UK Parliament / Open data

Counter-Terrorism Bill

Debate on bills on Tuesday, 1 April 2008, in the House of Commons, led by Baroness Smith of Malvern. The answering member was David Davis.
Counter-Terrorism Bill. Second reading debate. Agreed to on question. Programme motion on proceedings in Committee, on Report and Third Reading and other proceedings agreed to on question. Money resolution agreed to on question. Ways and means resolution agreed to on question. [Relevant documents: The Third Report from the Justice Committee on the Counter-Terrorism Bill, HC 405. The First Report from the Home Affairs Committee on the Government's Counter-Terrorism Proposals, HC 43, and minutes of evidence taken on 11th December 2007 and 19th February 2008, on the Counter-Terrorism Bill, HC 180-i and -ii. The Second Report from the Joint Committee on Human Rights on Counter-Terrorism Policy and Human Rights: 42 days, HC 156, the Ninth Report from the Committee on Counter-Terrorism Policy and Human Rights: Counter-Terrorism Bill, HC 199 and the Government Response, Cm. 7344, and the Tenth Report from the Committee on Counter-Terrorism Policy and Human Rights: Annual Renewal of Control Orders Legislation 2008, HC 356.]

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

474 c647-737 

Session

2007-08

Department

Home Office

Legislative stage

Second reading

Procedure

Programme motions
Money resolutions
Ways and means resolutions

Chamber / Committee

House of Commons chamber

Related items

Counter-Terrorism Bill. (Explanatory note Bill 63-EN published).
Thursday, 24 January 2008
Bills
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Counter-Terrorism Policy and Human Rights : Annual renewal of control orders legislation, and the Counter-Terrorism Bill. Government response to the eighth and ninth reports of 2007-08 from the Human Rights Joint Select Committee. (HC 356 and HC 199)
Wednesday, 26 March 2008
Command papers
House of Lords
House of Commons
Counter-Terrorism Policy and Human Rights (Eighth Report): Counter-Terrorism Bill. Human Rights Joint Select Committee ninth report with with proceedings and evidence.
Wednesday, 30 January 2008
Parliamentary committees
House of Lords
House of Commons

Show all related items (10)
Government's Counter-Terrorism Bill. Minutes of evidence 11 December 2007.
Tuesday, 11 December 2007
Parliamentary committees
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Government's Counter-Terrorism Bill. Minutes of evidence 19 February 2008.
Tuesday, 19 February 2008
Parliamentary committees
House of Commons
Counter-Terrorism Bill. Justice Select Committee third report with proceedings.
Tuesday, 4 March 2008
Parliamentary committees
House of Commons

Proceeding contributions

Speaker | 474 c732 (Link to this contribution) Order. The hon. Gentleman must withdraw the remark without qualification.
Speaker | 474 c732 (Link to this contribution) Order. The hon. Gentleman must withdraw that remark.

Show all contributions (281)
Speaker | 474 c710 (Link to this contribution) Order. We are not going to get everyone in if we stick at eight minutes, so to try to help the parti...
Speaker | 474 c673 (Link to this contribution) Order. Before I call the next speaker, may I remind the House that Mr. Speaker has put an eight-minu...
William Cash | 474 c734 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. ... My point of order, Mr. Speaker, is to do with the fact that w...
Speaker | 474 c734 (Link to this contribution) Order. Please have a seat. The fact that the hon. Gentleman did not get an intervention is not a poi...
Tony McNulty | 474 c734-5 (Link to this contribution) I do not think that I even got the full list of points down. I have not got anywhere near to replyin...
Tony McNulty | 474 c733 (Link to this contribution) I think you will find, Mr. Speaker, that it is called winding up, the aim of which is to refer to al...
Speaker | 474 c733 (Link to this contribution) Order. It is up to whichever hon. Member is addressing the House to decide whether to give way. If t...
John Baron | 474 c733 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. The Minister has directly referred to comments made by me and my h...
Tony McNulty | 474 c732 (Link to this contribution) Given that the Bill is the product of six months of internal deliberations and nine months of extern...
Tony McNulty | 474 c733-4 (Link to this contribution) I will not for the moment; I may, if I have time later. On the most serious matter, I think that, a...
Tony McNulty | 474 c732 (Link to this contribution) I can barely stand for fear of trembling. It is absurd when individuals who want to be taken serious...
John Baron | 474 c732 (Link to this contribution) I withdraw the remark, Mr. Speaker.
John Baron | 474 c732 (Link to this contribution) I will withdraw it, Mr. Speaker, but I would welcome the opportunity of coming back.
Tony McNulty | 474 c732 (Link to this contribution) No, I will not. Everyone accepts that these are serious matters, on which the House will properly d...
John Baron | 474 c732 (Link to this contribution) That is because he is a coward.
Speaker | 474 c732 (Link to this contribution) Order. The Minister is not giving way.
Rob Marris | 474 c730-1 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. and learned Gentleman agree that there is an intellectual contradiction in the positio...
Dominic Grieve | 474 c730 (Link to this contribution) I hope to avoid dancing on the head of a pin. If it were to be suggested that in a state of emergenc...
Tony McNulty | 474 c731-2 (Link to this contribution) The main thrust of the debate has been to the credit of the House. We have had a good debate on cont...
Dominic Grieve | 474 c731 (Link to this contribution) It may not have been fully understood by some hon. Members in their contributions today that, as the...
William Cash | 474 c728 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. and learned Friend accept that almost no attention has been given in the debate to the ...
Dominic Grieve | 474 c728-9 (Link to this contribution) There will be opportunities to take evidence, but the Public Bill Committee will not be in a positio...
Dominic Grieve | 474 c729-30 (Link to this contribution) I hope that I have not misrepresented the right hon. Gentleman's views. I spent some time reading hi...
Dominic Grieve | 474 c728 (Link to this contribution) The Home Secretary makes that point that it is not just terrorism, and this could apply to a much wi...
Dominic Grieve | 474 c727-8 (Link to this contribution) I hope that I will not disappoint the hon. Member for Sedgefield (Phil Wilson) if I say that he stru...
Phil Wilson | 474 c726-7 (Link to this contribution) International terrorism is the scourge of the modern age. It is pernicious; it percolates down throu...
John Baron | 474 c724-6 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to follow the hon. and learned Member for Medway (Mr. Marshall-Andrews), who has be...
Robert Marshall-Andrews | 474 c724 (Link to this contribution) There was none, and I hope that my hon. Friend feels that he is making precisely the point that I am...
Robert Marshall-Andrews | 474 c723-4 (Link to this contribution) In the past six months, we have heard a great deal about Britishness—indeed the former Attorney-Gene...
Jim Sheridan | 474 c724 (Link to this contribution) My hon. and learned Friend has been a consistent opponent of any attempt to introduce a counter-terr...
Sammy Wilson | 474 c722 (Link to this contribution) I wanted to intervene on an earlier point made by the hon. and learned Gentleman. Much has been made...
Joan Humble | 474 c720-1 (Link to this contribution) I share my hon. and learned Friend's concerns. Clause 64 proposes that the Secretary of State be gi...
Robert Marshall-Andrews | 474 c720 (Link to this contribution) May I say how much I applaud what my hon. Friend is saying about clause 64, which is an awful clause...
Lord Garnier | 474 c721-2 (Link to this contribution) I agree with what the hon. Member for Blackpool, North and Fleetwood (Mrs. Humble) said about part 6...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 474 c717 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman cast his mind back two years to when the Government were getting into a big ...
Jonathan Djanogly | 474 c717 (Link to this contribution) I shall first address the issue of increased detention-without-trial periods. I certainly support my...
Joan Humble | 474 c719-20 (Link to this contribution) With great pleasure, I rise to follow the many well-informed and passionate speeches that have been ...
Jonathan Djanogly | 474 c717-9 (Link to this contribution) Yes, indeed. The Government did not provide any evidence then, and they have not provided any now. T...
Pete Wishart | 474 c714-5 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Hackney, North and Stoke Newington (Ms Abbott), with ...
Frank Cook | 474 c715-7 (Link to this contribution) A large chunk of my education was received at the hands of the Jesuits. They always taught us that o...
Alistair Carmichael | 474 c711 (Link to this contribution) The creation of a grand jury would be a novel concept for any jurisdiction in the United Kingdom, an...
Pete Wishart | 474 c711-2 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman will note, as I did, that the Glasgow bombers will return to England under Englis...
Alistair Carmichael | 474 c710-1 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Walsall, North (Mr. Winnick). I remember his speech i...
David Heath | 474 c711 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right to concentrate on that point. The Government seem to be attemptin...
Alistair Carmichael | 474 c712 (Link to this contribution) I would love to give way to the hon. Gentleman, but I have already taken a couple of interventions, ...
Diane Abbott | 474 c712-4 (Link to this contribution) Like most Londoners, I can remember exactly where I was when I heard about the 7/7 bombings, and, li...
Alistair Carmichael | 474 c712 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman, with his contacts in Edinburgh, probably knows more about that than I do. The c...
Dominic Grieve | 474 c712 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Speaker | 474 c709 (Link to this contribution) Order. That intervention is too long, especially as we are in a very tight time-limited situation.
Andrew Dismore | 474 c702-3 (Link to this contribution) The Joint Committee on Human Rights, which I chair, has produced 10 reports on counter-terrorism pol...
Dominic Grieve | 474 c703 (Link to this contribution) I want to reassure the hon. Gentleman that while we want to see post-charge questioning, systems nee...
Andrew Dismore | 474 c703-5 (Link to this contribution) I will not go through the particular safeguards, because the hon. Member for Eastleigh (Chris Huhne)...
Patrick Mercer | 474 c705-7 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Hendon (Mr. Dismore). I am delighted to hear that he ...
Sammy Wilson | 474 c707 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is making a powerful point that resonates with many of us from Northern Ireland. ...
Patrick Mercer | 474 c707-8 (Link to this contribution) I take the hon. Gentleman's point entirely, but I would say this: we have gone far enough. We have l...
David Winnick | 474 c708-9 (Link to this contribution) I am pleased to follow a fellow member of the Home Affairs Committee. Let us at least agree on one ...
Peter Soulsby | 474 c709 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has referred to the overwhelming evidence given to the Home Affairs Committee and oth...
Ben Wallace | 474 c701-2 (Link to this contribution) When the Bill was introduced, the Home Secretary said that it was partly the result of lessons learn...
Graham Stuart | 474 c700 (Link to this contribution) I am extremely grateful to the hon. Lady for giving way. Does she seriously believe that in August, ...
Dari Taylor | 474 c700-1 (Link to this contribution) I believe that this is a very responsible House, and if it is deemed appropriate, Members will retur...
Dari Taylor | 474 c700 (Link to this contribution) Of course, sorry. I should explain that I am slightly deaf tonight. I think that I have the flu, so ...
Dari Taylor | 474 c700 (Link to this contribution) The Bill states that if Parliament does not support the reason for the enactment of legislation perm...
David TC Davies | 474 c699 (Link to this contribution) May I point out to the hon. Lady that I and other Members of the Home Affairs Committee met very sen...
Dari Taylor | 474 c699-700 (Link to this contribution) I did not believe that I was misrepresenting anybody's views. I was simply quoting what I heard toda...
Dominic Grieve | 474 c699 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady asks a rather pertinent question. I do not think that there is any material to be plac...
Dari Taylor | 474 c699 (Link to this contribution) I listened carefully, as I believe the whole House did, to the Home Secretary's speech, in which the...
Speaker | 474 c696 (Link to this contribution) Order. The hon. Gentleman looks as though he knows what I am about to say. He must be careful about ...
Lord Goodman of Wycombe | 474 c696-8 (Link to this contribution) Mr. Deputy Speaker, I was not in any sense going to comment on the trial. I was simply going to make...
Dari Taylor | 474 c698-9 (Link to this contribution) I will concentrate my comments on reserve powers, the need to extend pre-charge detention and the us...
John Baron | 474 c693 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman accept that there are similarities between internment in Northern Ireland du...
George Galloway | 474 c693-4 (Link to this contribution) Indeed. I was about to turn to that very point. If Ministers listen to no one else in the debate, le...
Frank Dobson | 474 c694-6 (Link to this contribution) Today's debate has been about not whether to counter terrorism, but how best to counter terrorism. W...
Lord Goodman of Wycombe | 474 c696 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to follow the right hon. Member for Holborn and St. Pancras (Frank Dobson). I agree...
John Heppell | 474 c691-2 (Link to this contribution) No, I cannot give way as I have no more time. There may be a need to go beyond 28 days. If so, the ...
George Galloway | 474 c692-3 (Link to this contribution) Not since Rocky Marciano fought Don Cockell has there been a more one-sided contest than we have wit...
Tony McNulty | 474 c735-6 (Link to this contribution) I cannot, honestly. The Bill, if passed in its entirety, will not be a propaganda tool for al-Qaeda...
Alistair Carmichael | 474 c681 (Link to this contribution) I am a former prosecutor. Those who suggest that lawyers working in our prosecution service, be they...
Chris Huhne | 474 c681 (Link to this contribution) I agree with my hon. Friend's point. I reiterate that the Chilcot report pointed out various option...
Viscount Hailsham | 474 c681 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has rightly referred to intercept evidence being available for use, for example w...
Chris Huhne | 474 c680 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Lady for making that point and giving us a timely reminder of what can hap...
Diane Abbott | 474 c680 (Link to this contribution) Those of us who were in Parliament in the 1990s were asked to vote year after year on the prevention...
Chris Huhne | 474 c680-1 (Link to this contribution) The hon. and learned Gentleman is far more versed in these matters than I am, and I would not like t...
Lord Garnier | 474 c680 (Link to this contribution) Further to the point made by the hon. Member for Hackney, North and Stoke Newington (Ms Abbott), wha...
Chris Huhne | 474 c678 (Link to this contribution) I do not know what goes on inside the minds of Government Front-Bench Members; as the hon. Gentleman...
Chris Huhne | 474 c679-80 (Link to this contribution) I was merely referring to the traditional period of one day, and I shall now continue that point by ...
William Cash | 474 c679 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman mentioned the crucial question of habeas corpus. Is he implying that the Bill's p...
Chris Huhne | 474 c678 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. As I was saying, if the Government really believe that the point abou...
Pete Wishart | 474 c678 (Link to this contribution) Why does the hon. Gentleman believe that the Government have this obsession with 42 days? Does he, l...
Chris Huhne | 474 c677-8 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman well knows that, sadly, my party is not yet in a position to carry the House on i...
Speaker | 474 c678 (Link to this contribution) Order. We cannot have sedentary interventions from either the Front Benches or the Back Benches. If ...
William Cash | 474 c676 (Link to this contribution) On the question of tooth-and-nail opposition, will one of the Liberal amendments be to reduce the nu...
Chris Huhne | 474 c676 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. and learned Gentleman reinforces my point. Frankly, this part of the Bill is an outra...
Viscount Hailsham | 474 c676 (Link to this contribution) I support the hon. Gentleman's point. The Bill confers on the Secretary of State the power not only ...
Chris Huhne | 474 c675-6 (Link to this contribution) I am pleased to follow the hon. Member for Foyle (Mark Durkan), who has, I think, injected an import...
Mark Durkan | 474 c675 (Link to this contribution) Large parts of this Bill are worse, but other aspects of Northern Ireland legislation were worse sti...
John Heppell | 474 c690 (Link to this contribution) No, I will not give way any more, as I do not have time. What I do see is a willingness to look at ...
Diane Abbott | 474 c689 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend. I was surprised at his dismissive reference to Liberty. Is he aware...
John Heppell | 474 c689 (Link to this contribution) I see that my hon. Friend is getting itchy. I give way to her.
Dominic Grieve | 474 c690 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman says that everyone in the House has settled views, but it has been said again and...
John Heppell | 474 c689-90 (Link to this contribution) I am glad that someone is better read than I am. The bottom line is that those organisations exist t...
Graham Stuart | 474 c690 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
John Heppell | 474 c690 (Link to this contribution) I do not think that that is so. I can see the difference between the positions adopted by the Home S...
Viscount Hailsham | 474 c688 (Link to this contribution) I do not think that I would go as far as that. I am not sure that I could agree with that propositio...
John Heppell | 474 c688-9 (Link to this contribution) I have been a little disappointed with the debate so far, although my right hon. Friend the Member f...
Keith Vaz | 474 c684-5 (Link to this contribution) Scotland has its own Committee structure and its own Ministers, so we did not seek evidence from tho...
Alistair Carmichael | 474 c684 (Link to this contribution) Given that the Bill has UK-wide application, did the right hon. Gentleman consider requesting eviden...
Keith Vaz | 474 c683-4 (Link to this contribution) The Home Secretary, the shadow Home Secretary and the hon. Member for Eastleigh (Chris Huhne) have r...
Chris Huhne | 474 c681-3 (Link to this contribution) I am open to the possibility—I am sure the right hon. and learned Gentleman has thought this through...
Lord Garnier | 474 c687 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. and learned Friend has experience as a Minister and as a senior member of the Bar. Fro...
Viscount Hailsham | 474 c686-7 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to follow the right hon. Member for Leicester, East (Keith Vaz). He is entirely rig...
Diane Abbott | 474 c685 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend accept that, contrary to the suggestion that we sometimes hear from the Tr...
David Davis | 474 c665 (Link to this contribution) Of course I will, Madam Deputy Speaker. The head of MI5 has not even mentioned pre-charge detention...
Lord Field of Birkenhead | 474 c666 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman has cited a whole collection of people who, thank God, have not been affect...
David Davis | 474 c666 (Link to this contribution) The first thing I would say to his constituent—everybody will have enormous sympathy with somebody i...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 474 c665 (Link to this contribution) Does the right hon. Gentleman accept that I actually cited the most senior counter-terrorism police ...
David Davis | 474 c665-6 (Link to this contribution) The Home Secretary cited Ken Jones, the ACPO chief, at one point. I remember that when he first rais...
David Davis | 474 c667 (Link to this contribution) Whether the right hon. Gentleman likes it or not, I am going to answer the question. He objected to ...
Lord Field of Birkenhead | 474 c666 (Link to this contribution) The crucial thing that we are being asked to do is not to exchange names; the electorate is looking ...
David Davis | 474 c666 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman is exactly right. We will be judged on our judgments—the judgment that we b...
David Davis | 474 c662 (Link to this contribution) Where possible, the Conservative party will always strive for consensus on security matters. In this...
Viscount Hailsham | 474 c662-3 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend is being too generous to the Home Secretary. Clause 64 allows the appointment o...
David Davis | 474 c663 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. and learned Friend has accused me of something that I have never been accused of befor...
Lord Bellingham | 474 c663 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend share my concern that bereaved families and their legal representatives co...
David Davis | 474 c663-4 (Link to this contribution) I entirely agree with my hon. Friend. That is one route through the issue. The purpose of an inquest...
Lord Davies of Stamford | 474 c664 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
David Davis | 474 c664 (Link to this contribution) I give way to my honourable namesake.
Lord Davies of Stamford | 474 c664-5 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for giving way. What would happen if—it is not an overwhel...
David Davis | 474 c665 (Link to this contribution) In a minute, I shall come to exactly the hon. Gentleman's case and work through it for him; he is ge...
Speaker | 474 c665 (Link to this contribution) Order. May I remind the right hon. Gentleman to use the usual forms of address when referring to oth...
David Davis | 474 c668 (Link to this contribution) And the Americans take the view that they need 48 hours to deal with that, not 28 days—let us be cle...
Robert Marshall-Andrews | 474 c669 (Link to this contribution) Before the right hon. Gentleman leaves alternative periods of imprisonment, I remind him that he men...
Rob Marris | 474 c668 (Link to this contribution) There were three simultaneous 9/11 attacks—two on the World Trade Centre and one on the Pentagon.
David Davis | 474 c670 (Link to this contribution) I will give way to the hon. Gentleman now. I beg his pardon for missing him earlier.
David Burrowes | 474 c670 (Link to this contribution) On tough talk, as the Government pursue gesture politics through the Bill, in the name of being toug...
David Davis | 474 c669-70 (Link to this contribution) Not at the moment. Lord Condon—another name for the Home Secretary to play with—the former Metropol...
Adrian Bailey | 474 c669 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
David Davis | 474 c669 (Link to this contribution) The answer is, ““Patently not.”” The point of my intervention on the Home Secretary was that, to mak...
David Davis | 474 c667 (Link to this contribution) And I am going to give him the difference between the two. He objected to the word innocent—
Lord Field of Birkenhead | 474 c667 (Link to this contribution) I did not. I said ““not charged””.
David Davis | 474 c667 (Link to this contribution) No, not for the moment. I have to make a little progress. I shall give way shortly. I have one othe...
Adrian Bailey | 474 c667 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
David Davis | 474 c668 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Lady should look again—that is exactly what he said. The simple truth is that a likel...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 474 c667-8 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman is wrong. The threshold test requires reasonable suspicion, and it requires...
Speaker | 474 c667 (Link to this contribution) Order. Sedentary remarks should not be made.
David Davis | 474 c667 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman objected. He wanted to say, ““Not charged””, and the difference is as follo...
Speaker | 474 c667 (Link to this contribution) I understand that people want to put the record straight, but there is a way of doing that.
David Davis | 474 c672 (Link to this contribution) No. The police and prosecutors who protect us are human, like everyone else; they make mistakes, li...
David Davis | 474 c672 (Link to this contribution) No, I did not. The right hon. Lady can check the record, because I have it here. What I am saying is...
Rob Marris | 474 c672 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
Stephen Pound | 474 c674-5 (Link to this contribution) Does not my hon. Friend find it ironic that when the Conservatives took the prevention of terrorism ...
Mark Durkan | 474 c674 (Link to this contribution) I fully accept the hon. and learned Gentleman's point. Parliament will almost be in the position of ...
Dominic Grieve | 474 c674 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman not agree that it is strange that the Government cannot see the distinction ...
Mark Durkan | 474 c673-4 (Link to this contribution) The Bill is called a counter-terrorism Bill, but many of us have fundamental concerns that some of i...
Mark Durkan | 474 c675 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps some people have learned from that experience. I will allow Conservative Members to make it ...
David Davis | 474 c670 (Link to this contribution) That is a foolish question for a variety of reasons. The hon. Gentleman will remember, if he was pay...
George Howarth | 474 c670 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman said that the Contest part of the strategy is not working. How, then, does ...
David Davis | 474 c671 (Link to this contribution) If the right hon. Gentleman had listened carefully, he would know that I said that the ““prevent”” p...
David Davis | 474 c671 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend, who is well informed and has strong and direct constituency interest in the matter, ...
Lord Goodman of Wycombe | 474 c671 (Link to this contribution) Will my right hon. Friend reflect on the fact that the Bill contains nothing about the ““prevent”” s...
David Davis | 474 c671 (Link to this contribution) No, I will not. That issue is important to the Bill, because it sets the context in which it is sup...
Adrian Bailey | 474 c671 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
David Davis | 474 c672 (Link to this contribution) I did not say that he was held in pre-charge detention; what I said was—
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 474 c671-2 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that the right hon. Gentleman will want to correct the record: in the case he is talking a...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 474 c658 (Link to this contribution) I find the distain with which the hon. and learned Member for Beaconsfield (Mr. Grieve) treats this ...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 474 c657 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has considerable expertise in information technology, and she is right of course—not ...
Margaret Moran | 474 c656-7 (Link to this contribution) With reference to the complexity of the technology, does my right hon. Friend not agree that we are ...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 474 c657 (Link to this contribution) I do not know the answer to that question, but I will make sure that the right hon. Gentleman gets a...
David Davis | 474 c657 (Link to this contribution) To deal with this problem, in 2000, a criminal offence of withholding passwords and encryption keys ...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 474 c657-8 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry that I gave way to the right hon. Gentleman again. Terrorist plots in this country now a...
David Davis | 474 c657 (Link to this contribution) I thank the right hon. Lady for giving way a second time. Her argument is that the terrorists are us...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 474 c658 (Link to this contribution) The hon. and learned Gentleman asserts that members of ACPO are opposed to this. On that basis, he r...
Dominic Grieve | 474 c658 (Link to this contribution) The problem with the Home Secretary's utterances is that we have heard all this before. A member of ...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 474 c656 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend makes a point about what I would call a precautionary approach much more colour...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 474 c656 (Link to this contribution) No, not for a moment. There were seven co-conspirators, and during the investigation police carried...
George Howarth | 474 c656 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my right hon. Friend, who is being generous in giving way. A good comparison is tha...
Dominic Grieve | 474 c655 (Link to this contribution) I am referring principally to respectable countries. Will the Home Secretary also accept that whate...
Patrick Mercer | 474 c656 (Link to this contribution) Will the Home Secretary give way?
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 474 c656 (Link to this contribution) I am coming to the point that my right hon. Friend makes. Part of the reason for introducing the leg...
Keith Vaz | 474 c655-6 (Link to this contribution) Although the Select Committee found that there was no evidence for going beyond 28 days, we said tha...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 474 c654 (Link to this contribution) To understand the growth of that challenge, and how the nature and scale of terrorism have changed, ...
John Baron | 474 c654 (Link to this contribution) The Home Secretary will be aware that, although seven different countries and a total of 300 suspect...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 474 c655 (Link to this contribution) The example to which the hon. Gentleman refers involves charges made after the event, but he repeats...
Dominic Grieve | 474 c655 (Link to this contribution) I accept that comparing common-law jurisdictions with non-common-law jurisdictions is not easy, but ...
George Howarth | 474 c654 (Link to this contribution) Will my right hon. Friend give way?
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 474 c654 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend makes the very important point that, in our system, we should want and expect t...
John Baron | 474 c654 (Link to this contribution) Will the Home Secretary give way on that point?
Patrick Mercer | 474 c654 (Link to this contribution) Will the Home Secretary give way?
Speaker | 474 c654 (Link to this contribution) Order. The matter of the charges is clearly a decision for the CPS.
Lord Blunkett | 474 c654 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful for my right hon. Friend's generosity in giving way, and for the way in which she...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 474 c653-4 (Link to this contribution) It is obviously difficult to talk about individual trials, especially ones that are due to start tom...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 474 c653 (Link to this contribution) I want to make a little progress. In much police work, investigation necessarily follows the crime....
Lord Goodman of Wycombe | 474 c653 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to the Home Secretary for giving way. She will know that a major trial in connect...
Hugh Bayley | 474 c653 (Link to this contribution) Will my right hon. Friend give way?
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 474 c653 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend is completely right. The police, like prosecutors, want to bring people to char...
Lord Field of Birkenhead | 474 c652-3 (Link to this contribution) Is not a division clearly appearing in the House, between those who believe that we should remain pa...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 474 c652 (Link to this contribution) The argument that I shall make is about the trend of the complexity of investigations and the fact t...
Chris Huhne | 474 c652 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Home Secretary for finally giving way. She said that she was of the same view a...
Shailesh Vara | 474 c660 (Link to this contribution) Will the Home Secretary give way?
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 474 c660 (Link to this contribution) I will give way again, but I hope that no one will criticise me later for taking a long time.
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 474 c661 (Link to this contribution) For effort, I will give way to the hon. Gentleman.
Alistair Carmichael | 474 c661 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the right hon. Lady for giving way. All those that she has prayed in aid in support...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 474 c661-2 (Link to this contribution) During the course of the Bill's development, there has been considerable discussion with representat...
Shailesh Vara | 474 c661 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Lady has been very generous in giving way. The parliamentary scrutiny to which she re...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 474 c661 (Link to this contribution) I have previously expressed my surprise at the extent to which parliamentarians are willing to call ...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 474 c661 (Link to this contribution) No, I am not giving way to the hon. and learned Gentleman again. In bringing forward these proposal...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 474 c660 (Link to this contribution) Under our proposals, in normal circumstances, no one will be able to be held as a terrorist suspect ...
Patrick Mercer | 474 c658 (Link to this contribution) The Home Secretary is seeing how difficult it is to build consensus. Will she confirm that when givi...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 474 c660 (Link to this contribution) First, I agree with my hon. Friend that I am not as dismissive of the House's ability to play a role...
Speaker | 474 c660 (Link to this contribution) Order. It is obvious that at this moment the Home Secretary is not prepared to give way. I remind ho...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 474 c659-60 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry; perhaps I did not make myself clear enough to my right hon. Friend previously. The answe...
Martin Salter | 474 c660 (Link to this contribution) On that point, critics of the Government have argued that Parliament is incapable of having a meanin...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 474 c659 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman has accepted in his proposition that even if we are talking about a nightma...
Keith Vaz | 474 c659 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Home Secretary for giving way to me a second time. She is absolutely right: we ...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 474 c659 (Link to this contribution) I have had numerous amicable conversations with the shadow Home Secretary. His proposal of using the...
David Davis | 474 c659 (Link to this contribution) I am very happy to speak for myself on this. Let me be crystal clear: there is not one shred of evid...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 474 c651 (Link to this contribution) I shall make a little progress on the issue of pre-charge detention before I give way again. I want...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 474 c651 (Link to this contribution) I give way to my hon. Friend the Member for Walsall, North (Mr. Winnick).
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 474 c651 (Link to this contribution) I am tempted to quote the words of a famous politician, who said that advisers advise, but Ministers...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 474 c652 (Link to this contribution) As I shall say when I make my argument, in my view the maximum time period is not the most important...
Lord Howard of Lympne | 474 c651 (Link to this contribution) On 6 November last, when the Home Secretary was asked by how long the 28-day period should be extend...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 474 c651 (Link to this contribution) We listened to what Parliament said last time and to the results of the consultation and we have com...
David Winnick | 474 c651 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my right hon. Friend, who is being very generous. Is it not the case that if the 90...
Adrian Bailey | 474 c652 (Link to this contribution) Like other hon. Members, I have participated in the police liaison scheme, and 18 months ago I had t...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 474 c648-9 (Link to this contribution) The threshold test is undoubtedly important, and it has been used in terrorist cases. It was, of cou...
Jim Cunningham | 474 c649 (Link to this contribution) Will my right hon. Friend say something to allay the fears of the Muslim community that it might be ...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 474 c649 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an important point. In my opinion, the most dangerous threat to any of our comm...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 474 c649 (Link to this contribution) The DPP has taken the same position that those who saw me in front of the Select Committee on Home A...
Elfyn Llwyd | 474 c649 (Link to this contribution) The Home Secretary rightly said that we owe the police and prosecutors gratitude for bringing these ...
Rob Marris | 474 c650 (Link to this contribution) May I caution my right hon. Friend on consensus-building? It is important and I salute the efforts t...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 474 c649-50 (Link to this contribution) I have taken a flurry of interventions, so I shall make a little more progress and then take some mo...
Chris Mullin | 474 c650 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend has made her case very well in the past few weeks, but is she not faced with th...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 474 c650 (Link to this contribution) I hope that my hon. Friend's side of the pendulum gets a bit more airtime. He rightly says that we h...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 474 c648 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an important point, and in fact elements of the Bill will help to facilitate th...
Claire Curtis-Thomas | 474 c648 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend made a brief reference to increases in the numbers of facilities and individual...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 474 c648 (Link to this contribution) That is, of course, my responsibility as Home Secretary, and our responsibility as a Government—and ...
Bob Spink | 474 c647-8 (Link to this contribution) My constituency in Essex supplies about 6,000 workers to the City of London and other parts of the c...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 474 c647 (Link to this contribution) In response to that intervention, I am about to come on to our response to the serious threat that w...
Simon Burns | 474 c647 (Link to this contribution) The Home Secretary said in her opening comments that the threat to this country is unprecedented, ri...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 474 c647 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time. The primary duty of any Government is to se...
Tony McNulty | 474 c732-3 (Link to this contribution) No, I will not. I have barely 15 minutes to respond to about 20 hon. Members. The hon. Gentleman was...
Keith Vaz | 474 c730 (Link to this contribution) The Committee considered the Civil Contingencies Act, but we felt that it was inappropriate because ...
David Winnick | 474 c709-10 (Link to this contribution) It may have been long, Mr. Deputy Speaker, but I fully agree with every word that my hon. Friend sai...
John Heppell | 474 c689 (Link to this contribution) I was not meaning to be dismissive of Liberty. Both it and Justice protect our human rights, and the...
Keith Vaz | 474 c685-6 (Link to this contribution) I agree with my hon. Friend. She is absolutely right that Liberty has never accepted that there shou...
Lord Garnier | 474 c651 (Link to this contribution) The Home Secretary says that the DPP is a public servant, but to some extent we are all public serva...
David Burrowes | 474 c648 (Link to this contribution) Given that prosecutors can use the lower threshold test of reasonable suspicion to charge a terroris...
Tony McNulty | 474 c732 (Link to this contribution) I will not give way, because the hon. Gentleman was one of those who went on the wrong side of a ser...
Keith Vaz | 474 c729 (Link to this contribution) The hon. and learned Gentleman has misrepresented my views somewhat. I made it clear that the Select...
Lord Garnier | 474 c722-3 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is right to point out that there is a huge difference between the facts and the h...
Ben Wallace | 474 c675 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that, in its severity, the legislation before us today is light years ...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 474 c652 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a very important point. The complexity of the investigations that he identifies...
Adrian Bailey | 474 c670 (Link to this contribution) I thank the right hon. Gentleman for giving way at last. I heard the argument that he presented when...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 474 c655 (Link to this contribution) First, I do not accept that the charge period in France is equivalent to that in the UK. Secondly, t...
Patrick Mercer | 474 c653 (Link to this contribution) Will the Home Secretary give way?
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 474 c650-1 (Link to this contribution) I do not believe that the DPP said at any point that he does not want the powers. He is, of course, ...

Subjects

Disclosure of information
Crime prevention
Criminal investigation
Administration of justice
Detainees
Assets
Crown Prosecution Service
Coroners
Borders
Juries
Immigration controls
Offenders
Police
Powers
Parliamentary procedure
Police interrogation
Media
Minority groups
Sentencing
Terrorism
Security
Travel restrictions
Treasury
Islam

Legislation

Counter-terrorism Bill 2007-08

Link

View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk
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