European Union (Referendum) Bill
About these Parliamentary proceedings
Reference
570 cc533-607 Session
2013-14Legislative stage
Report stageChamber / Committee
House of Commons chamberRelated items
Friday, 29 November 2013
Parliamentary proceedings
House of Commons
Proceeding contributions
We shall shortly begin with new clause 1, but not before I have heard the point of order from Mr ...
Show all contributions (336)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. It is stated clearly in “Erskine May” that the vote must go with...
I am extremely grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his point of order and I respect the spirit in ...
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I would be grateful for your guidance on whether there is a mode...
I cannot say I am very grateful for that point of order, for the simple reason that, as the hon. ...
On a point of order, Mr Speaker.
I hope it is a genuine one.
Mr Speaker, your selection of amendments is obviously correct and beyond reproach, but perhaps yo...
Order. The hon. Gentleman will resume his seat. He has been in the House long enough to know that...
I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:
Amendment 41, in clause 2, page 1...
I am proud to move new clause 1, in the name of my hon. Friend the Member for Stockton South (Jam...
Is it the hon. Gentleman’s opinion that the people living in Gibraltar today are also pleased tha...
I was about to come to that very point. It was only a few years ago, in June 2004, that after a v...
I will not be giving way.
The vast majority of people in Gibraltar, unlike people in the Un...
I served on the Committee, and during our proceedings we looked very closely at this matter. I re...
Does the hon. Gentleman recognise that that demonstrates the importance that Government Members a...
No, I am sorry, but I do not. I think the whole question of a referendum is a very important one ...
My hon. Friend rightly says that Ministers and, indeed, the Bill’s promoter, completely forgot ab...
I have been in this House long enough to be grateful for small mercies, and we did, after all, ge...
Order. I do not know why the hon. Gentleman is suggesting that there is anything unusual either a...
I am grateful for that, Mr Speaker.
I will conclude my remarks and hope to be called later ...
I rise to support new clause 1. The absurd proposal in this group is obviously amendment 43, whic...
I am most grateful to you, Mr Speaker, for calling me to speak in this debate.
As I am sure...
As regards new clause 1, does my hon. Friend agree that it would be helpful if the Bill’s promote...
I fully agree. You will recall, Mr Speaker, that on Wednesday evening we had a debate about the u...
indicated dissent.
No? I am sorry about that, because it has been puzzling me.
I am keen on giving the people ...
It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Dunfermline and West Fife (Thomas Docherty), who i...
If I may briefly correct the hon. Gentleman on two points, he just referred to Gibraltar as a Cro...
The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. I was talking about representation and was about to point...
The hon. Gentleman has said he is not clear where this would leave Gibraltar. Is it not obvious t...
That will probably get the hon. Gentleman “quote of the day” in somebody’s column, but I am not s...
I am afraid that the hon. Gentleman is getting this completely back to front. The people of Gibra...
I am afraid that the hon. Gentleman is wrong. Gibraltar is not equivalent to Essex in any respect...
I am listening attentively to the hon. Gentleman and, as a Scot, I do not quite follow his logic....
I will explain. The situation is different from that in Scotland, because Scotland, for the time ...
The hon. Gentleman must have misspoken. I think he just said—perhaps I heard him wrong—that Gibra...
Yes, you did.
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for endorsing me. I do not think the hon. Gentleman meant to say ...
No, on this occasion I do not think the hon. Gentleman is right. Gibraltar is a UK territory but,...
I really am disappointed that the hon. Gentleman has not had an opportunity to talk to the many M...
The reason why Gibraltar could decide to join the kingdom of Spain should it ever want to—obvious...
That’s semantics.
It is a rather semantic point. I feel that we are leading the House down something of an angels-d...
Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
I am reluctant to take another intervention on this point, because the Members behind me will be ...
My intervention is on a different point. Is not a more powerful argument in support of the new cl...
That was a much more constructive intervention and it was typically well made by the hon. Gentlem...
Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
All right—one last time.
The hon. Gentleman has not mentioned the most important benefit of the European Union. We have a ...
I will not rise to that point. It takes us away from the core subject matter of the new clause.
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Is it in order for an hon. Member to refer to amendments that yo...
The substance of the amendments is a matter for debate. I sincerely hope that the hon. Member for...
Heaven forfend that I should question the selection of amendments once again, having been appropr...
Is the hon. Gentleman as perplexed as I am that the Government can justify reducing the voting ag...
The hon. Gentleman is drawing me into commenting on the Scottish referendum, which is rather dang...
Amendment 44 does not say that we should extend the vote to 16 to18-year-olds in order that they ...
The hon. Gentleman again makes a good point. It is the future of those young people that we are d...
The hon. Gentleman has understandably focused the majority of his remarks on Gibraltar on the ent...
I have already invited the Minister to comment on the new clause in general. In fact, I should re...
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Is it not the case that anyone speaking from the Dispatch Box on...
The right hon. Gentleman is correct. That is the situation—a Minister who speaks from the Treasur...
That raises an interesting issue that perhaps the Government—both sides of the coalition—should r...
First, I thank you, Mr Speaker, for selecting a large number of amendments that I tabled and for ...
Does my hon. Friend agree that the Bill also excludes citizens of other EU countries who may have...
That is absolutely correct, and I will address that point as I talk in detail about each of my am...
I do not fully follow my hon. Friend’s logic; I hope that he will explain it better. We do not al...
I will talk about overseas territories’ relationship with the European Union later. Along with th...
I wrote to the overseas territories a few months ago to inquire about that point, and I know that...
I am a member of the Foreign Affairs Committee. In the previous Parliament, we carried out a majo...
I thank my hon. Friend for setting out his lucid argument. Although I support new clause 1 and ma...
I agree, which was why I tabled a series of amendments relating to the overseas territories. We m...
I am curious about what would happen if the people of Gibraltar voted to remain part of the EU, b...
My guess is that if we had left the EU, the rest of the EU would not necessarily regard us as a c...
My hon. Friend makes an excellent point that applies to other British overseas territories that h...
On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I know that we are considering a private Member’s Bill...
I say to the hon. Gentleman that it is normal for Ministers to approach the Box, and only Ministe...
Order. I know where the hon. Gentleman is now thank you, Ms McCarthy, but I am saying that I did ...
Order. There cannot be anything further to that point of order. I have said that Ministers may ap...
I was halfway through giving way, Madam Deputy Speaker. Has my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow...
indicated assent.
My hon. Friend has concluded. As an aside, perhaps the solution for the Government would be to ap...
I want to return one last time to the point that my hon. Friend raised about Gibraltar and the si...
The hon. Member for Romford (Andrew Rosindell) and I have had many discussions, and we were both ...
The hon. Gentleman’s interesting point raises an intriguing prospect. If the referendum were to b...
Absolutely. A large number of my constituents come from many parts of the world. There are Britis...
My hon. Friend is making an excellent contribution and referring to matters that relate specifica...
I might be wrong, but I understand that London is the fifth largest French city. We live in a glo...
It is not just London. An individual in Durham who is an American citizen has lived here for 34 y...
I agree with my hon. Friend. There are huge implications for the economy and our people should we...
My hon. Friend tickled me when he described London as the fifth largest French city—he must not f...
We will discuss the Electoral Commission’s report on the wording of the question when we speak to...
My hon. Friend misspoke very slightly earlier when he referred to the general election franchise,...
I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend, and that is why I have tabled amendments that would apply...
My hon. Friend is expertly disentangling all the anomalies and contradictions in the Bill and the...
My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. There is no logic to the proposal; it is absurd. As I s...
Does my hon. Friend agree that many people will have sold their houses here and retired to Spain,...
That is absolutely true. The Government—[Interruption.] I am sorry; I meant to say the Minister. ...
May I take my hon. Friend back to the point he made about the Members of the other place having t...
It is difficult enough for me to contemplate the implications of rulings from the Chair in this C...
Will my hon. Friend give way?
No, I am afraid I want to conclude my remarks, because other Members wish to speak.
The Cro...
In response to the point from my hon. Friend the Member for Cheltenham (Martin Horwood), I wish t...
Given the point of order raised by the sage and right hon. Member for Warley (Mr Spellar), will t...
I am speaking as a Minister at the Foreign Office and, as always, as a member of the Conservative...
Will the Minister give way?
I have taken advice on this matter, including legal advice, so that I can be confident of giving ...
Will the Minister give way?
In Committee, I undertook to review this question, in response to points made by the hon. Member ...
Will the Minister give way?
Now, the United Kingdom—
On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker.
It had better be a point of order, Mr Jones.
The convention in the House is that if Members seek to intervene, the speaker usually acknowledge...
Mr Jones, you know full well that that is not a point of order. It is entirely up to the Minister...
Members from all three main parties have made some serious points about Gibraltar.
Will the Minister give way?
I intend to continue with my remarks and respond to the points made about new clause 1 and then t...
I am following very clearly the Minister’s attempted explanation for why subsections (2) and (3) ...
No, it is not overkill. This is a sensible piece of legislative drafting designed to put it beyon...
Will the Minister give way?
I am trying to respond to the hon. Gentleman. As I have said, I have reflected carefully on the p...
Will the Minister give way?
No. I have consulted the Chief Minister and have concluded that I should give my support and endo...
Will the Minister give way?
No, I will not.
The hon. Member for Ilford South has tabled many different amendments. He a...
Will the Minister give way?
I am replying to the hon. Member for Ilford South. He proposed amendments that seek to—
On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. From the start of the debate, I have listened intently...
I get the gist. It is not a point of order. The Minister has the Floor and is responsible for wha...
The hon. Member—
Will the Minister give way?
I am responding to the hon. Member for Ilford South. I am sure that the hon. Member for Harrow We...
Given that we are apparently going to use the UK’s general election criteria, why would there be ...
It is no more or less anomalous than the situation that applies already at our general elections,...
Minister, are you giving way?
indicated dissent.
The Minister has concluded his remarks.
I rise to support amendment 69. I would also like to comment on other amendments, including those...
I wonder whether my hon. Friend thinks it is also regrettable that we have not been joined this m...
My hon. Friend is clairvoyant in picking up that ambience from the Minister for Europe. I hope th...
I wonder what bearing the fairly recent debate and vote that the House had on prisoners’ entitlem...
My hon. Friend raises an important point. One of the issues that must accompany the referendum de...
On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I have been in the House quite a long time, but I have...
That is not a point of order. It is entirely up to Members to indicate when they want to speak. I...
Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I hope that the Prime Minister will grace us with his presence l...
A crucial point is the cost of compensation resulting from prisoners mounting challenges under th...
Order. That is quite enough. If the promoter of the Bill wishes to take part in the debate, he wi...
Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.
I fully support the amendment on votes at 16 tabled by my ...
Will my hon. Friend give way on that point?
I know that my hon. Friend will have a different view.
My hon. Friend will remember that, in Committee, I was embarrassed when my name was accidentally ...
My hon. Friend, who has been a Member of the House since 1979, raises his objections with his cus...
Is my hon. Friend aware of the Power Commission, funded by the Joseph Rowntree Foundation, which ...
I entirely agree with my hon. Friend’s point. In this Parliament, I and many of my hon. Friends h...
The hon. Member for Romford (Andrew Rosindell) moved the new clause on Gibraltar. Is my hon. Frie...
The hon. Member for Romford (Andrew Rosindell) will be accountable for his own statements, but gi...
Amendment 44 deals with the question of giving 16 and 17-year-olds the vote. I am well qualified ...
My hon. Friend is making some powerful arguments, and she will know that I very much support the ...
My hon. Friend’s good contribution included an interesting point about intergenerational accounta...
Is my hon. Friend aware that this country has been castigated for allowing young people—as young ...
Yet 16-year-olds pay tax and can get married, and 17-year-olds can drive. Young people can join t...
It is shrinking childhood.
I hear what my hon. Friend suggests, but we could equally look at it as aligning adulthood with t...
Does my hon. Friend agree that if the voting age were reduced, it would act as a spur to the educ...
Yes, I have made that very point. All of us in the Chamber have called the Secretary of State for...
Order. The hon. Lady is drifting considerably away from the subject. Occasionally saying, “That i...
As I hinted, Madam Deputy Speaker, I suspected that I would be tempted to drift away. Thank you f...
It is a genuine pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Hackney South and Shoreditch (Me...
Does my hon. Friend think it strange that the hon. Member for Romford (Andrew Rosindell) moved—be...
My hon. Friend makes an interesting point. If he will forgive me, I want to come a little later i...
I am sure that my hon. Friend is aware that, as late as 23 October, the Minister with responsibil...
My hon. Friend makes a helpful contribution by acknowledging the further mistake of Foreign Offic...
Given the lack of clarity from the Minister when he referred to the matter earlier, would it not ...
It is for hon. Members in all parts of the House to make their own judgment on that. Given that t...
I am not sure whether my hon. Friend, who is a London MP, takes The Northern Echo newspaper, but ...
I apologise to the editor of The Northern Echo because I do not take the paper regularly, althoug...
Does my hon. Friend agree that it is not just Nissan’s investment that will be put at risk, but H...
My hon. Friend makes a very good point. It is a tragedy that the hon. Member for Stockton South, ...
Order. Obviously, lots of things are said in this Chamber, but I am duty bound to point out that ...
If the hon. Gentleman does come back soon, I would certainly be willing to accept an intervention...
I note that my hon. Friend does not take The Northern Echo, but does he take the Derby Evening Te...
Order. We are talking about the specific amendments, which are about the franchise. I cannot quit...
I hope to come to the amendments on the possibility of giving 16 and 17-year-olds—some of whom ma...
I could, of course, introduce the Hounslow Chronicle to the competition, but I will refrain from ...
My hon. Friend makes a good point. I will come to the issue of 16 and 17-year-olds shortly.
My hon. Friend makes a good point. In fact, in having discussed Crown dependencies, overseas terr...
My hon. Friend makes a good point. I hope he will forgive me if I say that I have not looked at t...
Does my hon. Friend not find it rather strange that 16 and 17-year-olds are not being given a vot...
My hon. Friend makes a good point and, in a moment, I will come to an even more bizarre twist rel...
Does my hon. Friend agree that sending a positive message today about votes for 16 and 17-year-ol...
My hon. Friend makes a good point. If the Home Secretary were to endorse the idea of 16 and 17-ye...
My hon. Friend is making a good speech, but he knows that I have a long track record of disagreei...
I would not want to upset my hon. Friend further, but he makes a good point. I will come to the S...
My hon. Friend is making a compelling case about 16 and 17-year-olds voting, and he is right to t...
My hon. Friend makes an interesting point, and perhaps I could encourage him to have a further co...
Will my hon. Friend give way?
Let me make a little progress. There is an old adage that young people grow up too quickly these ...
On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I know that you follow the rules of the House closely,...
It is quite simple: photography in the Chamber is not allowed by anybody. I am sure that those on...
Further to that point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I accept that point, but would it be in ord...
I am advised that we can ask a Doorkeeper to undertake that should it be necessary.
claimed to move the closure (Standing Order No. 36).
Question put forthwith, That the Quest...
I ask the Serjeant at Arms to investigate the delay in the No Lobby.
I ask the Serjeant at Arms to investigate the delay in the No Lobby.
On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker.
No points of order are taken during a Division.
On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. Earlier this morning, I sought to make a point of orde...
I sought Mr Speaker’s guidance on whether imperial legislation was being used to cover divisions ...
Order. The hon. Gentleman can resume his seat. He has already attempted to make a point of order....
I beg to move amendment 68, page 1, line 3, at end insert—
‘(1A) Before the appointment of ...
With this it will be convenient to discuss the following: amendment 76, page 1, line 4, leave out...
It is a pleasure to speak in the Chamber for the first time under your chairmanship, Madam Deputy...
Does the Labour party accept the principle that there should be a referendum at all?
The answer remains the same as on Second Reading: we do not believe that now is the right time to...
This is the crux of a very important debate not just about the Bill, but in general about members...
My hon. Friend points to the inconvenient truth for the Government and for the promoter of the Bi...
Is my hon. Friend aware of the recent London Chamber of Commerce report “Help or hindrance? The v...
I entirely agree with my hon. Friend. She will know as well as business, the trade unions and man...
My hon. Friend is no doubt aware that a free trade agreement has recently been agreed with Canada...
My hon. Friend is right. The prospect of having to renegotiate 130 separate free trade agreements...
The hon. Gentleman is quoting the CBI. Is this the same CBI that said that the UK would face econ...
I am somewhat perplexed. The Conservative party has for decades, if not centuries, marketed itsel...
Will my hon. Friend give way?
On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I am reading the amendment very carefully. It talks ab...
The hon. Gentleman is correct to suggest that it is not a pretext. I am listening very carefully ...
I give way to my hon. Friend.
It is very good to make my first intervention under your chairmanship, Madam Deputy Speaker, and ...
My hon. Friend is entirely right. As a specialist in the common agricultural policy and the needs...
On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. It is quite clear that the hon. Gentleman is using thi...
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his point. I am certain that the hon. Member for Glasgow ...
Absolutely, Madam Deputy Speaker.
Through these amendments, I seek to give Parliament and, ...
The CBI has consulted its members and said that eight out of 10 of them, including 77% of small a...
I entirely agree with my hon. Friend.
It is interesting to explain the purpose behind these...
In probing amendment 68, may I ask my hon. Friend whether he envisages consulting organisations s...
That is correct and I agree with my hon. Friend in his ambition to make sure that when the Govern...
I have received representations from Shropshire farmers who very much want to remain in the Europ...
If I may point out some of the problems with the hon. Gentleman’s argument, the reason for my ame...
Perhaps I have a helpful suggestion with regard to amendment 68. When Wales held a referendum on ...
I entirely agree with my hon. Friend.
I want to further explain the reasons for and rationa...
Is not the key point that the Conservative party cannot even carry the Government, of which it is...
Order. I am sure that the hon. Member for Glasgow North East (Mr Bain) will recognise that the in...
The purpose of the amendment is to ensure that this issue receives a similar assessment to what w...
The referendum will not be tomorrow, but in 2017. There will be plenty of time for White Papers a...
We are trying to clarify what the Government and the promoter of the Bill want the public to have...
I am certainly not anti-referendum. However, when a Bill is introduced through the back door by m...
That is a pertinent and well made point.
Further to the intervention by my hon. Friend the Member for Huddersfield (Mr Sheerman), is it th...
Sadly, that is correct. Before I became a Member of this House, I watched with great enthusiasm t...
Is not the reason for this strange arrangement that there could be no consultation because it wou...
Order. Once again, I am sure that the hon. Member for Glasgow North East (Mr Bain) will recognise...
Thank you for that ruling, Madam Deputy Speaker.
There is an even stronger parallel to be d...
It has been a bit of a bumpy ride for me getting to today, to say the least—particularly among co...
I will not give way, because Members are—
This is a point of order.
On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. Is it in order for the...
I thank the hon. Lady for her point. At the moment, the hon. Gentleman is giving a general introd...
Further to that point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I have a great deal of time for the honesty...
Order. The hon. Gentleman knows that that is not a point of order. If he wishes to engage in deba...
Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, for your wise words. I am speaking specifically about a 2014 ref...
Will my hon. Friend give way on that point?
I will take one intervention, but I am trying to get through my speech.
I thank my hon. Friend, and I am sorry for being one of the bumps in the bumpy ride that he has h...
As I said, we are completely united as a party in wanting to give the British people a say. There...
I will not give way any more, because I am conscious that the Opposition want to talk out the Bil...
On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. The hon. Gentleman says that the Opposition are trying...
The hon. Gentleman knows that that is not a point of order and that nobody is talking out anythin...
Again, I thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, for your wise words on all matters under debate.
...
May I also express my delight at seeing you in the Chair, Madam Deputy Speaker, and respond brief...
Will the right hon. Gentleman explain why an exit would cause the loss of loads of jobs in this c...
I am grateful that the hon. Gentleman raises that issue as I will deal with it later on and call ...
Labour Members appear to want to consult the CBI, Uncle Tom Cobleigh and all, which is fair enoug...
Labour has never been afraid of consulting people in referendums. We have called more referendums...
I would have thought that those points of view would come out in the campaign, so why would we ne...
I have taken every intervention that hon. Members have wished to make and I want to make progress...
The right hon. Gentleman has massive pro-European credentials, as he puts it, so will he explain ...
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his intervention because I am about to name-check him—and...
The right hon. Gentleman is making important points. I suspect that we probably agree on whether ...
What we need is for the Government to consult the CBI properly, not just stick a copy of its
<...Who would we consult about peace? We are coming up to Remembrance Sunday. In 1914, bad newspaper ...
I will come to that point when I discuss whether we should consult groups such as the Royal Briti...
One consultee that my right hon. Friend proposes is the National Farmers Union. As urban areas ar...
I do, and I am about to make that point.
As the hon. Member for Stone (Mr Cash) said, I am ...
Does my right hon. Friend agree that consultation would also allow light to be shone on the work ...
Indeed, I think the CER does some very good work, and again I hope that under sub-paragraph (j) i...
If there were to be a referendum on the basis that the Government, or at least the Conservative p...
I agree completely. All that social protection would be dispensed with under the Conservative nir...
I agree entirely with what the right hon. Gentleman says about the way our influence on many of t...
I am at a loss to understand what exactly the Lib Dem role is in all this. If the hon. Gentleman ...
My right hon. Friend is making a balanced speech, but will he explain how putting £2 into the Eur...
I was discussing Wales, where there is a surplus of £40 per person in relation to the money contr...
My right hon. Friend is making a strong case showing why these issues need to be examined in grea...
As a Scottish MP of high repute in this House, my hon. Friend presents his evidence with some cre...
On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. Is this a debate about the merits of remaining part of...
I have already explained this morning that I am listening carefully to all Members to ensure that...
Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.
I believe that a consultation would also reveal that the G...
Will my right hon. Friend give way?
I want to make some progress so that others have a chance to speak.
A consultation with the...
Will the right hon. Gentleman address the question asked by my hon. Friend the Member for Windsor...
As in 1992 and 1993, when the hon. Gentleman and I were on the same side of the argument on the M...
The right hon. Gentleman is very gracious to give way when we are so pressed for time. May I invi...
Although I have much respect for the hon. Gentleman, I invite him to wait and see. He might not e...
I have great respect for the right hon. Gentleman, but I suggest that he does not keep referring ...
I disagree with the hon. Gentleman, he will not be surprised to hear. Norway and especially Switz...
If we are not going to listen just to the CBI, perhaps we should listen to Nissan in my region as...
Indeed. A consultation should be held, and one of the first organisations that should be consulte...
Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
I will make progress. I have let the hon. Gentleman in a number of times.
The point that I ...
Order. Before the right hon. Gentleman attempts to make further progress, I should suggest to him...
I was planning to do precisely that, Madam Deputy Speaker. I regret having taken so many interven...
The amendments in this group fall into three categories: the significant amendment about consulta...
When will the serious renegotiation start?
The serious work on the reform of the European Union is already under way. I know that my hon. Fr...
The Minister is just talking about the past. What powers and competences does he think the Prime ...
What I would like to know from the hon. Gentleman and his party is whether they want to give the ...
The Minister should be aware that I have not yet had a chance to speak to those amendments, so he...
The amendments touch on matters that every Government already have to consider in looking at elec...
Surely the Minister thinks that the British people are entitled to know what plan B would be if a...
It is already open to the CBI and to any other such organisations to express their views fully an...
On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. We can wake up to the fact that still we have not hear...
The hon. Gentleman must resume his seat.
I give way to the hon. Gentleman.
I am grateful to the Minister for giving way. Earlier in the debate, he said that the stakeholder...