UK Parliament / Open data

Sanctions and Anti-Money Laundering Bill [HL]

Lords committee stage first day. Clauses 1 to 16 agreed to. Schedule 1 agreed to.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

787 cc106-166 

Session

2017-19

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber
Sanctions and Anti-money Laundering Bill (HL) 2017-19
Wednesday, 18 October 2017
Bills
House of Lords
Sanctions and Anti-Money Laundering Bill [HL]. Constitution Committee (HL) eighth report.
Wednesday, 15 November 2017
Parliamentary committees
House of Lords
Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee seventh report.
Wednesday, 15 November 2017
Parliamentary committees
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Lord Judge | 787 c106 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Judge

1: Clause 1, page 1, line 8, leave out “appropriate” and insert “...

Lord Judge | 787 cc106-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, and I are bringing forward Amendments 1 and 23 in relatio...


Show all contributions (122)
Lord Pannick | 787 cc108-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I want to add some footnotes to the powerful speech of the noble and learned Lord, Lord...

Baroness Northover | 787 cc109-110 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I too will speak to Amendments 1, 23 and 1A, which is in my name and that of my noble f...

Lord Lennie | 787 cc110-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I say for the record and from the outset, and for the avoidance of any doubt in the min...

Lord Faulks | 787 c111 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Lennie, was very quick off the mark: the noble Lord, Lord McNally,...

Lord McNally | 787 cc111-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I agree that the noble Lord, Lord Lennie, was a bit quick off the mark. Just have a gla...

Lord Brown of Eaton-under-Heywood | 787 c112 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I had been waiting for the noble Lord, Lord McNally, to speak, so have come in rather l...

Baroness Sheehan | 787 c112 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, my name is attached to Amendment 1A. I wish to reinforce what has been said by my noble...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 787 cc112-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, first, I thank all noble Lords who have spoken in the debate. A small point was made ab...

Baroness Kramer | 787 c114 (Link to this contribution)

Perhaps I may ask the Minister a question to address a lack of clarity. A moment ago, he basicall...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 787 c114 (Link to this contribution)

As the noble Baroness will know, I have stated the position as it is. Of course it is within the ...

Baroness Kramer | 787 c115 (Link to this contribution)

Can I just confirm that the Government’s response to any such move would be exactly as we saw bef...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 787 c115 (Link to this contribution)

I have stated that the position is as it is now. I know the noble Baroness is seeking to develop ...

Lord Pannick | 787 cc115-6 (Link to this contribution)

I am puzzled by this point. The amendment is concerned, under Clause 1(1), with the circumstances...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 787 cc116-7 (Link to this contribution)

The point I was making was about the implication in the current wording of “appropriate”. This is...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 787 cc117-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am pleased to hear the Minister confirm that this House has the power to vote down st...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 787 c118 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the noble Lord for his late but important contribution. As I said to the noble Baroness, ...

Baroness Kramer | 787 c118 (Link to this contribution)

May I ask for a clarification? The Minister just said the context could not be ignored. Is his co...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 787 c118 (Link to this contribution)

Perhaps I can read into what the noble Baroness seeks on this occasion. This is not an issue abou...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 787 c118 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord said that my intervention was late. This is Committee, and the advantage of Commit...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 787 c118 (Link to this contribution)

As ever, as I said, we live and learn. The noble Lord is of course right in this context: during ...

Lord Judge | 787 cc118-9 (Link to this contribution)

If I am allowed to speak, the reality is that neither House rejects subordinate legislation, even...

Baroness Northover | 787 c119 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Northover

2: Clause 1, page 2, line 7, leave out paragraph (d)

Baroness Northover | 787 cc119-120 (Link to this contribution)

I shall speak also to Amendments 3 and 4 in my name and the other amendments in the group. Amendm...

Baroness Sheehan | 787 cc120-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I rise to speak to Amendment 3 which, as my noble friend Lady Northover said, adds to t...

Lord Faulks | 787 c121 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I regard this amendment with considerable interest and look forward to hearing what the...

Lord Collins of Highbury | 787 cc121-2 (Link to this contribution)

I did not want to tempt myself to get up too soon. I appreciate what the noble Lord has just said...

Lord Judd | 787 c122 (Link to this contribution)

Before my noble friend sits down, does he agree that one of the reasons that British standing in ...

Lord Collins of Highbury | 787 c122 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my noble friend for his intervention and wholeheartedly agree that actions speak louder t...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 787 cc122-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in response to the noble Lord, Lord Collins, I was allowing for any noble Lords to spea...

Baroness Northover | 787 c124 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful to everyone who has contributed to this mini debate. In some ways, I was ...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 787 c124 (Link to this contribution)

I suggest to the noble Baroness that foreign policy and security are the primary responsibility o...

Baroness Northover | 787 c124 (Link to this contribution)

Indeed, security, and not just foreign policy, is a first aim of the whole of government. However...

Lord Collins of Highbury | 787 c124 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Collins of Highbury

8: Clause 1, page 2, line 13, at end insert—

...

Lord Collins of Highbury | 787 c126 (Link to this contribution)

The purpose of this amendment is to reflect on the discussions that we have had with many NGOs ac...

Baroness Northover | 787 c126 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I shall speak to Amendment 9, which stands in my name and that of my noble friend Lady ...

Baroness Sheehan | 787 cc126-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, Amendment 9 is broad enough to cover a range of activities—not just humanitarian assist...

Lord Hylton | 787 c127 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I follow on very much from what the noble Baroness, Lady Sheehan, has just said. I am o...

Lord McNally | 787 cc127-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, en passant, the noble Lord, Lord Hylton, mentioned sanctions against Southern Rhodesia....

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 787 cc128-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have spoken on this group of amendments. The noble Lord, Lo...

Lord Collins of Highbury | 787 c129 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the noble Lord for his response and very much welcome his commitment to meet NGOs so that...

Lord Judge | 787 c129 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Judge

10: Clause 2, page 3, line 11, leave out sub-paragraphs (ii) and ...

Lord Judge | 787 cc129-130 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this amendment and the others in my name in the group arise in the context of the impos...

Lord McNally | 787 c130 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have added my name to these amendments, again with all due humility. I speak not as a...

Lord Judge | 787 c131 (Link to this contribution)

If noble Lords will allow me, I forgot to draw attention to what the Constitution Committee had t...

Baroness Sheehan | 787 c131 (Link to this contribution)

I will speak to Amendments 19, 22 and 30 tabled in my name and that of my noble friend Lady North...

Lord Lennie | 787 c131 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I reassure the noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge, that his grandchildren will probably...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 787 cc131-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, these amendments seek to remove the ability of the Government to create sectoral financ...

Lord Judge | 787 c133 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I shall withdraw the amendment for now; I may come back to it on Report. However, I do ...

Baroness Sheehan | 787 c133 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Sheehan

15: Clause 2, page 3, line 39, at end insert—

“( ) st...

Baroness Sheehan | 787 cc133-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will also speak to Amendments 46 and 78.

There is a lack of specific instructio...

Baroness Northover | 787 c135 (Link to this contribution)

I echo what my noble friend said and I commend the amendments to noble Lords, especially the Mini...

Lord Lennie | 787 c135 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, to echo what has been said, the amendment would strengthen the Minister’s hand to act a...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 787 cc136-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful for noble Lords seeking to strengthen the hand of the Minister at the Dis...

Baroness Sheehan | 787 c137 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister for his reply. He said quite a lot about how we may diverge from the EU, but...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 787 c137 (Link to this contribution)

Am I to take it that the Liberal Benches are now suggesting that that is exactly what the Governm...

Baroness Sheehan | 787 c137 (Link to this contribution)

I am suggesting that the Liberal Benches might wish to take advantage of what the Government have...

Baroness Northover | 787 c137 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Northover

18: Clause 5, page 4, line 43, at end insert “unless they...

Baroness Northover | 787 cc137-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I extremely glad that the Minister wishes to align so closely with the EU. I can think ...

Lord Collins of Highbury | 787 c138 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I do not have much more to add. Obviously, the amendments in this group are probing. I ...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 787 cc138-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for raising this important issue. As we discussed earlier, t...

Lord Hylton | 787 c139 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, following on from what the Minister has just said, perhaps I may be allowed to put a dr...

Baroness Northover | 787 c139 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the noble Lord for his suggestion. This was my thought when reading the Bill —it did not ...

Baroness Northover | 787 c140 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I found reading this Bill enormously instructive. I am no lawyer, but I nevertheless fo...

Baroness Sheehan | 787 c140 (Link to this contribution)

I have only a short sentence to say on this. Clause 8, on “Designated persons” is so widely drawn...

Lord Lennie | 787 cc140-1 (Link to this contribution)

Amendments 33 and 34 concern Clause 10. Where Clause 10(6) says:

“The regulations may make ...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 787 c141 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have spoken in this very brief debate thus far. This clause...

Baroness Northover | 787 c141 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank noble Lords for their contributions. This clause does indeed seem to be challen...

Lord Judge | 787 c142 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Judge

24: Clause 9, page 9, line 32, leave out paragraph (b)

Lord Judge | 787 cc142-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am beginning to have the awful feeling that I am punching jelly. There are so many re...

Lord McNally | 787 c143 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am pleased to see the Chief Whip in his place because we are getting to a point now w...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 787 cc143-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I apologise for intervening in the debate at this late stage. I support what the noble ...

Lord Lennie | 787 c144 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we are having a bit of a Groundhog Day. Following on from the noble and learned Lords, ...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 787 cc144-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank the noble and learned Lord for moving his amendment. I know that he has spoken ...

Lord Patten | 787 c145 (Link to this contribution)

I apologise for not having entered into the debate at an earlier stage but I have been reflecting...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 787 c145 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my noble friend for his intervention. He speaks from experience and, as someone who spent...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 787 c145 (Link to this contribution)

Can the Minister explain what the point is of having sanctions if you do not know who they are ag...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 787 c145 (Link to this contribution)

I suggest to the noble Lord that if there is a person who is not named but is connected to a grou...

Lord Judge | 787 c145 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it really is not beyond the wit of parliamentary draftsmen to produce primary legislati...

Lord Lennie | 787 c147 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Lennie

25: Clause 9, page 9, line 36, leave out “may” and insert “must”...

Lord Lennie | 787 c147 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I shall also speak to Amendment 26. Amendment 25 would replace “may” with “must”, which...

Baroness Northover | 787 c147 (Link to this contribution)

I shall speak to one amendment in this group, Amendment 61. I support the noble Lords, Lord Colli...

Lord Judge | 787 c147 (Link to this contribution)

I shall speak to Amendment 60, which is in this group. It is simply a question of elementary proc...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 787 c148 (Link to this contribution)

What does my noble and learned friend envisage the position to be where the main sort of sanction...

Lord Judge | 787 c148 (Link to this contribution)

Your name goes on the sanctions list before you are told, so as to avoid the dissipation of your ...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 787 cc148-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I agree with the underlying principle of these amendments, which aim to ensure that des...

Lord Lennie | 787 c149 (Link to this contribution)

In the light of those helpful comments, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Lord Judge | 787 c149 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Judge

27: Clause 10, page 10, line 10, after “appropriate” insert “and ...

Lord Judge | 787 c149 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this is just about the use of a word—it always is. It is a word that the Minister was k...

Lord Collins of Highbury | 787 c149 (Link to this contribution)

Maybe I should read out the Constitution Committee’s report, as it might be helpful for the recor...

Baroness Northover | 787 c149 (Link to this contribution)

From these Benches, I concur. I look forward to hearing what the Minister is planning to do in li...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 787 cc149-150 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I agree with the spirit behind the amendments. Targeted sanctions inevitably involve si...

Lord Judge | 787 c150 (Link to this contribution)

On the basis that the Minister is going to reflect, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Baroness Northover | 787 c151 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Northover

37: Clause 12, page 11, line 19, leave out subsection (3)...

Baroness Northover | 787 c151 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this is part of the running theme of the Bill. Once again, we wish to know why Minister...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 787 c151 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I shall speak to both amendments in this group, because although referring to different...

Baroness Northover | 787 c151 (Link to this contribution)

For the moment, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Baroness Northover | 787 c152 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Northover

39: Clause 14, page 12, line 26, at end insert—

“( ...

Baroness Northover | 787 c152 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I shall speak also to Amendments 42 and 50 in my name and that of my noble friend Lady ...

Earl of Dundee | 787 cc152-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support Amendment 42, proposed by the noble Baronesses, Lady Northover and Lady Sheeh...

Lord Collins of Highbury | 787 c153 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support all the amendments in this group and address particularly Amendments 40, 41 a...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 787 cc154-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, Amendment 39 seeks to enable the procedure by which individuals or entities could apply...

Baroness Northover | 787 c156 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank everybody, especially the noble Earl, Lord Dundee, for contributing at this lat...

Baroness Northover | 787 c157 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Northover

43: Clause 15, page 13, line 28, leave out paragraphs (d)...

Baroness Northover | 787 c157 (Link to this contribution)

I shall speak also to Amendment 45 in my name and that of my noble friend Lady Sheehan. I also su...

Lord Lennie | 787 c157 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will speak to Amendment 44 in this group, which seeks to add the words printed in the...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 787 cc157-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the provision of sharing information is vital to ensure that a sanctions regime works i...

Baroness Northover | 787 c159 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister and others. He will know that the deletion of clauses is, as is usual in thi...

Baroness Northover | 787 c160 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Northover

47: Clause 16, page 14, line 12, leave out subsections (3...

Baroness Northover | 787 c160 (Link to this contribution)

I rise to move Amendment 47 and speak to the other relevant ones in the group.

We are seeki...

Lord Haskel | 787 c160 (Link to this contribution)

I have to inform the Committee that if this amendment is agreed, I cannot call Amendment 48 becau...

Lord Judge | 787 cc160-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I rise to address the whole issue of Clause 16 and Amendments 70 and 71, relating to pa...

Lord Norton of Louth | 787 c161 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I shall be brief. I endorse what the noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge, said. Like me,...

Baroness Bowles of Berkhamsted | 787 cc162-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I shall speak to the whole of this group of amendments. I gave notice of my intention t...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 787 cc163-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I emphasise everything that has been said up to now about how unacceptable Clause 16 is...

Lord Collins of Highbury | 787 c164 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I do not want to repeat the comments that have been made. The one thing that I would ma...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 787 cc164-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, obviously I have noted the opinions that have been expressed, as the noble Lord, Lord C...

Baroness Northover | 787 c166 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is this noble Lord doing that.

Baroness Northover | 787 c166 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister will have heard the voices, including those from behind him on his own Benches. The ...

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