Haulage Permits and Trailer Registration Bill [HL]

My Lords, you will have to bear with me; it is a while since I have had to do this.

I welco...

My Lords, I signed Amendment 1 because it drew attention to the fact that, yet again, we have an ...

My Lords, I support the noble Lord and the noble Baroness in their amendment. Noble Lords will ha...

My Lords, I, too, support all the amendments in the group, and am grateful for the kind words sai...

My Lords, I support Amendments 6 and 11 in this group in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Tunnicl...

Can I clarify that? Having used the term “harsh”, I then used the precise words that are in the r...

I thank the noble Baroness. Our report does say:

“The Bill is wholly skeletal, more of a mi...

My Lords, regarding Amendment 1 in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Bassam, I do not think we sho...

I understand the noble Earl’s comment in suggesting that Amendment 7 may not be a good thing to p...

I assure the Committee that I will not be tabling amendments but I was alarmed by some of the his...

My Lords, I might be the only person in the Room who has run on one of these permits, which was s...

I do not doubt the situation outlined by my noble friend, but will it not be to the advantage of ...

I do not know. That may well be, but I want a straightforward system. I want the number of permit...

My Lords, I declare an interest as a member of the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committ...

I never doubted for a moment, knowing the noble Lord as long as I have, that if it came to a choi...

I pass swiftly on from the observation of the noble Lord, Lord Snape, but I am sad that I am not ...

Supposing that the Government lay some negative instruments to deal with the outcome of the negot...

My Lords, I want to correct the record on something. I said that we ran on quota permits but we r...

My Lords, I did not read Hansard for last night’s debate; I was there. There is no doubt about th...

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords for their contributions. The proposed amendments would enshrine...

Will the Minister pause for a moment? The noble Earl, Lord Attlee, said that Amendment 1 would se...

My Lords, the answer to the noble Lord’s question is that I imagine that the noble Lord, Lord Pan...

I am not here to listen to the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, in his absence. I am keen to hear the Mi...

I will try my best, although I may not be as clear as the noble Lord, Lord Pannick. As I said, th...

I would like to press the question of how these will be allocated. Clause 2(2) says:

“The m...

I understand the noble Lord’s concern. Later, we will discuss Amendment 8, tabled by the noble Lo...

Do I understand the noble Baroness right? Is she seeking to incorporate the ECMT scheme within th...

No, not exactly. If the outcome of the negotiations is a permit-based system, whether unlimited o...

Let us take the Mont Blanc or the Brenner Pass. A truck turns up with a permit which is handed ov...

I understand the noble Lord’s point. Sadly, I cannot speak for what will happen in the EU until w...

On the issue of fraud, I have come across people involved in the delivery of trucks. There appear...

Absolutely. I agree with the noble Lord that that has happened in the past. We are working with t...

Can I ask another question? I am sorry to keep coming back, but I will try to get all my question...

I am afraid that until we know the exact system of the permits, we will not be able to give the n...

My Lords, it is the tradition in Grand Committee to agree to withdraw amendments, and I shall sho...

Moved by

Lord Berkeley

2: Clause 1, page 2, leave out lines 1 and 2

My Lords, Amendments 2, 4 and 5 in my name come from a question I have about Clause 1: why do dri...

My Lords, Amendment 3 in my name also deals with Northern Ireland. It is a probing amendment, see...

My Lords, like my noble friend Lord Berkeley, I am confused about the continual references to Nor...

My Lords, in speaking to the amendments in this group, I admit that to a fair degree I am not sur...

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, and the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, for tabl...

Just to clarify, if the agreement reached with either the EU or the Government in Ireland was suc...

The clause as drafted ensures that there has to be a direct agreement between the UK Government a...

Does not the question of requiring the Government of Ireland to consent to the use of permits app...

The permits would need to be recognised by the EU to be used. As I said, this is an extra clause ...

Picking up on my noble friend Lord Berkeley’s point, does that mean that there has already been s...

As noble Lords will be aware, there have been many conversations between the EU and the UK on Nor...

Would that permit be worded in exactly the same way if the journey originates in Northern Ireland...

We expect that the permits would be the same; it is just that the agreement on how the permit sys...

Would a company based in Ireland but travelling through the UK require a permit?

If its journey would then go on to the European Union, yes, it would. However, if it was going ju...

I am sorry about this but on the permits from within Ireland that means a company based in Dublin...

Before the Minister responds, I will widen the question a little. My noble friend mentioned the e...

The noble Lord is correct. We will move on to discuss cabotage, which is an incredibly important ...

I am grateful to the Minister for some pretty long and detailed explanations. I can see the polit...

Moved by

Lord Tunnicliffe

8: Clause 2, page 2, line 43, leave out subsection (2)

My Lords, I move Amendment 8 simply because I believe two things. First, we cannot contemplate a ...

My Lords, I support the initial comments of the noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe. It would be a disas...

My Lords, I support my noble friend Lord Tunnicliffe on this. Pretty much every year, I try to ge...

My Lords, “first come, first served” implies immediately a limited number of permits, a shortage ...

In her reply, will the Minister clarify exactly what these permits will be? The background briefi...

My Lords, I thank noble Lords again for their contributions to this debate. I assure noble Lords ...

Why does that sentence have to be in the Bill?

I was coming on to that. It might be appropriate and fairer to combine a number of criteria and a...

I am sorry. The transmission on the audio equipment was very bad when you were answering the ques...

As I said, we may use that system for current non-EU agreements and agreements with third countri...

That did not answer my question.

I am sorry. If we are in one of those desperate situations where there is a shortage of permits c...

Before the Minister answers, can I ask her to take this away and discuss it in the department? I ...

I absolutely agree that we will need to put criteria in place in the unfortunate situation of the...

The thing about regulations is that they are unamendable. You either buy the package or you rejec...

Can I add to that intervention? I can give the Minister another criterion. What about regional co...

The reason we put these two methods in the Bill and left other criteria and approaches for the re...

I am grateful to the Minister. While she is doing that, could she come up with some precedents wh...

I certainly will. As I said, we currently use it in certain non-EU agreements, but this is obviou...

When my noble friend takes it away, can she also have a look at why we do not simply auction the ...

The noble Earl would prefer to see a lorry load of caviar coming in rather than basic food.

I made it quite clear that I do not think we should go anywhere close to being short on permits. ...

Currently, the scoping document does not include a provision to auction. That is a new one on me,...

My Lords, if the Minister comes back with an agreement where this subsection is needed, she will ...

Moved by

Lord Berkeley

9: Clause 2, page 3, line 10, at end insert—

“(3A) Befor...

My Lords, I will also speak to Amendment 14B in my name.

Amendment 9 is quite simple. It wo...

My Lords, I have a number of amendments in this group. These amendments have been laid to ensure ...

My Lords, I want to concentrate on Amendment 14, which refers to cost. I will refer to documents ...

My Lords, I rise to speak specifically to Amendment 12, to which I added my name, but also to the...

My Lords, I see merit in some of the amendments. Clearly, we need to know the outcome of the nego...

I am not sure that is the case. If you are required to give your load to someone else, because yo...

I agree with the noble Lord that the Government will have to negotiate the UK’s position effectiv...

I wonder whether I can speak again.

It is Committee.

I have just seen something in a non-quota document which might be of interest to Ministers. It is...

Of course, the noble Lord is thinking about a complex system. One might need a permit just to run...

My Lords, this is the reports group of amendments; various reports are suggested. We have two ame...

My Lords, these amendments set out requirements to report on a range of matters related to road h...

I thank the Minister for her explanation. To be clear, if each member state is to be allocating p...

I am afraid that the answer to that is that it is all subject to the negotiations. The noble Lord...

It is very important that we do not have to negotiate bilaterally because we could be held to ran...

The noble Lord is quite right. We think it is best to negotiate this as an EU-wide agreement. Bil...

Is there a precedent in the negotiations with Ukraine, or another country outside the EU? Does Uk...

Our current agreement with Ukraine is negotiated through the EU. I believe that Ukraine has an un...

Surely, the position is that if you are carrying your own goods it will come under one quota syst...

I agree, as I do with the noble Lord’s point on using tonnage within the negotiations, which I wi...

I am concerned about horseracing. As the Minister will know, horses travel from Ireland to Englan...

This came up at Second Reading, and we have consulted extensively with the horseracing industry t...

Before we leave that, I think the Minister is arguing—obviously, I will have to read the record a...

I will have to get back to the noble Lord on that in writing, but I will certainly do so before R...

I am sorry to keep getting up, but it is not just about your own goods. Under the arrangements th...

The noble Lord makes a valid point. I will have to go back and look at that in detail and come ba...

I am grateful to the Minister. She has been very patient with the questions from me and other nob...

My Lords, this clause refers to the payment of fees for the permits that we have been talking abo...

My Lords, the noble Baroness raised some interesting issues, some of which I touched on earlier. ...

The DVSA.

Acronyms sometimes get the better of me. So, what will it look like? How will it feel? How will i...

My Lords, I want to ask a very simple question, which is slightly tangential to the amendment, ab...

The noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, yet again makes an interesting and important point about f...

My Lords, the idea is that a lot of foreign trucks are going to be inspected. It does not happen ...

My Lords, this clause creates fee-charging powers for administering a permit scheme, which, under...

Can the Minister clarify something? In their examples of existing permits where there are bilater...

I am flying blind now—I should really know the answer to this question. When a British haulier tr...

I thank the noble Lord for that intervention. UK hauliers will pay a charge on a toll road in Fra...

If a truck has to be checked statically in a car park somewhere, that will be quite expensive. Th...

What about the HGV levy system and the technology behind it? It uses ANPR to enforce it, so I sho...

The noble Lord and my noble friend make important points. Of course, we want to use IT systems wh...

That is very interesting. I thought the permit would be allocated to a truck. If it is not,