UK Parliament / Open data

European Union (Referendum) Bill

Debate on bills on Friday, 29 November 2013, in the House of Commons, led by Douglas Alexander and Lord Wharton of Yarm. The answering members were Lord Hague of Richmond and David Lidington.
Report stage concluded. Third reading agreed to on question and Bill passed.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

571 cc527-584 

Session

2013-14

Legislative stage

Third reading and Report stage

Chamber / Committee

House of Commons chamber
European Union (Referendum) Bill 2013-14
Wednesday, 19 June 2013
Bills
House of Commons
European Union (Referendum) Bill
Friday, 8 November 2013
Parliamentary proceedings
House of Commons
European Union (Referendum) Bill
Friday, 22 November 2013
Parliamentary proceedings
House of Commons

Proceeding contributions

John Bercow | 571 c528 (Link to this contribution)

I ask the Serjeant at Arms to investigate the delay in both the Aye and No Lobbies.

John Bercow | 571 c528 (Link to this contribution)

Will the Serjeant at Arms investigate the delay in the No Lobby, in case, perchance, there is jus...


Show all contributions (169)
John Bercow | 571 c528 (Link to this contribution)

I ask the Serjeant at Arms to investigate the delay in the Aye Lobby.

John Bercow | 571 c528 (Link to this contribution)

Before I call the hon. Member for Ilford South (Mike Gapes) to move formally amendment 51, may I ...

Tom Greatrex | 571 c528 (Link to this contribution)

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. You may be aware that there was extensive media covera...

Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 571 c537 (Link to this contribution)

Order. I must hear whether this is a point of order.

Tom Greatrex | 571 c537 (Link to this contribution)

Have you, Madam Deputy Speaker, been given any indication of whether an Energy Minister—I note th...

Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 571 c537 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman knows that that is not a point of order. He has made his point. If he had wish...

Mike Gapes | 571 c537 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move amendment 52, page 2, line 2, after ‘report’, insert ‘by 1 March 2015’.

Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 571 cc537-8 (Link to this contribution)

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Amendment 53, page 2, line 2, aft...

Mike Gapes | 571 c538 (Link to this contribution)

Let me begin by wishing all my Jewish constituents, and Jewish people all over the world, a happy...

Mike Gapes | 571 cc538-9 (Link to this contribution)

I will in a moment. I should like to make a little progress first.

If the referendum is to ...

Jim Fitzpatrick | 571 c539 (Link to this contribution)

I am glad that my hon. Friend cautioned me against intervening too early, because he has now star...

Mike Gapes | 571 c539 (Link to this contribution)

The answer to those questions is yes, yes, yes and yes. The proposed date of the referendum was n...

Wayne David | 571 c539 (Link to this contribution)

I have an open mind about which date we should opt for, but does my hon. Friend agree that it is ...

Mike Gapes | 571 c539 (Link to this contribution)

I accept my hon. Friend’s wise words. I agree that we need to learn from experience. We need to l...

Cheryl Gillan | 571 c539 (Link to this contribution)

May I correct what was said by the hon. Member for Caerphilly (Wayne David)? There was absolutely...

Mike Gapes | 571 c539 (Link to this contribution)

I assume that I would not be in order if I began to discuss the Welsh referendum in response to t...

Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 571 c539 (Link to this contribution)

Let me say for the avoidance of doubt that the hon. Gentleman would indeed not be in order. I kno...

Mike Gapes | 571 cc539-540 (Link to this contribution)

As you know, Madam Deputy Speaker, I always take your advice, having listened to it very carefull...

Lyn Brown | 571 c540 (Link to this contribution)

I wonder whether my hon. Friend was as surprised as I was that his proposals were not already inc...

Mike Gapes | 571 c540 (Link to this contribution)

I tabled these amendments for many reasons, but the most important reason is that the Bill is ina...

Jim Fitzpatrick | 571 c540 (Link to this contribution)

I saw the promoter of the Bill, the hon. Member for Stockton South (James Wharton), shaking his h...

Mike Gapes | 571 c540 (Link to this contribution)

I have had no direct discussions with the hon. Member for Stockton South (James Wharton), but he ...

Toby Perkins | 571 c540 (Link to this contribution)

Many people might think that the reason the Government are being so unclear is that they do not h...

Mike Gapes | 571 c540 (Link to this contribution)

Apart from the Minister, only two Conservative Members are present, namely the promoter of the Bi...

Mike Gapes | 571 c541 (Link to this contribution)

Says my former Whip! But she is no longer my Whip, so I think—I hope—that I am okay.

Amendm...

Wayne David | 571 c541 (Link to this contribution)

Does my hon. Friend agree that it is important that the Electoral Commission considers not only t...

Mike Gapes | 571 c541 (Link to this contribution)

Absolutely. We are talking about a monumental decision on the future of our country, our internat...

Chris Williamson | 571 c541 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend referred to British nationals living on the continent. Clearly the referendum coul...

Mike Gapes | 571 c542 (Link to this contribution)

I have received several e-mails and letters from British people living in other European Union co...

Lyn Brown | 571 c542 (Link to this contribution)

I am delighted that we are considering amendment 17, as the last time we had a politically genera...

Mike Gapes | 571 cc542-3 (Link to this contribution)

The only noises I have heard from the Government Benches have not been complimentary about any of...

Wayne David | 571 c543 (Link to this contribution)

I am not entirely convinced by my hon. Friend’s argument. Is he saying that Wales, which has a po...

Mike Gapes | 571 c543 (Link to this contribution)

I believe that those issues would then need to come back to be considered by Parliament. I do not...

Jim Fitzpatrick | 571 c543 (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry to say that I am somewhat disappointed by amendment 17. I agree with my hon. Friend th...

Mike Gapes | 571 cc543-4 (Link to this contribution)

I agree that amendment 17 is not perfect. I originally put forward a series of amendments, but th...

Chris Williamson | 571 c544 (Link to this contribution)

Is the thinking behind my hon. Friend’s amendment on the funding of campaigns that there should b...

Mike Gapes | 571 c544 (Link to this contribution)

The amendment is about state funding to ensure that both sides have a minimum level of resources ...

Jim Fitzpatrick | 571 c544 (Link to this contribution)

I do not know whether my hon. Friend the Member for Caerphilly and I will agree about amendment 5...

Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 571 c544 (Link to this contribution)

Order. The hon. Gentleman’s intervention introduces an interesting question that is not absolutel...

Mike Gapes | 571 c545 (Link to this contribution)

Of course, Madam Deputy Speaker. I would simply say that I am in favour of compulsory voting, as ...

Mike Gapes | 571 c545 (Link to this contribution)

I am about to introduce amendment 7, but I thank my hon. Friend for pre-empting me. It deals with...

Jim Fitzpatrick | 571 c545 (Link to this contribution)

I took notice of your previous admonishment, Madam Deputy Speaker, when I mentioned alternative l...

Mike Gapes | 571 c545 (Link to this contribution)

It would be for the Electoral Commission to consider how best the adverts could be paid for. The ...

Adrian Bailey | 571 c545 (Link to this contribution)

I am listening to my hon. Friend’s argument with great interest, but I am little concerned that t...

Mike Gapes | 571 c545 (Link to this contribution)

Absolutely; that is why amendment 7 says that the Electoral Commission should consider the matter...

Mike Gapes | 571 c546 (Link to this contribution)

No, I want to make a bit of progress because I have other amendments that I want to introduce.

Mike Gapes | 571 c546 (Link to this contribution)

All right, I will give way very briefly.

Wayne David | 571 c546 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my hon. Friend for his generosity. I would like clarification. Amendment 7 uses the term ...

Mike Gapes | 571 c546 (Link to this contribution)

As I have said, the Electoral Commission needs to consider all of these aspects carefully. Public...

Wayne David | 571 c546 (Link to this contribution)

I hear what my hon. Friend is saying, but the Government did eventually, under pressure, accept a...

Mike Gapes | 571 cc546-7 (Link to this contribution)

I do not expect the House to vote on all my amendments. There are some amendments that I will not...

Gareth Thomas | 571 c547 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend has not commented on the amendments that have been tabled by those on his Front Be...

Mike Gapes | 571 c547 (Link to this contribution)

Of course I am sympathetic to those amendments. I have not commented on them because they have no...

David Lidington | 571 c547 (Link to this contribution)

This group of amendments deals with various matters pertaining to the detailed conduct of the pro...

David Lidington | 571 c547 (Link to this contribution)

No, I am going to make progress.

Amendments 5 to 7 and 84 propose arrangements for the refe...

David Lidington | 571 c547 (Link to this contribution)

No.

Amendments 16, 64 and 65 propose detailed rules on the conduct of the referendum.

Gareth Thomas | 571 c548 (Link to this contribution)

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. Surely it is a tradition of the House that when one Fr...

Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 571 c548 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman has made his point. He knows that it is not a point on which I should rule fro...

David Lidington | 571 c548 (Link to this contribution)

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

Amendments 16, 64 and 65 propose detailed rules for the co...

Chris Williamson | 571 c548 (Link to this contribution)

I start by congratulating you, Madam Deputy Speaker, on your elevation to the Chair. This is the ...

Wayne David | 571 c548 (Link to this contribution)

Before my hon. Friend starts to develop his arguments, I must say that the significance of what t...

Chris Williamson | 571 c548 (Link to this contribution)

I could not have put it better myself. Indeed, I was going to use the word “shameful” to describe...

Mike Gapes | 571 c549 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my hon. Friend and my hon. Friend the Member for Caerphilly (Wayne David) for th...

Chris Williamson | 571 c549 (Link to this contribution)

Yes, I recall; I was in the Chamber at the time. I withdraw any inadvertent slight against those ...

Jim Fitzpatrick | 571 c549 (Link to this contribution)

I can reassure my hon. Friend; he need not think that some of us do not believe he voted in that ...

Chris Williamson | 571 cc549-550 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my hon. Friend, who I think is also a vegetarian. I was just about to say that m...

Wayne David | 571 c550 (Link to this contribution)

Many hon. Members might think this a significant departure from current practice, and in many way...

Chris Williamson | 571 cc550-1 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my hon. Friend, who sets out the case very effectively. This is not such a huge ...

Wayne David | 571 c551 (Link to this contribution)

In the countries that my hon. Friend has cited, does he agree that there is no obligation for ind...

Chris Williamson | 571 c551 (Link to this contribution)

Absolutely. It would clearly be completely wrong—and, indeed, anti-democratic—to impose any oblig...

Mike Gapes | 571 c551 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is making a very important point about the importance of people voting in election...

Chris Williamson | 571 c551 (Link to this contribution)

Yes, that is a very regrettable fact of life. My hon. Friend’s intervention reinforces the notion...

Lyn Brown | 571 c551 (Link to this contribution)

I find myself in the unique position of disagreeing with my hon. Friend on his amendment. I jib a...

Chris Williamson | 571 cc551-2 (Link to this contribution)

That is certainly a valid point. As I was saying in my opening remarks, I understand that some pe...

Lyn Brown | 571 c552 (Link to this contribution)

I hear what my hon. Friend says, and I have some sympathy with it. Does he not believe, however, ...

Chris Williamson | 571 c552 (Link to this contribution)

I hear what my hon. Friend says. I shall come on in a few moments to comment briefly on the amend...

Jim Fitzpatrick | 571 c552 (Link to this contribution)

Forgive me if I missed this in my hon. Friend’s opening remarks, but did he explain how he arrive...

Chris Williamson | 571 c553 (Link to this contribution)

I accept that £50 is a fairly arbitrary figure. I did not want to make it so high that it was unr...

Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 571 c553 (Link to this contribution)

Order. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman is well aware that he must stick specifically to the que...

Gareth Thomas | 571 c553 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend has said that he will reference the amendments of my hon. Friend the Member for Il...

Chris Williamson | 571 c553 (Link to this contribution)

Indeed I was going to refer to those amendments. Suffice it to say that they are sensible. We nee...

Wayne David | 571 c553 (Link to this contribution)

The figure is very important. There was a not dissimilar debate a little while ago about the leve...

Chris Williamson | 571 c553 (Link to this contribution)

I am not too familiar with the levels of parking fines. I never transgress parking restrictions w...

Lyn Brown | 571 c554 (Link to this contribution)

I was going to take my hon. Friend back to the original premise of his amendment and ask whether ...

Chris Williamson | 571 c554 (Link to this contribution)

I hope it does not. I believe that the force of our argument is so strong that it will convince a...

Lyn Brown | 571 c554 (Link to this contribution)

May I just press my hon. Friend? Can he not see the headline in one of our nationals that says, “...

Chris Williamson | 571 c554 (Link to this contribution)

Indeed. I was just about to correct my hon. Friend’s figure.

Chris Williamson | 571 c554 (Link to this contribution)

I was thinking, “Hold on, did I put another zero in my amendment?” I clearly did not. There is a ...

Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 571 c554 (Link to this contribution)

Order. While I appreciate that the hon. Gentleman would like to consider this penalty issue at so...

Chris Williamson | 571 cc554-5 (Link to this contribution)

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker; I will certainly do that. There was a lot more that I wanted to ...

Martin Horwood | 571 c555 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to speak in this debate at last. I thought for a minute that it was never going ...

Chris Williamson | 571 c555 (Link to this contribution)

Will the hon. Gentleman comment on the scenario I touched on, in which the percentage turnout is ...

Martin Horwood | 571 c555 (Link to this contribution)

The principle of turnout in British elections has always been that whatever the quantum of votes,...

Martin Horwood | 571 c556 (Link to this contribution)

I will give way once to the hon. Gentleman.

Mike Gapes | 571 c556 (Link to this contribution)

I do not intend to intervene again. I just want to point out that in the 1970s this House introdu...

Martin Horwood | 571 c556 (Link to this contribution)

That brings me neatly on to amendment 17, which seeks to impose a threshold of 60%. The suggestio...

Martin Horwood | 571 c556 (Link to this contribution)

No, I will not, I am afraid. We need to make progress on this Bill today.

Martin Horwood | 571 c556 (Link to this contribution)

I will give way once to the hon. Gentleman.

Gareth Thomas | 571 c556 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman and understand his appetite to move on. I hope that when he r...

Martin Horwood | 571 cc556-7 (Link to this contribution)

I am certainly more sympathetic to those amendments. The idea of an audit is, I think, a little s...

Martin Horwood | 571 cc557-8 (Link to this contribution)

I will not give way, because I have given way to the hon. Gentleman already and I think the Bill ...

Jim Fitzpatrick | 571 cc558-9 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to you, Madam Deputy Speaker, for calling me to contribute briefly to the debate. I...

Lord Beamish | 571 c559 (Link to this contribution)

I remember with fondness the time when my hon. Friend was the Friday Whip—he was a very good one....

Jim Fitzpatrick | 571 cc559-560 (Link to this contribution)

It is not for me to respond on behalf of right hon. or hon. Members. When I was a private Member’...

Wayne David | 571 c560 (Link to this contribution)

I shall keep my comments brief, because hon. Members want to make progress and I want the process...

Mike Gapes | 571 c560 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend will be aware that the Government—at least the Conservative party—have already beh...

Wayne David | 571 cc560-1 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes a good point. We touched on that issue in our debate last Friday, and the po...

Adrian Bailey | 571 c561 (Link to this contribution)

I have listened to my hon. Friend’s argument and I think that there is a lot in it. What he perha...

Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 571 c561 (Link to this contribution)

Order. I have allowed a great many interventions during this debate. Everyone who has indicated t...

Wayne David | 571 cc561-2 (Link to this contribution)

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I would simply say that I agree with my hon. Friend’s interventi...

Gareth Thomas | 571 c562 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to follow my hon. Friends the Members for Ilford South (Mike Gapes), for Derby N...

Jim Fitzpatrick | 571 c562 (Link to this contribution)

Does my hon. Friend agree that that is doubly disappointing, given how much respect and high rega...

Gareth Thomas | 571 c562 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend has made his point, and he is accurate.

I wish to speak to amendments 84 and...

Lord Beamish | 571 c562 (Link to this contribution)

Does my hon. Friend agree that the single piece of legislation on Europe that centred powers in B...

Gareth Thomas | 571 c563 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is right. The Conservative party has taken through this House and the other place ...

Lord Beamish | 571 c563 (Link to this contribution)

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. Fridays are for private Members’ business, and that is...

Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 571 c563 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman appreciates that the Chair has power over many things and many people, but the...

Gareth Thomas | 571 cc563-6 (Link to this contribution)

As I was saying, following the amendment tabled by the hon. Member for Windsor, we know that the ...

Nicholas Dakin | 571 c566 (Link to this contribution)

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I am afraid that I must report an error in the number ...

Baroness Primarolo | 571 c566 (Link to this contribution)

Order. I can tell by the reaction that we are all eternally grateful for the correction of the re...

Lord Wharton of Yarm | 571 c571 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time.

We have had extensive debate, disc...

Chi Onwurah | 571 cc571-2 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to be here today discussing the weaknesses and divisions within the Conservative...

Lord Hague of Richmond | 571 cc572-3 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to speak briefly on the Third Reading of this important Bill.

Lord Spellar | 571 c573 (Link to this contribution)

The Foreign Secretary is going back in history a little, so will he remind us when the Conservati...

Lord Hague of Richmond | 571 c573 (Link to this contribution)

The right hon. Gentleman has to go right back to the 1970s, so he cannot accuse me of going back ...

Mike Gapes | 571 c573 (Link to this contribution)

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

Lord Hague of Richmond | 571 c573 (Link to this contribution)

I will not give way to the hon. Member for Ilford South (Mike Gapes), whose views have been deliv...

Wayne David | 571 c573 (Link to this contribution)

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

Lord Hague of Richmond | 571 cc573-4 (Link to this contribution)

No, I am afraid that the hon. Gentleman falls into the same category as the hon. Member for Ilfor...

Lord Hague of Richmond | 571 c574 (Link to this contribution)

I am not giving way.

The question in the referendum is clear.

Lord Hague of Richmond | 571 c574 (Link to this contribution)

I will give way to the Front-Bench Member.

Gareth Thomas | 571 c574 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful.

We repeatedly tried, as did Conservative Back Benchers, to ask the Minister ...

Lord Hague of Richmond | 571 c574 (Link to this contribution)

The Prime Minister’s programme was set out clearly in his speech of 23 January, and his agenda is...

Douglas Alexander | 571 cc574-5 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the former shadow Europe Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for Wolverhampton North East...

Douglas Alexander | 571 c575 (Link to this contribution)

I will make a little progress, and then I will be happy to take some interventions. Let us be cle...

William Cash | 571 c575 (Link to this contribution)

Given the fact that the former Prime Minister Tony Blair promised a referendum on the constitutio...

Douglas Alexander | 571 cc576-7 (Link to this contribution)

I could not have asked for a kinder intervention given that I am keen to talk about the views of ...

Heidi Alexander | 571 c577 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. Friend will know that the CBI estimates that up to 5% of the UK’s total economic ou...

Douglas Alexander | 571 cc577-8 (Link to this contribution)

The answer, I fear, is that the dynamic and driver of the Bill, as evidenced by the conduct of th...

Adrian Bailey | 571 c578 (Link to this contribution)

I cannot support the Bill because, first and foremost, it is a politically driven Bill, adopted b...

Mike Gapes | 571 c578 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend mentioned the Government. There are no Liberal Democrats in the Chamber—that is no...

Adrian Bailey | 571 cc578-9 (Link to this contribution)

I was coming to that point. In all my years in the House, I have never known a private Member’s B...

Wayne David | 571 c579 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes an extremely important point. One thing that is evident from the debate is t...

Adrian Bailey | 571 cc579-580 (Link to this contribution)

I totally agree. British car manufacturing is a success story; 80% of what we make is exported, w...

Wayne David | 571 c580 (Link to this contribution)

I think it is fair to say that we have had an interesting few days. One reason is that the hon. M...

Mike Gapes | 571 c580 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend ought to be fair to the hon. Member for Stockton South (James Wharton)—he has been...

Wayne David | 571 cc580-1 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman has obviously been a very discreet presence; I thank my hon. Friend for that i...

Mike Gapes | 571 cc581-4 (Link to this contribution)

I begin by thanking the hon. Member for Stockton South (James Wharton) for giving us the opportun...

Wayne David | 571 c584 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is making a very important point. Does he agree that it is disgraceful how the Eur...

Mike Gapes | 571 c584 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful for my hon. Friend’s remarks.

In conclusion, I want to get to the heart of th...

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