UK Parliament / Open data

European Union (Referendum) Bill

Debate on bills on Friday, 8 November 2013, in the House of Commons, led by Andrew Rosindell. The answering member was David Lidington.
Motion that the House sit in private. Negatived on division (0 to 290). Report stage. New clause 1 (Gibraltar), debated and agreed to on division (299 to 0). Amendment 68 to clause 1, discussed with New schedules 1 and 2, debated and agreed to. Debate adjourned. Bill to be further considered Friday 22 November.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

570 cc533-607 

Session

2013-14

Legislative stage

Report stage

Chamber / Committee

House of Commons chamber
European Union (Referendum) Bill 2013-14
Wednesday, 19 June 2013
Bills
House of Commons
European Union (Referendum) Bill
Friday, 29 November 2013
Parliamentary proceedings
House of Commons

Proceeding contributions

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 570 c536 (Link to this contribution)

rose—

John Bercow | 570 c536 (Link to this contribution)

We shall shortly begin with new clause 1, but not before I have heard the point of order from Mr ...


Show all contributions (336)
Jacob Rees-Mogg | 570 c536 (Link to this contribution)

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. It is stated clearly in “Erskine May” that the vote must go with...

John Bercow | 570 c536 (Link to this contribution)

I am extremely grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his point of order and I respect the spirit in ...

Chris Williamson | 570 c536 (Link to this contribution)

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I would be grateful for your guidance on whether there is a mode...

John Bercow | 570 c536 (Link to this contribution)

I cannot say I am very grateful for that point of order, for the simple reason that, as the hon. ...

Martin Horwood | 570 c536 (Link to this contribution)

Mr Speaker, your selection of amendments is obviously correct and beyond reproach, but perhaps yo...

John Bercow | 570 c536 (Link to this contribution)

Order. The hon. Gentleman will resume his seat. He has been in the House long enough to know that...

Andrew Rosindell | 570 c537 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

John Bercow | 570 cc537-8 (Link to this contribution)

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Amendment 41, in clause 2, page 1...

Andrew Rosindell | 570 c538 (Link to this contribution)

I am proud to move new clause 1, in the name of my hon. Friend the Member for Stockton South (Jam...

Mike Gapes | 570 c538 (Link to this contribution)

Is it the hon. Gentleman’s opinion that the people living in Gibraltar today are also pleased tha...

Andrew Rosindell | 570 c539 (Link to this contribution)

I was about to come to that very point. It was only a few years ago, in June 2004, that after a v...

Andrew Rosindell | 570 c539 (Link to this contribution)

I will not be giving way.

The vast majority of people in Gibraltar, unlike people in the Un...

Barry Sheerman | 570 cc539-540 (Link to this contribution)

I served on the Committee, and during our proceedings we looked very closely at this matter. I re...

Andrea Leadsom | 570 c540 (Link to this contribution)

Does the hon. Gentleman recognise that that demonstrates the importance that Government Members a...

Barry Sheerman | 570 c540 (Link to this contribution)

No, I am sorry, but I do not. I think the whole question of a referendum is a very important one ...

Gareth Thomas | 570 c540 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend rightly says that Ministers and, indeed, the Bill’s promoter, completely forgot ab...

Barry Sheerman | 570 c540 (Link to this contribution)

I have been in this House long enough to be grateful for small mercies, and we did, after all, ge...

John Bercow | 570 c540 (Link to this contribution)

Order. I do not know why the hon. Gentleman is suggesting that there is anything unusual either a...

Barry Sheerman | 570 cc540-1 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful for that, Mr Speaker.

I will conclude my remarks and hope to be called later ...

John Hemming | 570 c541 (Link to this contribution)

I rise to support new clause 1. The absurd proposal in this group is obviously amendment 43, whic...

Thomas Docherty | 570 c541 (Link to this contribution)

I am most grateful to you, Mr Speaker, for calling me to speak in this debate.

As I am sure...

Gareth Thomas | 570 c541 (Link to this contribution)

As regards new clause 1, does my hon. Friend agree that it would be helpful if the Bill’s promote...

Thomas Docherty | 570 c541 (Link to this contribution)

I fully agree. You will recall, Mr Speaker, that on Wednesday evening we had a debate about the u...

Thomas Docherty | 570 c542 (Link to this contribution)

No? I am sorry about that, because it has been puzzling me.

I am keen on giving the people ...

Martin Horwood | 570 c542 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Dunfermline and West Fife (Thomas Docherty), who i...

Thomas Docherty | 570 c542 (Link to this contribution)

If I may briefly correct the hon. Gentleman on two points, he just referred to Gibraltar as a Cro...

Martin Horwood | 570 c542 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. I was talking about representation and was about to point...

Richard Bacon | 570 c543 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman has said he is not clear where this would leave Gibraltar. Is it not obvious t...

Martin Horwood | 570 c543 (Link to this contribution)

That will probably get the hon. Gentleman “quote of the day” in somebody’s column, but I am not s...

Andrew Rosindell | 570 c543 (Link to this contribution)

I am afraid that the hon. Gentleman is getting this completely back to front. The people of Gibra...

Martin Horwood | 570 c543 (Link to this contribution)

I am afraid that the hon. Gentleman is wrong. Gibraltar is not equivalent to Essex in any respect...

Thomas Docherty | 570 c543 (Link to this contribution)

I am listening attentively to the hon. Gentleman and, as a Scot, I do not quite follow his logic....

Martin Horwood | 570 c544 (Link to this contribution)

I will explain. The situation is different from that in Scotland, because Scotland, for the time ...

Thomas Docherty | 570 c544 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman must have misspoken. I think he just said—perhaps I heard him wrong—that Gibra...

Thomas Docherty | 570 c544 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for endorsing me. I do not think the hon. Gentleman meant to say ...

Martin Horwood | 570 c544 (Link to this contribution)

No, on this occasion I do not think the hon. Gentleman is right. Gibraltar is a UK territory but,...

Thomas Docherty | 570 c544 (Link to this contribution)

I really am disappointed that the hon. Gentleman has not had an opportunity to talk to the many M...

Martin Horwood | 570 c544 (Link to this contribution)

The reason why Gibraltar could decide to join the kingdom of Spain should it ever want to—obvious...

Martin Horwood | 570 c545 (Link to this contribution)

It is a rather semantic point. I feel that we are leading the House down something of an angels-d...

Martin Horwood | 570 c545 (Link to this contribution)

I am reluctant to take another intervention on this point, because the Members behind me will be ...

Huw Irranca-Davies | 570 c545 (Link to this contribution)

My intervention is on a different point. Is not a more powerful argument in support of the new cl...

Martin Horwood | 570 c545 (Link to this contribution)

That was a much more constructive intervention and it was typically well made by the hon. Gentlem...

Thomas Docherty | 570 c545 (Link to this contribution)

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Thomas Docherty | 570 c545 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman has not mentioned the most important benefit of the European Union. We have a ...

Martin Horwood | 570 cc545-6 (Link to this contribution)

I will not rise to that point. It takes us away from the core subject matter of the new clause.

Mike Gapes | 570 c546 (Link to this contribution)

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Is it in order for an hon. Member to refer to amendments that yo...

John Bercow | 570 c546 (Link to this contribution)

The substance of the amendments is a matter for debate. I sincerely hope that the hon. Member for...

Martin Horwood | 570 cc546-7 (Link to this contribution)

Heaven forfend that I should question the selection of amendments once again, having been appropr...

Steve McCabe | 570 c547 (Link to this contribution)

Is the hon. Gentleman as perplexed as I am that the Government can justify reducing the voting ag...

Martin Horwood | 570 c547 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is drawing me into commenting on the Scottish referendum, which is rather dang...

Huw Irranca-Davies | 570 c547 (Link to this contribution)

Amendment 44 does not say that we should extend the vote to 16 to18-year-olds in order that they ...

Martin Horwood | 570 c547 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman again makes a good point. It is the future of those young people that we are d...

Gareth Thomas | 570 c547 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman has understandably focused the majority of his remarks on Gibraltar on the ent...

Martin Horwood | 570 cc547-8 (Link to this contribution)

I have already invited the Minister to comment on the new clause in general. In fact, I should re...

Lord Spellar | 570 c548 (Link to this contribution)

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Is it not the case that anyone speaking from the Dispatch Box on...

John Bercow | 570 c548 (Link to this contribution)

The right hon. Gentleman is correct. That is the situation—a Minister who speaks from the Treasur...

Martin Horwood | 570 c548 (Link to this contribution)

That raises an interesting issue that perhaps the Government—both sides of the coalition—should r...

Mike Gapes | 570 c548 (Link to this contribution)

First, I thank you, Mr Speaker, for selecting a large number of amendments that I tabled and for ...

Lord Beamish | 570 c548 (Link to this contribution)

Does my hon. Friend agree that the Bill also excludes citizens of other EU countries who may have...

Mike Gapes | 570 c549 (Link to this contribution)

That is absolutely correct, and I will address that point as I talk in detail about each of my am...

Thomas Docherty | 570 c549 (Link to this contribution)

I do not fully follow my hon. Friend’s logic; I hope that he will explain it better. We do not al...

Mike Gapes | 570 c549 (Link to this contribution)

I will talk about overseas territories’ relationship with the European Union later. Along with th...

Thomas Docherty | 570 c549 (Link to this contribution)

I wrote to the overseas territories a few months ago to inquire about that point, and I know that...

Mike Gapes | 570 c549 (Link to this contribution)

I am a member of the Foreign Affairs Committee. In the previous Parliament, we carried out a majo...

Huw Irranca-Davies | 570 c549 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my hon. Friend for setting out his lucid argument. Although I support new clause 1 and ma...

Mike Gapes | 570 c550 (Link to this contribution)

I agree, which was why I tabled a series of amendments relating to the overseas territories. We m...

Steve McCabe | 570 c550 (Link to this contribution)

I am curious about what would happen if the people of Gibraltar voted to remain part of the EU, b...

Mike Gapes | 570 c550 (Link to this contribution)

My guess is that if we had left the EU, the rest of the EU would not necessarily regard us as a c...

William Bain | 570 c550 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes an excellent point that applies to other British overseas territories that h...

Lord Beamish | 570 c550 (Link to this contribution)

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I know that we are considering a private Member’s Bill...

Baroness Primarolo | 570 c550 (Link to this contribution)

I say to the hon. Gentleman that it is normal for Ministers to approach the Box, and only Ministe...

Baroness Primarolo | 570 c550 (Link to this contribution)

Order. I know where the hon. Gentleman is now thank you, Ms McCarthy, but I am saying that I did ...

Baroness Primarolo | 570 c551 (Link to this contribution)

Order. There cannot be anything further to that point of order. I have said that Ministers may ap...

Mike Gapes | 570 c551 (Link to this contribution)

I was halfway through giving way, Madam Deputy Speaker. Has my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow...

Mike Gapes | 570 c551 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend has concluded. As an aside, perhaps the solution for the Government would be to ap...

Steve McCabe | 570 c551 (Link to this contribution)

I want to return one last time to the point that my hon. Friend raised about Gibraltar and the si...

Mike Gapes | 570 cc551-2 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Member for Romford (Andrew Rosindell) and I have had many discussions, and we were both ...

Martin Horwood | 570 c552 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman’s interesting point raises an intriguing prospect. If the referendum were to b...

Mike Gapes | 570 c552 (Link to this contribution)

Absolutely. A large number of my constituents come from many parts of the world. There are Britis...

Heidi Alexander | 570 c552 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is making an excellent contribution and referring to matters that relate specifica...

Mike Gapes | 570 c552 (Link to this contribution)

I might be wrong, but I understand that London is the fifth largest French city. We live in a glo...

Lord Beamish | 570 c552 (Link to this contribution)

It is not just London. An individual in Durham who is an American citizen has lived here for 34 y...

Mike Gapes | 570 c553 (Link to this contribution)

I agree with my hon. Friend. There are huge implications for the economy and our people should we...

Huw Irranca-Davies | 570 c553 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend tickled me when he described London as the fifth largest French city—he must not f...

Mike Gapes | 570 c553 (Link to this contribution)

We will discuss the Electoral Commission’s report on the wording of the question when we speak to...

Thomas Docherty | 570 c553 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend misspoke very slightly earlier when he referred to the general election franchise,...

Mike Gapes | 570 cc553-4 (Link to this contribution)

I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend, and that is why I have tabled amendments that would apply...

Lord Hain | 570 c554 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is expertly disentangling all the anomalies and contradictions in the Bill and the...

Mike Gapes | 570 c554 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. There is no logic to the proposal; it is absurd. As I s...

Lord Beamish | 570 c554 (Link to this contribution)

Does my hon. Friend agree that many people will have sold their houses here and retired to Spain,...

Mike Gapes | 570 cc554-5 (Link to this contribution)

That is absolutely true. The Government—[Interruption.] I am sorry; I meant to say the Minister. ...

Steve McCabe | 570 c555 (Link to this contribution)

May I take my hon. Friend back to the point he made about the Members of the other place having t...

Mike Gapes | 570 cc555-6 (Link to this contribution)

It is difficult enough for me to contemplate the implications of rulings from the Chair in this C...

Mike Gapes | 570 c556 (Link to this contribution)

No, I am afraid I want to conclude my remarks, because other Members wish to speak.

The Cro...

David Lidington | 570 cc556-7 (Link to this contribution)

In response to the point from my hon. Friend the Member for Cheltenham (Martin Horwood), I wish t...

Martin Horwood | 570 c557 (Link to this contribution)

Given the point of order raised by the sage and right hon. Member for Warley (Mr Spellar), will t...

David Lidington | 570 c557 (Link to this contribution)

I am speaking as a Minister at the Foreign Office and, as always, as a member of the Conservative...

David Lidington | 570 c557 (Link to this contribution)

I have taken advice on this matter, including legal advice, so that I can be confident of giving ...

David Lidington | 570 c557 (Link to this contribution)

In Committee, I undertook to review this question, in response to points made by the hon. Member ...

Lord Beamish | 570 c557 (Link to this contribution)

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker.

Baroness Primarolo | 570 c557 (Link to this contribution)

It had better be a point of order, Mr Jones.

Lord Beamish | 570 c557 (Link to this contribution)

The convention in the House is that if Members seek to intervene, the speaker usually acknowledge...

Baroness Primarolo | 570 c557 (Link to this contribution)

Mr Jones, you know full well that that is not a point of order. It is entirely up to the Minister...

David Lidington | 570 c557 (Link to this contribution)

Members from all three main parties have made some serious points about Gibraltar.

David Lidington | 570 c558 (Link to this contribution)

I intend to continue with my remarks and respond to the points made about new clause 1 and then t...

Gareth Thomas | 570 c558 (Link to this contribution)

I am following very clearly the Minister’s attempted explanation for why subsections (2) and (3) ...

David Lidington | 570 c558 (Link to this contribution)

No, it is not overkill. This is a sensible piece of legislative drafting designed to put it beyon...

David Lidington | 570 c559 (Link to this contribution)

I am trying to respond to the hon. Gentleman. As I have said, I have reflected carefully on the p...

David Lidington | 570 c559 (Link to this contribution)

No. I have consulted the Chief Minister and have concluded that I should give my support and endo...

David Lidington | 570 c559 (Link to this contribution)

No, I will not.

The hon. Member for Ilford South has tabled many different amendments. He a...

David Lidington | 570 c559 (Link to this contribution)

I am replying to the hon. Member for Ilford South. He proposed amendments that seek to—

Huw Irranca-Davies | 570 c559 (Link to this contribution)

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. From the start of the debate, I have listened intently...

Baroness Primarolo | 570 c559 (Link to this contribution)

I get the gist. It is not a point of order. The Minister has the Floor and is responsible for wha...

David Lidington | 570 c560 (Link to this contribution)

I am responding to the hon. Member for Ilford South. I am sure that the hon. Member for Harrow We...

Mike Gapes | 570 c560 (Link to this contribution)

Given that we are apparently going to use the UK’s general election criteria, why would there be ...

David Lidington | 570 c560 (Link to this contribution)

It is no more or less anomalous than the situation that applies already at our general elections,...

Baroness Primarolo | 570 c560 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister has concluded his remarks.

William Bain | 570 cc560-1 (Link to this contribution)

I rise to support amendment 69. I would also like to comment on other amendments, including those...

Steve McCabe | 570 c561 (Link to this contribution)

I wonder whether my hon. Friend thinks it is also regrettable that we have not been joined this m...

William Bain | 570 c561 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is clairvoyant in picking up that ambience from the Minister for Europe. I hope th...

Huw Irranca-Davies | 570 c561 (Link to this contribution)

I wonder what bearing the fairly recent debate and vote that the House had on prisoners’ entitlem...

William Bain | 570 cc561-2 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend raises an important point. One of the issues that must accompany the referendum de...

Barry Sheerman | 570 c562 (Link to this contribution)

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I have been in the House quite a long time, but I have...

Baroness Primarolo | 570 c562 (Link to this contribution)

That is not a point of order. It is entirely up to Members to indicate when they want to speak. I...

William Bain | 570 c562 (Link to this contribution)

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I hope that the Prime Minister will grace us with his presence l...

Huw Irranca-Davies | 570 c562 (Link to this contribution)

A crucial point is the cost of compensation resulting from prisoners mounting challenges under th...

Baroness Primarolo | 570 c562 (Link to this contribution)

Order. That is quite enough. If the promoter of the Bill wishes to take part in the debate, he wi...

William Bain | 570 c562 (Link to this contribution)

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

I fully support the amendment on votes at 16 tabled by my ...

Barry Sheerman | 570 c562 (Link to this contribution)

Will my hon. Friend give way on that point?

William Bain | 570 c562 (Link to this contribution)

I know that my hon. Friend will have a different view.

Barry Sheerman | 570 c562 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend will remember that, in Committee, I was embarrassed when my name was accidentally ...

William Bain | 570 c562 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend, who has been a Member of the House since 1979, raises his objections with his cus...

Chris Williamson | 570 c563 (Link to this contribution)

Is my hon. Friend aware of the Power Commission, funded by the Joseph Rowntree Foundation, which ...

William Bain | 570 c563 (Link to this contribution)

I entirely agree with my hon. Friend’s point. In this Parliament, I and many of my hon. Friends h...

Lord Beamish | 570 c563 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Member for Romford (Andrew Rosindell) moved the new clause on Gibraltar. Is my hon. Frie...

William Bain | 570 cc563-4 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Member for Romford (Andrew Rosindell) will be accountable for his own statements, but gi...

Meg Hillier | 570 cc564-5 (Link to this contribution)

Amendment 44 deals with the question of giving 16 and 17-year-olds the vote. I am well qualified ...

Seema Malhotra | 570 c565 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is making some powerful arguments, and she will know that I very much support the ...

Meg Hillier | 570 c565 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend’s good contribution included an interesting point about intergenerational accounta...

Barry Sheerman | 570 c565 (Link to this contribution)

Is my hon. Friend aware that this country has been castigated for allowing young people—as young ...

Meg Hillier | 570 c565 (Link to this contribution)

Yet 16-year-olds pay tax and can get married, and 17-year-olds can drive. Young people can join t...

Meg Hillier | 570 c566 (Link to this contribution)

I hear what my hon. Friend suggests, but we could equally look at it as aligning adulthood with t...

Chris Williamson | 570 c566 (Link to this contribution)

Does my hon. Friend agree that if the voting age were reduced, it would act as a spur to the educ...

Meg Hillier | 570 cc566-8 (Link to this contribution)

Yes, I have made that very point. All of us in the Chamber have called the Secretary of State for...

Baroness Primarolo | 570 c567 (Link to this contribution)

Order. The hon. Lady is drifting considerably away from the subject. Occasionally saying, “That i...

Meg Hillier | 570 c567 (Link to this contribution)

As I hinted, Madam Deputy Speaker, I suspected that I would be tempted to drift away. Thank you f...

Gareth Thomas | 570 cc567-9 (Link to this contribution)

It is a genuine pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Hackney South and Shoreditch (Me...

Lord Beamish | 570 c569 (Link to this contribution)

Does my hon. Friend think it strange that the hon. Member for Romford (Andrew Rosindell) moved—be...

Gareth Thomas | 570 c569 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes an interesting point. If he will forgive me, I want to come a little later i...

Mike Gapes | 570 c569 (Link to this contribution)

I am sure that my hon. Friend is aware that, as late as 23 October, the Minister with responsibil...

Gareth Thomas | 570 cc569-570 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes a helpful contribution by acknowledging the further mistake of Foreign Offic...

Mike Gapes | 570 c570 (Link to this contribution)

Given the lack of clarity from the Minister when he referred to the matter earlier, would it not ...

Gareth Thomas | 570 cc570-2 (Link to this contribution)

It is for hon. Members in all parts of the House to make their own judgment on that. Given that t...

Lord Beamish | 570 c572 (Link to this contribution)

I am not sure whether my hon. Friend, who is a London MP, takes The Northern Echo newspaper, but ...

Gareth Thomas | 570 c572 (Link to this contribution)

I apologise to the editor of The Northern Echo because I do not take the paper regularly, althoug...

Lord Beamish | 570 c572 (Link to this contribution)

Does my hon. Friend agree that it is not just Nissan’s investment that will be put at risk, but H...

Gareth Thomas | 570 c572 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes a very good point. It is a tragedy that the hon. Member for Stockton South, ...

Baroness Primarolo | 570 c572 (Link to this contribution)

Order. Obviously, lots of things are said in this Chamber, but I am duty bound to point out that ...

Gareth Thomas | 570 c572 (Link to this contribution)

If the hon. Gentleman does come back soon, I would certainly be willing to accept an intervention...

Chris Williamson | 570 c572 (Link to this contribution)

I note that my hon. Friend does not take The Northern Echo, but does he take the Derby Evening Te...

Baroness Primarolo | 570 c573 (Link to this contribution)

Order. We are talking about the specific amendments, which are about the franchise. I cannot quit...

Gareth Thomas | 570 c573 (Link to this contribution)

I hope to come to the amendments on the possibility of giving 16 and 17-year-olds—some of whom ma...

Seema Malhotra | 570 c573 (Link to this contribution)

I could, of course, introduce the Hounslow Chronicle to the competition, but I will refrain from ...

Gareth Thomas | 570 cc573-4 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes a good point. I will come to the issue of 16 and 17-year-olds shortly.

Huw Irranca-Davies | 570 c575 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes a good point. In fact, in having discussed Crown dependencies, overseas terr...

Gareth Thomas | 570 c575 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes a good point. I hope he will forgive me if I say that I have not looked at t...

Graham P Jones | 570 c575 (Link to this contribution)

Does my hon. Friend not find it rather strange that 16 and 17-year-olds are not being given a vot...

Gareth Thomas | 570 c575 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes a good point and, in a moment, I will come to an even more bizarre twist rel...

Seema Malhotra | 570 c575 (Link to this contribution)

Does my hon. Friend agree that sending a positive message today about votes for 16 and 17-year-ol...

Gareth Thomas | 570 c575 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes a good point. If the Home Secretary were to endorse the idea of 16 and 17-ye...

Barry Sheerman | 570 c575 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is making a good speech, but he knows that I have a long track record of disagreei...

Gareth Thomas | 570 cc575-6 (Link to this contribution)

I would not want to upset my hon. Friend further, but he makes a good point. I will come to the S...

Ian Murray | 570 c576 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is making a compelling case about 16 and 17-year-olds voting, and he is right to t...

Gareth Thomas | 570 c576 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes an interesting point, and perhaps I could encourage him to have a further co...

Gareth Thomas | 570 c576 (Link to this contribution)

Let me make a little progress. There is an old adage that young people grow up too quickly these ...

Lord Beamish | 570 c576 (Link to this contribution)

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I know that you follow the rules of the House closely,...

Baroness Primarolo | 570 c577 (Link to this contribution)

It is quite simple: photography in the Chamber is not allowed by anybody. I am sure that those on...

Lord Beamish | 570 c577 (Link to this contribution)

Further to that point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I accept that point, but would it be in ord...

Baroness Primarolo | 570 c577 (Link to this contribution)

I am advised that we can ask a Doorkeeper to undertake that should it be necessary.

Lord Wharton of Yarm | 570 c577 (Link to this contribution)

claimed to move the closure (Standing Order No. 36).

Question put forthwith, That the Quest...

Baroness Primarolo | 570 c577 (Link to this contribution)

I ask the Serjeant at Arms to investigate the delay in the No Lobby.

Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 570 c577 (Link to this contribution)

I ask the Serjeant at Arms to investigate the delay in the No Lobby.

Graham P Jones | 570 c577 (Link to this contribution)

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker.

Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 570 c580 (Link to this contribution)

No points of order are taken during a Division.

Chris Williamson | 570 c580 (Link to this contribution)

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. Earlier this morning, I sought to make a point of orde...

Chris Williamson | 570 c580 (Link to this contribution)

I sought Mr Speaker’s guidance on whether imperial legislation was being used to cover divisions ...

Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 570 c580 (Link to this contribution)

Order. The hon. Gentleman can resume his seat. He has already attempted to make a point of order....

William Bain | 570 c580 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move amendment 68, page 1, line 3, at end insert—

‘(1A) Before the appointment of ...

Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 570 cc580-5 (Link to this contribution)

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following: amendment 76, page 1, line 4, leave out...

William Bain | 570 c585 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to speak in the Chamber for the first time under your chairmanship, Madam Deputy...

Edward Leigh | 570 c585 (Link to this contribution)

Does the Labour party accept the principle that there should be a referendum at all?

William Bain | 570 c585 (Link to this contribution)

The answer remains the same as on Second Reading: we do not believe that now is the right time to...

Ian Murray | 570 c586 (Link to this contribution)

This is the crux of a very important debate not just about the Bill, but in general about members...

William Bain | 570 c586 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend points to the inconvenient truth for the Government and for the promoter of the Bi...

Seema Malhotra | 570 c586 (Link to this contribution)

Is my hon. Friend aware of the recent London Chamber of Commerce report “Help or hindrance? The v...

William Bain | 570 c586 (Link to this contribution)

I entirely agree with my hon. Friend. She will know as well as business, the trade unions and man...

Mike Gapes | 570 c586 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is no doubt aware that a free trade agreement has recently been agreed with Canada...

William Bain | 570 cc586-7 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is right. The prospect of having to renegotiate 130 separate free trade agreements...

Charles Walker | 570 c587 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is quoting the CBI. Is this the same CBI that said that the UK would face econ...

William Bain | 570 c587 (Link to this contribution)

I am somewhat perplexed. The Conservative party has for decades, if not centuries, marketed itsel...

Bernard Jenkin | 570 c587 (Link to this contribution)

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I am reading the amendment very carefully. It talks ab...

Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 570 c587 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is correct to suggest that it is not a pretext. I am listening very carefully ...

Huw Irranca-Davies | 570 c587 (Link to this contribution)

It is very good to make my first intervention under your chairmanship, Madam Deputy Speaker, and ...

William Bain | 570 cc587-8 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is entirely right. As a specialist in the common agricultural policy and the needs...

Bernard Jenkin | 570 c588 (Link to this contribution)

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. It is quite clear that the hon. Gentleman is using thi...

Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 570 c588 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his point. I am certain that the hon. Member for Glasgow ...

William Bain | 570 c588 (Link to this contribution)

Absolutely, Madam Deputy Speaker.

Through these amendments, I seek to give Parliament and, ...

Ian Murray | 570 c588 (Link to this contribution)

The CBI has consulted its members and said that eight out of 10 of them, including 77% of small a...

William Bain | 570 c588 (Link to this contribution)

I entirely agree with my hon. Friend.

It is interesting to explain the purpose behind these...

Huw Irranca-Davies | 570 c588 (Link to this contribution)

In probing amendment 68, may I ask my hon. Friend whether he envisages consulting organisations s...

William Bain | 570 c588 (Link to this contribution)

That is correct and I agree with my hon. Friend in his ambition to make sure that when the Govern...

Daniel Kawczynski | 570 c589 (Link to this contribution)

I have received representations from Shropshire farmers who very much want to remain in the Europ...

William Bain | 570 c589 (Link to this contribution)

If I may point out some of the problems with the hon. Gentleman’s argument, the reason for my ame...

Huw Irranca-Davies | 570 c589 (Link to this contribution)

Perhaps I have a helpful suggestion with regard to amendment 68. When Wales held a referendum on ...

William Bain | 570 c589 (Link to this contribution)

I entirely agree with my hon. Friend.

I want to further explain the reasons for and rationa...

Ian Lucas | 570 c589 (Link to this contribution)

Is not the key point that the Conservative party cannot even carry the Government, of which it is...

Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 570 c589 (Link to this contribution)

Order. I am sure that the hon. Member for Glasgow North East (Mr Bain) will recognise that the in...

William Bain | 570 c590 (Link to this contribution)

The purpose of the amendment is to ensure that this issue receives a similar assessment to what w...

Robert Halfon | 570 c590 (Link to this contribution)

The referendum will not be tomorrow, but in 2017. There will be plenty of time for White Papers a...

William Bain | 570 c590 (Link to this contribution)

We are trying to clarify what the Government and the promoter of the Bill want the public to have...

Barry Sheerman | 570 c590 (Link to this contribution)

I am certainly not anti-referendum. However, when a Bill is introduced through the back door by m...

William Bain | 570 c590 (Link to this contribution)

That is a pertinent and well made point.

Helen Goodman | 570 c590 (Link to this contribution)

Further to the intervention by my hon. Friend the Member for Huddersfield (Mr Sheerman), is it th...

William Bain | 570 c590 (Link to this contribution)

Sadly, that is correct. Before I became a Member of this House, I watched with great enthusiasm t...

Mike Gapes | 570 c590 (Link to this contribution)

Is not the reason for this strange arrangement that there could be no consultation because it wou...

Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 570 c590 (Link to this contribution)

Order. Once again, I am sure that the hon. Member for Glasgow North East (Mr Bain) will recognise...

William Bain | 570 cc590-1 (Link to this contribution)

Thank you for that ruling, Madam Deputy Speaker.

There is an even stronger parallel to be d...

Adam Afriyie | 570 c591 (Link to this contribution)

It has been a bit of a bumpy ride for me getting to today, to say the least—particularly among co...

Adam Afriyie | 570 c591 (Link to this contribution)

I will not give way, because Members are—

Helen Goodman | 570 c591 (Link to this contribution)

This is a point of order.

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. Is it in order for the...

Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 570 c592 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the hon. Lady for her point. At the moment, the hon. Gentleman is giving a general introd...

Barry Sheerman | 570 c592 (Link to this contribution)

Further to that point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I have a great deal of time for the honesty...

Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 570 c592 (Link to this contribution)

Order. The hon. Gentleman knows that that is not a point of order. If he wishes to engage in deba...

Adam Afriyie | 570 c592 (Link to this contribution)

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, for your wise words. I am speaking specifically about a 2014 ref...

Charles Walker | 570 c592 (Link to this contribution)

Will my hon. Friend give way on that point?

Adam Afriyie | 570 c592 (Link to this contribution)

I will take one intervention, but I am trying to get through my speech.

Charles Walker | 570 c592 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my hon. Friend, and I am sorry for being one of the bumps in the bumpy ride that he has h...

Adam Afriyie | 570 c592 (Link to this contribution)

As I said, we are completely united as a party in wanting to give the British people a say. There...

Adam Afriyie | 570 c592 (Link to this contribution)

I will not give way any more, because I am conscious that the Opposition want to talk out the Bil...

Huw Irranca-Davies | 570 c592 (Link to this contribution)

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. The hon. Gentleman says that the Opposition are trying...

Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 570 c593 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman knows that that is not a point of order and that nobody is talking out anythin...

Adam Afriyie | 570 c593 (Link to this contribution)

Again, I thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, for your wise words on all matters under debate.

...

Lord Hain | 570 c593 (Link to this contribution)

May I also express my delight at seeing you in the Chair, Madam Deputy Speaker, and respond brief...

Brian Binley | 570 c593 (Link to this contribution)

Will the right hon. Gentleman explain why an exit would cause the loss of loads of jobs in this c...

Lord Hain | 570 cc593-4 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful that the hon. Gentleman raises that issue as I will deal with it later on and call ...

Edward Leigh | 570 c594 (Link to this contribution)

Labour Members appear to want to consult the CBI, Uncle Tom Cobleigh and all, which is fair enoug...

Lord Hain | 570 c594 (Link to this contribution)

Labour has never been afraid of consulting people in referendums. We have called more referendums...

Bob Stewart | 570 c594 (Link to this contribution)

I would have thought that those points of view would come out in the campaign, so why would we ne...

Lord Hain | 570 cc594-5 (Link to this contribution)

I have taken every intervention that hon. Members have wished to make and I want to make progress...

William Cash | 570 c595 (Link to this contribution)

The right hon. Gentleman has massive pro-European credentials, as he puts it, so will he explain ...

Lord Hain | 570 c595 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his intervention because I am about to name-check him—and...

Martin Horwood | 570 c595 (Link to this contribution)

The right hon. Gentleman is making important points. I suspect that we probably agree on whether ...

Lord Hain | 570 c595 (Link to this contribution)

What we need is for the Government to consult the CBI properly, not just stick a copy of its

<...
Barry Sheerman | 570 c596 (Link to this contribution)

Who would we consult about peace? We are coming up to Remembrance Sunday. In 1914, bad newspaper ...

Lord Hain | 570 c596 (Link to this contribution)

I will come to that point when I discuss whether we should consult groups such as the Royal Briti...

Susan Elan Jones | 570 c596 (Link to this contribution)

One consultee that my right hon. Friend proposes is the National Farmers Union. As urban areas ar...

Lord Hain | 570 cc596-7 (Link to this contribution)

I do, and I am about to make that point.

As the hon. Member for Stone (Mr Cash) said, I am ...

Huw Irranca-Davies | 570 c597 (Link to this contribution)

Does my right hon. Friend agree that consultation would also allow light to be shone on the work ...

Lord Hain | 570 cc597-8 (Link to this contribution)

Indeed, I think the CER does some very good work, and again I hope that under sub-paragraph (j) i...

Mike Gapes | 570 c598 (Link to this contribution)

If there were to be a referendum on the basis that the Government, or at least the Conservative p...

Lord Hain | 570 c598 (Link to this contribution)

I agree completely. All that social protection would be dispensed with under the Conservative nir...

Martin Horwood | 570 c598 (Link to this contribution)

I agree entirely with what the right hon. Gentleman says about the way our influence on many of t...

Lord Hain | 570 cc599-600 (Link to this contribution)

I am at a loss to understand what exactly the Lib Dem role is in all this. If the hon. Gentleman ...

Graham Stringer | 570 c600 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. Friend is making a balanced speech, but will he explain how putting £2 into the Eur...

Lord Hain | 570 cc600-1 (Link to this contribution)

I was discussing Wales, where there is a surplus of £40 per person in relation to the money contr...

Ian Murray | 570 c601 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. Friend is making a strong case showing why these issues need to be examined in grea...

Lord Hain | 570 c601 (Link to this contribution)

As a Scottish MP of high repute in this House, my hon. Friend presents his evidence with some cre...

Edward Leigh | 570 c601 (Link to this contribution)

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. Is this a debate about the merits of remaining part of...

Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 570 c601 (Link to this contribution)

I have already explained this morning that I am listening carefully to all Members to ensure that...

Lord Hain | 570 cc601-2 (Link to this contribution)

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

I believe that a consultation would also reveal that the G...

Mike Gapes | 570 c602 (Link to this contribution)

Will my right hon. Friend give way?

Lord Hain | 570 c602 (Link to this contribution)

I want to make some progress so that others have a chance to speak.

A consultation with the...

William Cash | 570 c602 (Link to this contribution)

Will the right hon. Gentleman address the question asked by my hon. Friend the Member for Windsor...

Lord Hain | 570 c602 (Link to this contribution)

As in 1992 and 1993, when the hon. Gentleman and I were on the same side of the argument on the M...

Julian Lewis | 570 c603 (Link to this contribution)

The right hon. Gentleman is very gracious to give way when we are so pressed for time. May I invi...

Lord Hain | 570 cc603-4 (Link to this contribution)

Although I have much respect for the hon. Gentleman, I invite him to wait and see. He might not e...

John Baron | 570 c604 (Link to this contribution)

I have great respect for the right hon. Gentleman, but I suggest that he does not keep referring ...

Lord Hain | 570 c604 (Link to this contribution)

I disagree with the hon. Gentleman, he will not be surprised to hear. Norway and especially Switz...

Phil Wilson | 570 c604 (Link to this contribution)

If we are not going to listen just to the CBI, perhaps we should listen to Nissan in my region as...

Lord Hain | 570 c604 (Link to this contribution)

Indeed. A consultation should be held, and one of the first organisations that should be consulte...

Martin Horwood | 570 c604 (Link to this contribution)

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

Lord Hain | 570 cc604-5 (Link to this contribution)

I will make progress. I have let the hon. Gentleman in a number of times.

The point that I ...

Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 570 c605 (Link to this contribution)

Order. Before the right hon. Gentleman attempts to make further progress, I should suggest to him...

Lord Hain | 570 c605 (Link to this contribution)

I was planning to do precisely that, Madam Deputy Speaker. I regret having taken so many interven...

David Lidington | 570 cc605-6 (Link to this contribution)

The amendments in this group fall into three categories: the significant amendment about consulta...

Edward Leigh | 570 c606 (Link to this contribution)

When will the serious renegotiation start?

David Lidington | 570 c606 (Link to this contribution)

The serious work on the reform of the European Union is already under way. I know that my hon. Fr...

Gareth Thomas | 570 c606 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister is just talking about the past. What powers and competences does he think the Prime ...

David Lidington | 570 c606 (Link to this contribution)

What I would like to know from the hon. Gentleman and his party is whether they want to give the ...

Mike Gapes | 570 c606 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister should be aware that I have not yet had a chance to speak to those amendments, so he...

David Lidington | 570 c607 (Link to this contribution)

The amendments touch on matters that every Government already have to consider in looking at elec...

Gareth Thomas | 570 c607 (Link to this contribution)

Surely the Minister thinks that the British people are entitled to know what plan B would be if a...

David Lidington | 570 c607 (Link to this contribution)

It is already open to the CBI and to any other such organisations to express their views fully an...

Barry Sheerman | 570 c607 (Link to this contribution)

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. We can wake up to the fact that still we have not hear...

David Lidington | 570 c607 (Link to this contribution)

I give way to the hon. Gentleman.

Chris Williamson | 570 c607 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the Minister for giving way. Earlier in the debate, he said that the stakeholder...

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