UK Borders Bill. Report stage. New clause 9 debated and agreed to on question. New clause 10 agreed to. New clause 1 debated and withdrawn. New clause 2 negatived on division (226 to 294). New clause 5 negatived on question. Amendment to clause 31 negatived on division (59 to 466). Third reading debate. Agreed to on question. Bill passed.
UK Borders Bill
Debate on bills on Wednesday, 9 May 2007,
in the House of Commons,
led by Joan Ryan.
The answering
member was Damian Green.
About these Parliamentary proceedings
Reference
460 c191-266Session
2006-07Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamberRelated items
Proceeding contributions
David Kidney | 460 c196 (Link to this contribution)
I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
Joan Ryan | 460 c195-6 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Member for Ashford is right that the European convention on human rights was discussed in r...
Show all contributions (158)
Paul Rowen | 460 c195 (Link to this contribution)
Like the hon. Member for Ashford (Damian Green), I welcome the revised amendments submitted by the M...
Damian Green | 460 c194-5 (Link to this contribution)
I should like to thank the Minister for the kind remarks that she made at the beginning of her speec...
Joan Ryan | 460 c194 (Link to this contribution)
As the hon. Gentleman says, the PACE codes apply to England and Wales. He might know that we are see...
Stewart Hosie | 460 c193-4 (Link to this contribution)
New clause 9, when applied to Scotland, will require a sheriff or a justice of the peace to be invol...
Joan Ryan | 460 c193 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman will be aware, from our debates in Committee, of the role of the inspectorate. He...
Paul Rowen | 460 c193 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the Minister for the safeguards that she has just outlined. What monitoring and rep...
Joan Ryan | 460 c192-3 (Link to this contribution)
That is an important point, and we have taken some considerable time and effort to think through the...
Paul Rowen | 460 c192 (Link to this contribution)
What steps are being taken to ensure that this new power will not be misused, particularly in cases ...
Joan Ryan | 460 c191 (Link to this contribution)
I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
Joan Ryan | 460 c191-2 (Link to this contribution)
I should like to preface my remarks on new clauses 9 and 10 and Government amendments Nos. 23 to 26 ...
Speaker | 460 c191 (Link to this contribution)
With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:
Government new clause 10—Police civilians...
John Hemming | 460 c204 (Link to this contribution)
I refer the hon. Gentleman to the current wording of clause 31. Obviously, some cases are covered th...
Keith Vaz | 460 c205-6 (Link to this contribution)
I wish to speak briefly in support of my amendment No. 2 and of new clause 1, tabled by my hon. Frie...
David TC Davies | 460 c206 (Link to this contribution)
I congratulate the hon. Member for Stafford (Mr. Kidney) on making the case for new clause 1 so well...
Damian Green | 460 c204 (Link to this contribution)
I am not sure that that solves the good point of the hon. Member for Stafford (Mr. Kidney). It might...
David TC Davies | 460 c207 (Link to this contribution)
In a moment—when I have made my point about whether we should be booting out people aged over 18 or ...
John Hemming | 460 c206 (Link to this contribution)
Does the hon. Gentleman not accept that the Home Secretary’s decisions are subject to judicial revie...
David TC Davies | 460 c206-7 (Link to this contribution)
Of course, but the hon. Gentleman will know that it is very difficult to bring a judicial review for...
Speaker | 460 c196-7 (Link to this contribution)
With this it will be convenient to discuss the following amendments:
No. 34, in page 16, line 6 [Cl...
David Kidney | 460 c197-9 (Link to this contribution)
New clause 1 is grouped with a large number of amendments, none of which I tabled, so I shall leave ...
Damian Green | 460 c199-201 (Link to this contribution)
I shall concentrate mainly on the four amendments tabled in my name, but let me first comment on wha...
David TC Davies | 460 c201 (Link to this contribution)
But does my hon. Friend not agree that one down is better than none down at all, and that we are bet...
Damian Green | 460 c201 (Link to this contribution)
It is an unarguable fact that treating one offender properly is better than nobody being treated pro...
Neil Gerrard | 460 c201-2 (Link to this contribution)
I want to comment briefly on the new clause moved by my hon. Friend the Member for Stafford (Mr. Kid...
Stewart Hosie | 460 c202 (Link to this contribution)
The examples given are all very familiar. In some such circumstances, the assailant and the victim a...
John Hemming | 460 c203 (Link to this contribution)
I rise to support amendments Nos. 34 and 35, on which we hope to have an opportunity to vote at a la...
Speaker | 460 c211 (Link to this contribution)
Order. I wonder whether I could ask the Minister to face the microphone? It is difficult for hon. Me...
Liam Byrne | 460 c211 (Link to this contribution)
Thank you for your counsel, Madam Deputy Speaker.
We need to make changes in this area, but our acc...
Paul Rowen | 460 c210 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that intervention. In conclusion, I hope that the Minister will ...
Liam Byrne | 460 c210-1 (Link to this contribution)
I want to put on the record my gratitude to the House for the range of amendments in this group. The...
Paul Rowen | 460 c210 (Link to this contribution)
I can give the hon. Gentleman an example of what the phrase means. Let us say that a child from a wa...
David Heath | 460 c210 (Link to this contribution)
I am most grateful to my hon. Friend for giving way; he is indeed being very generous. The public in...
Damian Green | 460 c209 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman, who is being very generous. He is talking about clarity, so wil...
David Kidney | 460 c211-2 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for all that he has said, including the offer of a meeting, which I ...
Damian Green | 460 c211 (Link to this contribution)
In many cases, deportation happens after an order by a judge. A judge will recommend deportation—tha...
Liam Byrne | 460 c211 (Link to this contribution)
Precisely. That is why, under the 2003 Act, it is possible for victim liaison officers to disclose i...
Keith Vaz | 460 c208 (Link to this contribution)
When such women come to my surgeries and ask me to write to the Home Office for all the information ...
Paul Rowen | 460 c208 (Link to this contribution)
I agree. If new clause 1 and the amendments tabled by the Liberal Democrats were accepted, the victi...
Liam Byrne | 460 c208-9 (Link to this contribution)
The automatic deportation provisions are not simply confined to those who have been given a 12-month...
Paul Rowen | 460 c209 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the Minister for that information. But let us take the example of a child asylum se...
David TC Davies | 460 c207-8 (Link to this contribution)
I thank the hon. Gentleman for that intervention. Although his amendment would make deportation poss...
David TC Davies | 460 c209 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman is being naïve. He talks about research, but nobody is sentenced to prison for 12...
John Hemming | 460 c209 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Member for Monmouth (David T.C. Davies) fails to understand what the Minister said, which i...
Speaker | 460 c209 (Link to this contribution)
Order. If a Member gives way to an intervention, it is usual for him to deal with it before taking a...
Paul Rowen | 460 c209 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful for that guidance, Mr. Deputy Speaker.
The debate clearly illustrates why the clause ...
John Hemming | 460 c215 (Link to this contribution)
Does the Minister accept that as stealing electricity is an offence under the Theft Act 1968, any pe...
David TC Davies | 460 c215 (Link to this contribution)
May I make a helpful suggestion? The Liberal Democrat Members sitting near to me seem to have a fixa...
Liam Byrne | 460 c215 (Link to this contribution)
I will come to the arrangements that we will need to make under section 72 of the Nationality, Immig...
David TC Davies | 460 c216 (Link to this contribution)
I will do it for free.
Liam Byrne | 460 c215-6 (Link to this contribution)
We will find out the answer to that question in the not-too-distant future.
I come now to the amend...
Liam Byrne | 460 c216-7 (Link to this contribution)
The offer has become better still.
Sometimes, legal barriers prevent us from deporting people. The ...
Damian Green | 460 c218 (Link to this contribution)
I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
David Kidney | 460 c217-8 (Link to this contribution)
We have had a good and sometimes lively debate on this group of amendments and on new clause 1. I am...
Liam Byrne | 460 c214-5 (Link to this contribution)
I am glad that the hon. Gentleman had the chance to make that point. I missed him at the beginning o...
Philip Davies | 460 c214 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the Minister. I must apologise to you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and to the House; I ha...
John Hemming | 460 c213-4 (Link to this contribution)
That is not automatic deportation because clause 32 contains a massive number of exceptions. The Hom...
Liam Byrne | 460 c212-3 (Link to this contribution)
We have to try to draw apart two different things. The inquiries that the hon. Gentleman has made ar...
Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 460 c212 (Link to this contribution)
May I ask the Minister a straightforward question? Who will hold the data that he mentions? In Commi...
Liam Byrne | 460 c212 (Link to this contribution)
The answer must be yes, because under the Criminal Justice Act there is provision to disclose inform...
Liam Byrne | 460 c214 (Link to this contribution)
I give way to the hon. Gentleman.
Damian Green | 460 c214 (Link to this contribution)
On a procedural point, just in case the reputation of my hon. Friend the Member for Shipley (Philip ...
Liam Byrne | 460 c214 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his good wishes, but under the arrangements in the Bill, the...
Liam Byrne | 460 c228-9 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to Members for having tabled the new clauses and amendments in this group, so that we ...
Andrew Dismore | 460 c229 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the Government for the very positive response that we received to our report last a...
Paul Beresford | 460 c231-2 (Link to this contribution)
The Minister will be aware that there is growing concern about the very little children, particularl...
Liam Byrne | 460 c230-1 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that intervention, and I shall address that precise matter i...
Liam Byrne | 460 c232 (Link to this contribution)
I know that the hon. Gentleman has long taken an interest in these matters. We have to try to stop t...
Anthony Steen | 460 c229 (Link to this contribution)
I apologise for not being here to speak in support of my amendment, but I was occupied in two other ...
Liam Byrne | 460 c229 (Link to this contribution)
I am unable to give my hon. Friend reassurance on the timescale this afternoon. I am more than happy...
Anthony Steen | 460 c230 (Link to this contribution)
I was concerned about articles 10 and 13 of the convention, which provide the victim with assistance...
Liam Byrne | 460 c229-30 (Link to this contribution)
I am happy to do that, because I see no collision course, and my staff spent some time on the report...
Damian Green | 460 c219-21 (Link to this contribution)
I wish to speak to three of the four amendments in this group and to support my hon. Friend the Memb...
Anthony Steen | 460 c221 (Link to this contribution)
The House is most grateful to my hon. Friend for his interest in the Bill and the amendments that he...
James Clappison | 460 c227 (Link to this contribution)
I did not intend to speak in this debate, but I feel prompted to do so by the contributions made so ...
Andrew Dismore | 460 c225-7 (Link to this contribution)
I was not planning to speak in the debate, but as the hon. Member for Totnes (Mr. Steen), who tabled...
Paul Rowen | 460 c224-5 (Link to this contribution)
I support new clauses 2 and 12 and amendment No. 1, tabled by me and my hon. Friend the Member for B...
Damian Green | 460 c223-4 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful for all those interventions. The hon. Gentleman’s Committee has done much valuable wor...
Andrew Dismore | 460 c223 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman cited the report of the Joint Committee on Human Rights on the treatment of asylu...
Damian Green | 460 c222-3 (Link to this contribution)
I am indeed aware of that report and my contention is that the Bill may actually make things worse. ...
Anthony Steen | 460 c222 (Link to this contribution)
I thank my hon. Friend for that very comprehensive and informative reply, which I am sure the whole ...
Damian Green | 460 c221-2 (Link to this contribution)
It is up to the Minister to explain the purpose of the consultation. However, my hon. Friend’s under...
William Cash | 460 c244 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend will recall my amendment to the Legislative and Regulatory Reform Bill, which he and ...
Philip Davies | 460 c244 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to my eagle-eyed hon. Friend for noticing that the new clause has a European dimension...
William Cash | 460 c244 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend might be able to help me. His new clause refers to a imposing a"““maximum number of n...
Sally Keeble | 460 c245 (Link to this contribution)
On the issue of leave to remain, will the hon. Gentleman confirm whether he is also referring to peo...
Philip Davies | 460 c245 (Link to this contribution)
My new clause would impose an overall limit for non-EU countries. There is only a certain number tha...
Greg Knight | 460 c245 (Link to this contribution)
Is my hon. Friend arguing for an overall annual limit for non-EU nationals, or is he hoping for a sp...
Philip Davies | 460 c245 (Link to this contribution)
I am not against free trade. I believe in free trade agreements, but not in lots of regulation. I am...
Stewart Hosie | 460 c245 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman might not be aware that Scotland’s population had been falling seriously over man...
Philip Davies | 460 c244 (Link to this contribution)
As my hon. Friend knows, I enthusiastically supported his excellent amendment to the Bill. Had it no...
David TC Davies | 460 c242 (Link to this contribution)
Does my hon. Friend think it interesting that, from a religious perspective, many Muslim countries a...
Liam Byrne | 460 c242 (Link to this contribution)
In all the debates that I have heard on the Floor of the House and in Committee, I have yet to hear ...
Philip Davies | 460 c242 (Link to this contribution)
As ever, my hon. Friend makes a valid point. My new clause does not specify—nor would I want it to—t...
Philip Davies | 460 c243 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that intervention. In some respects, he makes my point for m...
Liam Byrne | 460 c243 (Link to this contribution)
I am still slightly bamboozled about which bit of red tape the hon. Gentleman is referring to. Is it...
Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown | 460 c243 (Link to this contribution)
Surely the Minister was not suggesting that the hon. Gentleman was attacking immigration officers fo...
Philip Davies | 460 c242-3 (Link to this contribution)
I am afraid that the Minister’s indignation is unjustified. No one is saying that immigration office...
John Hemming | 460 c243 (Link to this contribution)
I am slightly mystified by the hon. Gentleman’s speech. I have found, through speaking to veil-weari...
Philip Davies | 460 c243 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman is entirely right. My new clause aims to help immigration officers so that they d...
Damian Green | 460 c235-6 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful for that. Ambition for accuracy is a good thing in Ministers. The Minister’s central p...
Liam Byrne | 460 c235 (Link to this contribution)
That is merely down to an ambition for accuracy, rather than anything ominous.
Philip Davies | 460 c241 (Link to this contribution)
I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
Speaker | 460 c236-7 (Link to this contribution)
I ask the Serjeant at Arms to investigate the delay in the Aye Lobby.
The House having divided: Aye...
Damian Green | 460 c236 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend is exactly right. One of the things that the Government have failed to do is make our...
Anthony Steen | 460 c236 (Link to this contribution)
Is not my hon. Friend’s concern—indeed, the Opposition’s concern—about the fact that many thousands ...
Philip Davies | 460 c242 (Link to this contribution)
Until the police finally trace those people, track them down, catch them and bring them to justice, ...
Stephen Pound | 460 c242 (Link to this contribution)
I am following the hon. Gentleman’s argument with great interest, but I remind the House that he has...
Philip Davies | 460 c241 (Link to this contribution)
New clause 5 would require an immigration officer to ensure that any clothing covering the face or p...
Speaker | 460 c241 (Link to this contribution)
With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:
New clause 6—Limit on immigration—
‘(1) T...
Anthony Steen | 460 c232 (Link to this contribution)
I might be able to be helpful to the Minister, but I need an explanation. The Minister is familiar w...
Speaker | 460 c232 (Link to this contribution)
Order. This is a very lengthy intervention. I think that the Minister can respond.
Paul Rowen | 460 c233-4 (Link to this contribution)
While I understand what the Minister is telling us, he also says that it is not the intention to dep...
Liam Byrne | 460 c232-3 (Link to this contribution)
I would be more than happy to look at those discrepancies and to spend as much time with the hon. Ge...
Paul Rowen | 460 c234 (Link to this contribution)
I am listening carefully to the Minister’s explanation. He cited an example involving the DRC. Given...
Liam Byrne | 460 c234 (Link to this contribution)
Because we will often be making arrangements to send those people home. I simply do not understand h...
Damian Green | 460 c235 (Link to this contribution)
I start my response to this extremely good debate by apologising to my hon. Friend the Member for To...
Liam Byrne | 460 c234-5 (Link to this contribution)
That is absolutely right. I am trying to make the point that the section 11 duty is about not simply...
Stewart Hosie | 460 c264-5 (Link to this contribution)
I was slightly disappointed that no amendments were tabled to address the issue, which we identified...
James Clappison | 460 c265-6 (Link to this contribution)
The right hon. Member for Birkenhead (Mr. Field) did not underestimate the amount of public disquiet...
William Cash | 460 c263 (Link to this contribution)
The Minister shakes his head, but we will no doubt return to the matter at some future date.
The bo...
Tony Wright | 460 c263-4 (Link to this contribution)
I will be extremely brief. Many of us have thought for a long time that we should find a way to have...
Neil Gerrard | 460 c262 (Link to this contribution)
It is a relatively rare experience for a suggestion that I make on a Home Office Bill to be taken up...
William Cash | 460 c262-3 (Link to this contribution)
I shall be brief. I listened to the Minister’s comments with interest. In a nutshell, he said, ““So ...
Liam Byrne | 460 c263 (Link to this contribution)
indicated dissent.
William Cash | 460 c258 (Link to this contribution)
I am not trying to tempt my hon. Friend into agreeing with me on the Floor of the House—I am not try...
Damian Green | 460 c258-60 (Link to this contribution)
It is clear that there are problems with the dispensation for deportation. Given what has happened i...
Lord Field of Birkenhead | 460 c260 (Link to this contribution)
Tomorrow we reach the end of the beginning of the long goodbye to a Labour Prime Minister who has be...
Paul Rowen | 460 c260-2 (Link to this contribution)
I echo the sentiments of previous speakers. First, I thank the members of staff who worked on the Pu...
Liam Byrne | 460 c249-50 (Link to this contribution)
I do not think that I described the issue of EU immigration as a problem, because it has proved to b...
Liam Byrne | 460 c255-7 (Link to this contribution)
I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time.
Before I come to my substantive remarks, I...
Damian Green | 460 c257-8 (Link to this contribution)
I start by echoing the thanks that the Minister for Immigration, Citizenship and Nationality express...
Liam Byrne | 460 c249 (Link to this contribution)
I sense that the hon. Gentleman wishes to say something.
Damian Green | 460 c249 (Link to this contribution)
The suggestion that my right hon. Friend the Member for Haltemprice and Howden (David Davis) talked ...
Liam Byrne | 460 c248-9 (Link to this contribution)
The answer is simple: they are escorted into a room and an immigration officer will take any step th...
Liam Byrne | 460 c247 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving way to me again as I want to press an important point...
Philip Davies | 460 c247 (Link to this contribution)
The Minister is absolutely right, which is one of the reasons why I want Britain to regain control o...
Liam Byrne | 460 c248 (Link to this contribution)
This has been an extraordinary debate, and a nice way to complete—I fear—Report.
Some of the interv...
Greg Knight | 460 c248 (Link to this contribution)
Although it is all very interesting hearing the Minister speculate about what my party’s policy migh...
James Clappison | 460 c247 (Link to this contribution)
Does not the Minister’s point cut both ways? Since 1997, there has in fact been a substantial increa...
Philip Davies | 460 c248 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend is absolutely right and I pay tribute to all his work on the issue, highlighting the ...
Philip Davies | 460 c246 (Link to this contribution)
I have the advantage of not having to speak from the Front Bench. As I said earlier, I would very mu...
Greg Knight | 460 c246 (Link to this contribution)
Does my hon. Friend accept that finding the money would not require such drastic action as leaving t...
Philip Davies | 460 c247 (Link to this contribution)
As ever, my right hon. Friend is right. According to a survey conducted by the TaxPayers’ Alliance, ...
Stephen Pound | 460 c247 (Link to this contribution)
The interest shown in this debate may be a reflection of the seriousness of the subject that the hon...
Philip Davies | 460 c245 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the hon. Lady for that point. I would not wish to deny universities the income that...
Philip Davies | 460 c245-6 (Link to this contribution)
I have limited time left and I still wish to refer to two new clauses. I have tried to be as generou...
Liam Byrne | 460 c246 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving way. He is being extremely generous with his time.
A...
John Hemming | 460 c204 (Link to this contribution)
I accept that our suggestion only partially addresses that, in that the victim will be involved in t...
David TC Davies | 460 c203-4 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman must be aware that nobody has been sentenced to more than 12 months in prison for...
John Hemming | 460 c207 (Link to this contribution)
Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
John Hemming | 460 c207 (Link to this contribution)
Does the hon. Gentleman not accept that our amendment would enable a persistent pickpocket to be put...
Neil Gerrard | 460 c202-3 (Link to this contribution)
That is a common scenario, but I can think of situations in which it would be difficult to give out ...
Speaker | 460 c218-9 (Link to this contribution)
With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:
New clause 12—Children: exemption from re...
Philip Davies | 460 c244 (Link to this contribution)
The Minister referred to the word ““may””. My new clause uses the word ““must””. There is a distinct...
Philip Davies | 460 c247 (Link to this contribution)
I am, as ever, grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his contribution to the debate. The new clause sta...
Paul Rowen | 460 c208 (Link to this contribution)
I hope that the Minister will accept new clause 1 and amendments Nos. 34, 35 and 2. We are having th...
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