Bill, together with the rece...

Lord Beith | 495 c64 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman allow me to intervene?

Lord Beith | 495 c64 (Link to this contribution) I declare an interest, as my wife is involved. I had better make it clear that the three parliamenta...

Alan Duncan | 495 c64 (Link to this contribution) The difference arises from the fact that a Member of the House of Lords is a Member for life, so the...

Lord Swire | 495 c64 (Link to this contribution) Hereditaries.

Lord Swire | 495 c76 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

Lord Field of Birkenhead | 495 c77 (Link to this contribution) I will happily give way, although I must say that the hon. Gentleman has done quite well with interv...

Alistair Carmichael | 495 c75 (Link to this contribution) With regard to the latter point, yes, what the hon. and learned Gentleman says has an undeniable log...

Lord Field of Birkenhead | 495 c75-6 (Link to this contribution) I am pleased to follow the hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland (Mr. Carmichael), because if an oppor...

Lord Swire | 495 c77 (Link to this contribution) Would the right hon. Gentleman concede that a lot of us spend an enormous amount of time on appointm...

Lord Field of Birkenhead | 495 c74 (Link to this contribution) That would be difficult for MPs.

Dominic Grieve | 495 c74-5 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman may agree with me about two things. First, the offence under clause 9(1), which i...

Alistair Carmichael | 495 c74 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman allows me an opportunity to explain. I am not arguing against the offences per se...

Alistair Carmichael | 495 c74 (Link to this contribution) Indeed. What would the consequences be for the effectiveness of any procedure that we set up if rig...

Lord Beith | 495 c73 (Link to this contribution) If the Government avoided proceeding with the parts of the Bill that get into the parliamentary priv...

Alistair Carmichael | 495 c73 (Link to this contribution) I cannot fault my right hon. Friend's reasoning in that regard. The concession that the Secretary o...

Lord Swire | 495 c73 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to ask for more time to go through the provisions in greater ...

Alistair Carmichael | 495 c73 (Link to this contribution) That is an entirely different point; the hon. Gentleman seeks to conflate two separate issues. I rem...

Andrew Dismore | 495 c73 (Link to this contribution) Although section 6 of the Human Rights Act excludes its operation as regards Parliament, we cannot e...

Alistair Carmichael | 495 c74 (Link to this contribution) The Committee goes on to make that point at some length in paragraph 284. I would say to the hon. Ge...

Alistair Carmichael | 495 c72 (Link to this contribution) I shall give way to the hon. Gentleman, as I have referred to him. I hope that my answer to his poin...

Alistair Carmichael | 495 c73 (Link to this contribution) I think that everything must now have been said about the timetabling.

Lord Cormack | 495 c72 (Link to this contribution) I am exceptionally grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving way and for what he said about the Comm...

Alan Duncan | 495 c59 (Link to this contribution) Not in the middle of a sentence. Individual Members and parties have taken steps to assuage public a...

Alan Duncan | 495 c58-9 (Link to this contribution) I am certain that in Committee tomorrow and on Wednesday that clause will excite a lot of attention ...

Lord Swire | 495 c59 (Link to this contribution) Will my hon. Friend give way?

Peter Luff | 495 c57 (Link to this contribution) Will the Secretary of State give way?

Jack Straw | 495 c57-8 (Link to this contribution) I have no time. There are Members who will try to argue—some have already done so—that we should de...

Alan Duncan | 495 c58 (Link to this contribution) I think that fairly summarises the position, but I also think it is fair to say that the Secretary o...

Peter Luff | 495 c58 (Link to this contribution) On that point, I hope that we will press the Government on clause 10 in particular. As a Select Comm...

Alan Duncan | 495 c58 (Link to this contribution) The past few months have been desperate ones for Parliament: the reputation of this House has taken ...

David Heathcoat-Amory | 495 c58 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State implied several times that the Bill is the result of an agreement between the...

Lord Field of Birkenhead | 495 c60 (Link to this contribution) I wonder whether the cross-party talks covered the following point—in a sense, I raise it from the t...

Jack Straw | 495 c60 (Link to this contribution) That's unusual for you.

Lord Field of Birkenhead | 495 c60 (Link to this contribution) Indeed; I hope that the irony was picked up. Many of the Fees Office staff have felt themselves to b...

Alan Duncan | 495 c59 (Link to this contribution) My evidence to the committee is online on the committee's website. Indeed, I have sent all colleague...

Alan Duncan | 495 c59 (Link to this contribution) It is on the website, and has had many thousands of hits already. The Bill had not been published or...

Lord Cormack | 495 c59 (Link to this contribution) Of course, it is right that Sir Christopher should be untrammelled and that he and his committee sho...

Alan Duncan | 495 c59 (Link to this contribution) In broad terms, I fully agree with my hon. Friend.

Elfyn Llwyd | 495 c59-60 (Link to this contribution) Further to the question that the hon. Gentleman was recently asked, I gave evidence today to the Kel...

Alan Duncan | 495 c60 (Link to this contribution) I take that as an intervention directed more towards the Secretary of State for Justice than me. As...

Jack Straw | 495 c55 (Link to this contribution) Of course we can look at that further, but I am certainly satisfied that the Bill does meet those re...

Lord Garnier | 495 c55 (Link to this contribution) What about clause 9?

Jack Straw | 495 c55 (Link to this contribution) That is our judgment. My right hon. and learned friend the Leader of the House would not have signed...

Jack Straw | 495 c55 (Link to this contribution) I am not giving way at the moment. We can go into these offences in more detail on Wednesday when w...

Alistair Carmichael | 495 c55 (Link to this contribution) I do not take issue with the creation of offences per se, but does the Secretary of State accept tha...

Denis MacShane | 495 c55 (Link to this contribution) Will my right hon. Friend give way on this particular point?

Jack Straw | 495 c55 (Link to this contribution) No, I must make some progress, and there are two days of debate in Committee. Clause 9 creates thre...

Jack Straw | 495 c57 (Link to this contribution) No. I am going to end my speech in a moment. Clause 10 states:""No enactment or rule of law which p...

Jack Straw | 495 c56 (Link to this contribution) I note what the hon. and learned Gentleman has said.

Denis MacShane | 495 c56 (Link to this contribution) I know—we all know—that the party leaders have agreed to this because they must satisfy headlines an...

Jack Straw | 495 c57 (Link to this contribution) I hope to be able to give my right hon. Friend some reassurance, but let me also say to him that, as...

Lord Garnier | 495 c57 (Link to this contribution) Will the Secretary of State give way?

Jack Straw | 495 c56 (Link to this contribution) No, I am going to make some more progress. [Interruption.] I mentioned the hon. and learned Member f...

Dominic Grieve | 495 c56 (Link to this contribution) Let me emphasise that we do support the principles of the Bill, and want to make it work. It is for ...

Jack Straw | 495 c56 (Link to this contribution) We can debate these clauses in more detail in Committee. I have already said that in our judgment t...

Jack Straw | 495 c48-9 (Link to this contribution) I do not accept that. The process was continuing when my right hon. and learned Friend the Leader of...

David Heathcoat-Amory | 495 c48 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman is now at least conceding that the Bill will affect parliamentary rights an...

Andrew Dismore | 495 c47 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my right hon. Friend. As he knows, I have tabled a couple of amendments, because I ...

Andrew Dismore | 495 c47 (Link to this contribution) Will my right hon. Friend give way?

Jack Straw | 495 c47 (Link to this contribution) As my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister made clear on 10 June, it is envisaged that in due course...

Lord Swire | 495 c47 (Link to this contribution) Some clauses in the Bill profoundly alter the relationship between Members of Parliament and the ele...

Dominic Grieve | 495 c46 (Link to this contribution) I welcome the Secretary of State's remarks about the scrutiny conducted in this House acting as an o...

Jack Straw | 495 c46 (Link to this contribution) I genuinely have no idea of what is being briefed by others. However, I raised an eyebrow when I saw...

Jack Straw | 495 c46 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman can hold his breath for a little while until we get to clause 6, I will give h...

Lord Cormack | 495 c45-6 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State may remember that on 18 June, only 11 days ago, I asked the Leader of the Hou...

Lord Garnier | 495 c46 (Link to this contribution) Following on from the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Mid-Sussex (Mr. Soames), of course...

Jack Straw | 495 c45 (Link to this contribution) I shall give way in due course, but I ask both Members to allow me to make a little progress before ...

Jack Straw | 495 c45 (Link to this contribution) I shall come back to both hon. Gentlemen in a second. To answer those and many other questions, the...

Jack Straw | 495 c46 (Link to this contribution) I will give way to the hon. Gentleman, but before he jumps up he must allow me to answer the questio...

Lord Field of Birkenhead | 495 c44 (Link to this contribution) Clearly, we will debate the extent to which fundamental changes are entailed by the Bill as well as ...

Jack Straw | 495 c44 (Link to this contribution) Of course I agree. As I shall explain to the House, all the way through the series of negotiations, ...

Lord Soames of Fletching | 495 c44 (Link to this contribution) Does the right hon. Gentleman nevertheless agree that it is extremely important not to confuse const...

Jack Straw | 495 c44 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time. As the House will be aware, this Bill has b...

Jack Straw | 495 c45 (Link to this contribution) Actually, the Cabinet spent a long time discussing the proposals, as did Cabinet Committees. The gre...

Bernard Jenkin | 495 c54 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the Secretary of State's concession. Contrary to what he suggested earlier, the qu...

Jack Straw | 495 c54 (Link to this contribution) Let me make some more progress. Clause 7 sets out the investigatory powers—[Interruption.] No, I ha...

Lord Cormack | 495 c54 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful. The right hon. Gentleman's concession, which we all accept and are delighted to ...

Jack Straw | 495 c54 (Link to this contribution) I know that this will be unpersuasive to the hon. Gentleman, but that is not the position of his lea...

Jack Straw | 495 c54 (Link to this contribution) I give way to the hon. Gentleman .

Denis MacShane | 495 c54 (Link to this contribution) Will my right hon. Friend give way?

Lord Cormack | 495 c54 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

Jack Straw | 495 c54 (Link to this contribution) I am Lord High Chancellor as well, which function I was undertaking this morning—[Interruption.]. I ...

John Redwood | 495 c54 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that excellent concession. On the registration of interests, given that the Member...

Jack Straw | 495 c53-4 (Link to this contribution) The—[Interruption.] Hold your breath! All those involved in the cross-party talks will confirm that ...

Lord Field of Birkenhead | 495 c52 (Link to this contribution) Will the Secretary of State give way?

Jack Straw | 495 c52 (Link to this contribution) No, I intend to make some progress first, then I will come back to this matter. Clause 3 provides t...

John Redwood | 495 c52 (Link to this contribution) Will the Secretary of State give way?

Jack Straw | 495 c52-3 (Link to this contribution) No, I want to make some progress. Clause 5 places a duty on IPSA to prepare rules relating to Membe...

Jack Straw | 495 c51 (Link to this contribution) I have discussed the matter with Sir Christopher Kelly, and I am certainly not going to say what his...

Lord Tyrie | 495 c51 (Link to this contribution) Did the Secretary of State consult Sir Christopher Kelly about the Bill and is he happy with it?

Jack Straw | 495 c51-2 (Link to this contribution) I was not present, but I am afraid I do not accept the burden of what my hon. Friend is saying. Sir ...

Tony Wright | 495 c51 (Link to this contribution) I was giving evidence to the Kelly committee but an hour or two ago, and I have to say that its memb...

Jack Straw | 495 c51 (Link to this contribution) I shall give way to the hon. Gentleman and then make some more progress.

Lord Young of Cookham | 495 c51 (Link to this contribution) Does the Secretary of State not risk retrospectively restricting the Kelly committee's terms of refe...

Jack Straw | 495 c51 (Link to this contribution) I do not think so, and—[Interruption.] I really do not. Let me just say to the right hon. Gentleman ...

Peter Tapsell | 495 c50 (Link to this contribution) Why not?

Jack Straw | 495 c50-1 (Link to this contribution) I will explain why not to the hon. Gentleman. He asked me a question and I would now like to answer ...

Jack Straw | 495 c50 (Link to this contribution) I do not accept that—

Peter Tapsell | 495 c50 (Link to this contribution) Why is it appropriate to go through this great constitutional rigmarole in advance of the recommenda...

Jack Straw | 495 c50 (Link to this contribution) I have already given way to the hon. Gentleman. Clause 2 provides that IPSA is to take over respons...

Lord Swire | 495 c50 (Link to this contribution) Will the Justice Secretary give way?

Jack Straw | 495 c49 (Link to this contribution) The hon. and learned Gentleman says, "freedom." It is there to protect freedom, and above all, the r...

Jack Straw | 495 c49 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry, but I will not give way. Putting matters right means a statute and external regulation,...

Jack Straw | 495 c49-50 (Link to this contribution) I want to make some progress. Later, if there is time, I may allow hon. Members to intervene. I hav...

Denis MacShane | 495 c50 (Link to this contribution) Will my right hon. Friend assure the House that members of the new "Guardian Council" for Members of...

Jack Straw | 495 c50 (Link to this contribution) I cannot make that commitment—[Interruption.] The House knows very well the reason for that. That do...

Lord Swire | 495 c50 (Link to this contribution) Will the Justice Secretary give way?

Jack Straw | 495 c50 (Link to this contribution) No. The provisions on the Commissioner for Parliamentary Investigations are set out in schedule 2. ...

Dominic Grieve | 495 c49 (Link to this contribution) Of course, I appreciate the Secretary of State's points. Indeed, perhaps the goalposts must be moved...

Dominic Grieve | 495 c49 (Link to this contribution) Freedom.

Jack Straw | 495 c49 (Link to this contribution) I am happy to follow up that specific point in Committee, but I say to the whole House that—yes—we n...

Baroness Keeley | 495 c128-9 (Link to this contribution) We will probably return to some of the points that were made in the debate, but, as I was saying, I ...

Lord Cormack | 495 c89-91 (Link to this contribution) I am starting to run out of time, so I simply respond by saying that that does not invalidate the pr...

Bernard Jenkin | 495 c109-10 (Link to this contribution) I very much enjoyed the speech by my hon. Friend the Member for Chichester (Mr. Tyrie), who conducte...

Alan Duncan | 495 c64 (Link to this contribution) Yes, there are hereditaries. Some past heads of the Committee on Standards in Public Life have been ...

Alan Duncan | 495 c64 (Link to this contribution) Yes, but then I will make progress, if I may.

Bridget Prentice | 495 c59 (Link to this contribution) What about our side?

Jack Straw | 495 c47-8 (Link to this contribution) Of course I agree with that. Although we may not have got the provisions exactly right, I think that...

Adam Afriyie | 495 c105-6 (Link to this contribution) Absolutely; that is why I partially take the blame. I have been here for four years, and along with ...

Lord Tyrie | 495 c107-8 (Link to this contribution) Legislation is certainly needed to restore public trust in Parliament, but this is a grossly inadequ...

Andrew Dismore | 495 c66-7 (Link to this contribution) Picking up on the point made by the hon. Member for South Staffordshire (Sir Patrick Cormack), does ...

Angus Robertson | 495 c74 (Link to this contribution) I think it would be helpful to get some clarification from the Liberal Democrats on the issue of off...

Jack Straw | 495 c47 (Link to this contribution) I shall give way one more time, and then I will make some progress.

Baroness Keeley | 495 c128 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman and I entered the House on the same day, and I have always regarded representing ...

Lord Robathan | 495 c129 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Will you confirm that the Parliamentary Reform Committee to which ...

Lord Beith | 495 c53 (Link to this contribution) This is one of the most difficult parts of the Bill. Does the Secretary of State recognise that, if ...

Elfyn Llwyd | 495 c98 (Link to this contribution) This has been an interesting debate with some good contributions, including the speech from the righ...

Jack Straw | 495 c110 (Link to this contribution) I know that it is commonplace to say that MPs have become less effective than they were, but all the...

Lord Swire | 495 c59 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to my hon. Friend. I understand that he has given evidence to Sir Christopher Kel...