UK Parliament / Open data

Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill

Debate on bills on Tuesday, 2 November 2010, in the House of Commons, led by Nick Clegg. The answering member was Sadiq Khan.
Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill. Report stage second day. Third reading debate agreed to on division (321 votes to 264) and the Bill passed.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

517 c795-892 

Session

2010-12

Department

Cabinet Office

Legislative stage

Third reading and Report stage

Chamber / Committee

House of Commons chamber

Related items

Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill. As amended in the Committee. (vote).
Tuesday, 26 October 2010
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The implications for Wales of the Government's proposals for constitutional reform. Welsh Affairs Select Committee first report with formal minutes and written evidence.
Thursday, 21 October 2010
Parliamentary committees
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The coalition Government's programme of political and constitutional reform. Evidence 15 July 2010.
Thursday, 15 July 2010
Parliamentary committees
House of Commons

Proceeding contributions

Speaker | 517 c887 (Link to this contribution) Order. I apologise for interrupting the hon. Lady, but she must be heard.
Louise Mensch | 517 c888 (Link to this contribution) I have but three minutes and I regret that I cannot give way. We have heard arguments over valleys ...

Show all contributions (323)
David Winnick | 517 c884 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Ian Lucas | 517 c885-6 (Link to this contribution) When Labour came to power in 1997, it began a major programme of constitutional reform. At its heart...
William Cash | 517 c886-7 (Link to this contribution) I have opposed this Bill from the beginning because I do not believe that it is based on any sensibl...
Julie Hilling | 517 c887 (Link to this contribution) I wanted to make a number of points, but with the shortage of time, I will keep my comments brief. L...
Louise Mensch | 517 c887 (Link to this contribution) As Opposition Members will know, I have sat through most of the debate, and I have been astonished a...
David Winnick | 517 c884 (Link to this contribution) What possible justification can there be for the boundary changes taking place without any public in...
Simon Hughes | 517 c885 (Link to this contribution) I will give the hon. Gentleman the answer, having appeared at inquiries in the past. The justificati...
Speaker | 517 c885 (Link to this contribution) Order. I have never known a situation in which the hon. Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark (Sim...
Simon Hughes | 517 c885 (Link to this contribution) This is the first of a series of radical constitutional reforms that Labour never delivered, and tha...
George Howarth | 517 c882 (Link to this contribution) It is a great privilege to follow the hon. Member for Aldridge-Brownhills (Mr Shepherd), who has dem...
Simon Hughes | 517 c883 (Link to this contribution) I will deal straight away with the remarks of the right hon. Member for Knowsley (Mr Howarth). This ...
Karl Turner | 517 c882 (Link to this contribution) Will my right hon. Friend give way?
George Howarth | 517 c882-3 (Link to this contribution) I will not, because I do not have much time and I need to allow others to speak. The hon. Member fo...
Simon Hughes | 517 c883-4 (Link to this contribution) Yes it does, compared with the current system. [Interruption.] If the hon. Gentleman will just calm ...
Julie Hilling | 517 c884 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Simon Hughes | 517 c884 (Link to this contribution) No, I am trying to be very quick. I will go on arguing from these Benches that the Government need ...
Alan Reid | 517 c877 (Link to this contribution) The Bill is a compromise brought about by the coalition agreement and it contains two different part...
Alan Reid | 517 c877 (Link to this contribution) The Deputy Speaker has asked for short speeches, so I will give way only once.
Tristram Hunt | 517 c877 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman explain the rationale behind the choice of 600 Members, given that the Liber...
Alan Reid | 517 c878 (Link to this contribution) The Liberal Democrat manifesto's proposal for 500 Members was based on the assumption that the singl...
Steve Rotheram | 517 c878-80 (Link to this contribution) It has been a long seven-and-a-half-hour wait and I did have a 10-minute speech, but I shall cut tha...
Louise Mensch | 517 c880 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Richard Shepherd | 517 c880-2 (Link to this contribution) The only question that has really worried me in the middle phase of my parliamentary career is the e...
Steve Rotheram | 517 c880 (Link to this contribution) No; I am short of time and I am being encouraged to hurry up, so I am trying to speak as fast as I c...
Huw Irranca-Davies | 517 c876 (Link to this contribution) I will abide by your dictum, Mr Deputy Speaker. It is a great privilege to follow the hon. Member f...
Speaker | 517 c876 (Link to this contribution) Many Members want to speak, and I want to call as many of them as possible. If Members are as brief ...
Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 517 c873-4 (Link to this contribution) I will be brief, as other Members want to contribute. The speeches this evening and other speeches i...
Jim Shannon | 517 c874 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that the proposed boundary changes, and the continual changes that will fo...
Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 517 c874-5 (Link to this contribution) I entirely agree with my hon. Friend. He has experience of these matters, having been a Member of th...
Charles Walker | 517 c875-6 (Link to this contribution) I shall be brief, Mr Deputy Speaker. I could have just about brought myself to vote for the Bill, b...
Peter Bottomley | 517 c876 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. The facts show that those who rebel against their own party ...
Charles Walker | 517 c876 (Link to this contribution) I think I have, Mr Deputy Speaker.
Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 517 c852 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend; that is exactly the point of my amendments on having a threshold for those v...
Mark Harper | 517 c852 (Link to this contribution) The amendments moved by my hon. Friends seek to specify certain thresholds. They are very different,...
Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 517 c851 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman anticipates my next point. A referendum is not an election; it is a completely di...
Edward Leigh | 517 c851 (Link to this contribution) Is not the virtue of my hon. Friend's amendments, compared with those of my hon. Friend the Member f...
Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 517 c850 (Link to this contribution) By tabling amendments 197 and 198 I am again trying to help the Government. The Minister made it cle...
Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 517 c851 (Link to this contribution) That is the crux of the matter. People who want a change in our constitution will go out on 5 May—I ...
Thomas Docherty | 517 c851 (Link to this contribution) My maths is not fantastic, but does the hon. Lady accept that she is talking about a turnout of up t...
Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 517 c850-1 (Link to this contribution) He is never here for these debates—never at all. The Minister has entirely taken the responsibility ...
Richard Shepherd | 517 c851 (Link to this contribution) This is a very important point. There was an old rule right through history that with proposals for ...
Thomas Docherty | 517 c861 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Deputy Prime Minister, who has joined us for the first time after eight days of...
Nick Clegg | 517 c862 (Link to this contribution) I would like to make a little progress. At the heart of this Bill are some simple principles. It is...
Nick Clegg | 517 c861 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time. First, let me welcome the scrutiny that th...
Nick Clegg | 517 c861 (Link to this contribution) I should like to make a bit of progress. The Bill has been amended during its passage through this ...
Nick Clegg | 517 c862 (Link to this contribution) As the Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office, my hon. Friend the Member for Forest of Dean (Mr Har...
William Cash | 517 c862 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the Deputy Prime Minister for giving way and hope not to detach him too long f...
Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 517 c853-4 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for pointing out to me that I have made a mistake. I have said in the past th...
Mark Harper | 517 c853 (Link to this contribution) I do not think my hon. Friend's point holds a great deal of water. I think I am right in saying that...
Christopher Chope | 517 c853 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend realise the irony of what he has just said? The Liberal Democrat MPs required tw...
Mark Harper | 517 c852-3 (Link to this contribution) Okay, but under our system of optional preferential, we are not forcing anybody to vote for anyone. ...
Mark Harper | 517 c852 (Link to this contribution) I listened carefully to my hon. Friend. I think he said that if people chose to vote for only one pe...
William Cash | 517 c852 (Link to this contribution) I did not say that people would be forced to vote. I depended for my argument on the freedom of choi...
Mark Harper | 517 c854-5 (Link to this contribution) No, the amendment is not contrary to what is in the coalition agreement, but we do not agree with it...
Edward Leigh | 517 c854 (Link to this contribution) I am now totally confused. Generally, I find it is a big mistake to attend debates, because one gets...
Mark Harper | 517 c854 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend. I do not think I have ever been quite so persuasive with any of my ...
Nick Clegg | 517 c864 (Link to this contribution) I admire my hon. Friend's commitment to his constituency, of course, and he argues his case with gre...
Mark Tami | 517 c864 (Link to this contribution) Does the Deputy Prime Minister not think his argument would be stronger if he did not make an except...
Nick Clegg | 517 c865 (Link to this contribution) Before apoplexy breaks out on the Opposition Benches, let me try to bring this to a close. Where th...
Nick Clegg | 517 c864-5 (Link to this contribution) As the hon. Gentleman may know, two constituencies are treated differently from others. One is held ...
Nick Clegg | 517 c865 (Link to this contribution) I will not give way, because I want to conclude. The elected Chamber will, I hope, agree these extr...
Julian Lewis | 517 c865 (Link to this contribution) As the right hon. Gentleman is less than overwhelmed by the prospect of this Bill, would he care to ...
Sadiq Khan | 517 c865 (Link to this contribution) I welcome the Deputy Prime Minister to the Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill. He m...
Brian Binley | 517 c866 (Link to this contribution) Is all of this peroration meant to defend the 4.2% built-in bias for the Labour party in elections? ...
Sadiq Khan | 517 c865-6 (Link to this contribution) It is all the films that have a bad ending. Most right hon. and hon. Members will agree—some publicl...
Ian Lucas | 517 c862 (Link to this contribution) The Deputy Prime Minister makes the important point that we need to ensure that we reconnect with co...
Charles Walker | 517 c863 (Link to this contribution) I do not doubt the Deputy Prime Minister's sincerity, but he used to be very keen on reducing the nu...
Nick Clegg | 517 c863 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman might shake his head and dismiss the idea of people making written representation...
Nick Clegg | 517 c862 (Link to this contribution) As the hon. Gentleman knows, the Bill provides for a significant extension—actually a tripling—of th...
Nick Clegg | 517 c863 (Link to this contribution) As the hon. Gentleman knows, registered and designated organisations in the referendum campaign will...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 517 c863 (Link to this contribution) One of the major concerns about having elections on the same day is that the media, rather than the ...
Nick Clegg | 517 c863 (Link to this contribution) There may well be a case for looking at the number of Ministers when the size of the House of Common...
Andrew George | 517 c864 (Link to this contribution) I entirely agree, of course, with the principle that we should have more equal constituencies, but n...
Geraint Davies | 517 c869 (Link to this contribution) On the issue of corrupting the democracy of the Welsh Assembly and the evidence of the Select Commit...
Sadiq Khan | 517 c868-9 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The point is what these arrogant Ministers have come to, after j...
Alan Reid | 517 c869 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman mentions the Gould report. The problems in the Scottish elections in 2007 w...
Sadiq Khan | 517 c869 (Link to this contribution) If my hon. Friend thinks that the Deputy Prime Minister—the great reformer—has read the report of th...
Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 517 c870 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman knows that I disagree about the two. It is a pity about the two.
Sadiq Khan | 517 c869-70 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is making the same mistake that the Deputy Prime Minister made, which is not to h...
Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 517 c870 (Link to this contribution) We have had many, many hours of debate on this Bill— not enough, some would argue. Unfortunately, th...
Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 517 c870 (Link to this contribution) I believe it probably was Bismarck. If ever that were true, it is true of this Bill. However, this i...
Sadiq Khan | 517 c867 (Link to this contribution) The problem with the hon. Gentleman's propositions is that the manifestos of neither coalition party...
William Cash | 517 c866-7 (Link to this contribution) On constitutional conventions, is it not the case that in many countries, including ours, Bills of t...
Sadiq Khan | 517 c866 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman, who is a friend, has been absent for the past few days, and I am not quite sure ...
Tom Harris | 517 c868 (Link to this contribution) I am always happy to come to the aid of the Liberal Democrats when they, once again, get their facts...
Simon Hughes | 517 c867-8 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman obviously has not quite understood that in a coalition, more than one party...
Sadiq Khan | 517 c868 (Link to this contribution) The deputy leader of the Liberal Democrats wants to start a new convention—have a manifesto, not win...
Albert Owen | 517 c867 (Link to this contribution) But that was the settlement given to the Welsh people, and the Deputy Prime Minister is driving a co...
Sadiq Khan | 517 c867 (Link to this contribution) We also did a novel thing in those days—Labour still does this now—of putting the things that we sta...
Albert Owen | 517 c867 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend mentioned the Government of Wales Act 1998, which specified, subject to a refer...
Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 517 c872 (Link to this contribution) I assume that the hon. Gentleman is referring to the acts of the last-but-one Prime Minister, Tony B...
Ian Murray | 517 c872 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady has said a lot about fairness. Does she think it is fair to pack the House of Lords wi...
Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 517 c872 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a very good point, but it does not change my arguments about the Bill. I apprec...
Julian Lewis | 517 c872 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to make an unhelpful intervention on my hon. Friend, whom I greatly admire, but my unders...
Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 517 c873 (Link to this contribution) Yes, I entirely accept the hon. Gentleman's point. He is totally correct. The fact is that some of u...
Kevin Brennan | 517 c872-3 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Lady acknowledge that the date of the referendum is not set in stone in the coalition ...
Tristram Hunt | 517 c873 (Link to this contribution) Is the hon. Lady—[Interruption.] Wonderful? Yes, she is wonderful, but is she aware that there is no...
Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 517 c873 (Link to this contribution) No, I must not; I have already taken up too much of the House's time and there is not much of it lef...
Jonathan Edwards | 517 c871 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Lady recognise that historically there has always been a weighting in favour of the Ce...
Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 517 c871 (Link to this contribution) Mr Deputy Speaker might say that that point is not relevant to this Bill. It is not for me to argue ...
Phil Wilson | 517 c871 (Link to this contribution) Now that we must give votes to prisoners, will we have to have equal-sized prisons?
Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 517 c871 (Link to this contribution) No, I certainly do not. The hon. Gentleman's point has no validity whatever. This is the Parliament ...
Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 517 c871 (Link to this contribution) No. I think the point is incompetent. We debated it at great length last night, and the fact is that...
Julie Hilling | 517 c871 (Link to this contribution) Is the hon. Lady aware that in 2005, when Greater Manchester reviewed 28 constituencies, the public ...
Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 517 c871 (Link to this contribution) I certainly have evidence, and it is sitting in front of me now. The fact is that in a modern, prope...
Sadiq Khan | 517 c871 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Lady think a system that is not subject to a public inquiry is more or less likely to ...
Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 517 c872 (Link to this contribution) Yes, I am aware of that, but it does not change my argument one tiny bit. The fact is that the Bill ...
Richard Shepherd | 517 c849 (Link to this contribution) I was not cogitating—I was bemused by the rationality of the hon. Gentleman's argument. If I underst...
Chris Bryant | 517 c849 (Link to this contribution) The difficulty about thresholds in the Labour movement is that, for instance, I suppose one could ha...
Chris Bryant | 517 c849 (Link to this contribution) I am very keen to abandon the Dispatch Box as soon as I possibly can, but I shall give way to my hon...
Chris Bryant | 517 c849 (Link to this contribution) To be honest, I would prefer us to have a written constitution in which all those elements were laid...
Chris Bryant | 517 c848 (Link to this contribution) Absolutely. As somebody who supports alternative vote, which I know my hon. Friend does not, and as ...
Lord Mann | 517 c848 (Link to this contribution) Like my hon. Friend, I am a supporter—and always have been—of AV. He mentioned the Labour party, and...
Mark Durkan | 517 c849-50 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman recognise that the impact of thresholds on referendums—remember that we are ...
Chris Bryant | 517 c850 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend made that point in a previous discussion, and he is absolutely right. We should have ...
Chris Bryant | 517 c847 (Link to this contribution) I shall not give way to him, because there is very little time for debate. I accept that that might ...
Chris Bryant | 517 c847 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right that there is no fixed determined policy that we are completely a...
Chris Bryant | 517 c847-8 (Link to this contribution) I was actually trying not to suggest a threshold. The hon. Lady is right in one sense, of course. I ...
Sarah Wollaston | 517 c847 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman have any threshold at which he thinks we would be completely without any val...
Chris Bryant | 517 c847 (Link to this contribution) I ought to give way, in fairness, to one of the hon. Ladies opposite.
Wayne David | 517 c848 (Link to this contribution) As well as making a powerful comment—and judgment, really—on the proposal for a threshold, is my hon...
Chris Bryant | 517 c848 (Link to this contribution) I think that a Welsh colleague is desirous of my attention.
Chris Bryant | 517 c846 (Link to this contribution) The scars of history can give us principles—that is the truth of it. That may well apply to the Cons...
Edward Leigh | 517 c846 (Link to this contribution) I am curious to know why the Labour party takes the attitude it does. Is it because it is, in princi...
Chris Bryant | 517 c846 (Link to this contribution) I will give way in a moment. In some countries that have thresholds, people are persuaded to boycott...
Chris Bryant | 517 c846 (Link to this contribution) I had offers from Labour Members, so, tempting as the hon. Lady's offer is, I am going to give way—
Chris Bryant | 517 c847 (Link to this contribution) I am not so sure actually. No, I give way to my hon. Friend the Member for Blackley and Broughton (G...
Graham Stringer | 517 c847 (Link to this contribution) I cannot imagine why my hon. Friend is not so sure about that. I would be grateful if he told us wh...
Christopher Chope | 517 c844 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend accept that the problem identified by the hon. Member for Liverpool, West Derby ...
William Cash | 517 c844 (Link to this contribution) I will undoubtedly be campaigning for a no vote, but I must also say that I rely very much on the go...
Stephen Twigg | 517 c843-4 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman mentions the international evidence. Italy has a provision that is similar to the...
William Cash | 517 c843 (Link to this contribution) Actually, I set it at over 60% until we had the shenanigans on, I think, 18 October. We were effecti...
Christopher Chope | 517 c844 (Link to this contribution) I see the hon. Gentleman nodding. If amendment 197 were to be accepted, at least one in four elector...
William Cash | 517 c842-3 (Link to this contribution) The question of threshold is the second most important issue after the question of whether we agree ...
Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 517 c843 (Link to this contribution) In light of the hon. Gentleman's strong denunciation of the Bill for the reasons he has given, why h...
William Cash | 517 c842 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment 7, page 6, line 10, at end insert ', and
Speaker | 517 c842 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:
William Cash | 517 c845 (Link to this contribution) I have voted consistently against this Bill and I will continue to do so, for the reasons that I hav...
Lord Beamish | 517 c845 (Link to this contribution) I am very interested in the hon. Gentleman's point. I agree that turkeys do not usually vote for Chr...
William Cash | 517 c845 (Link to this contribution) That is a very good question. My final point is that leaving this ultimately House of Commons issue...
Thomas Docherty | 517 c845 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is probably one of the longest serving parliamentarians. Will he clarify whether ...
Chris Bryant | 517 c846 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Member for Stone (Mr Cash) knows that I have great respect for him. He is adamantine in his...
William Cash | 517 c844 (Link to this contribution) We were all much more in agreement about this in Committee. All I can say to my hon. Friend is that ...
Edward Leigh | 517 c844 (Link to this contribution) All these amendments on thresholds are eminently sensible, but does my hon. Friend agree that there ...
William Cash | 517 c844 (Link to this contribution) I understand what my hon. Friend is saying, but the problem arises if he simply takes the view that,...
William Cash | 517 c845 (Link to this contribution) Wait a minute. That is so for the very simple reason that many people have a visceral hatred of both...
Mark Harper | 517 c825-6 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is getting ahead of himself a little. I made it clear in the statement that the G...
Chris Bryant | 517 c825 (Link to this contribution) I know that the Minister will not want to dwell on this point either, but he was talking about proce...
Mark Harper | 517 c825 (Link to this contribution) I will not dwell on that point at length, because you would rule me out of order, Mr Deputy Speaker....
Tom Greatrex | 517 c825 (Link to this contribution) Surely the solution is to have four-year fixed-term Parliaments. The UK and Scottish parliamentary e...
Mark Harper | 517 c824-5 (Link to this contribution) No, not at all. If Parliament did not adopt the orders, we would indeed have to table the amendments...
Chris Bryant | 517 c824 (Link to this contribution) When the hon. Gentleman says that the Government would revert to the previous provisions, I presume ...
Mark Harper | 517 c824 (Link to this contribution) I did not detect any focus on the amendments in the last few speeches, so I shall not address the po...
Ian Mearns | 517 c824 (Link to this contribution) Mr Deputy Speaker, I am happy to return to this matter on Third Reading, but there are some importan...
Ian Mearns | 517 c824 (Link to this contribution) Not only will those people be unable to vote in the elections; they will also be unable to vote in t...
Speaker | 517 c824 (Link to this contribution) Order. Perhaps the hon. Gentleman can help me a little. Which amendment is he speaking to?
Mark Durkan | 517 c828 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for those particular assurances, but on my reading, form 3A under schedule 8 do...
Mark Harper | 517 c828 (Link to this contribution) I agree. I said that I thought the hon. Gentleman made a fair point. I will go away, think about whe...
Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 517 c827 (Link to this contribution) When the Minister writes to the hon. Member for Foyle (Mark Durkan), will he give the same undertaki...
Mark Harper | 517 c826-7 (Link to this contribution) I will look further into that. The real issue is the ease with which returning officers can validate...
Speaker | 517 c827 (Link to this contribution) Order. A number of private conversations are going on, and I am finding it difficult to listen to th...
Mark Harper | 517 c827 (Link to this contribution) Yes, of course. I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for giving me the opportunity to confirm t...
Chris Bryant | 517 c826 (Link to this contribution) Does that meet the requirements of the later amendment that deals with the equality of votes where a...
Louise Mensch | 517 c821 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Geraint Davies | 517 c820 (Link to this contribution) I know that you have read the report a number of times already for your bedtime reading, Mr Deputy S...
Kevin Brennan | 517 c820 (Link to this contribution) I will attempt to be reasonably concise. It is worth returning to the amendments, which are about th...
Geraint Davies | 517 c819 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for your guidance, Mr Deputy Speaker. What we are talking about is the combination of ...
Mark Lazarowicz | 517 c821 (Link to this contribution) Like my hon. Friend, I think my constituents will be able to cope with the technical difficulties of...
Kevin Brennan | 517 c821 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is entirely right, and that point has been clearly made during the debate. We know th...
Speaker | 517 c820 (Link to this contribution) Order. We are talking about the combination of polls, not the Deputy Prime Minister. I would be grat...
Kevin Brennan | 517 c820-1 (Link to this contribution) Of course, Mr Deputy Speaker. The point that I was making was that the very reason for the amendment...
Speaker | 517 c823 (Link to this contribution) Order. Yet again, I think that the hon. Gentleman has not really paid due attention to the amendment...
Kevin Brennan | 517 c822 (Link to this contribution) We have found out what respect means to the hon. Lady. For me it means having mutual respect, and wh...
Kevin Brennan | 517 c822 (Link to this contribution) I fear that I will test your patience, Mr Deputy Speaker, if I make a further reference to he who sh...
Ian Mearns | 517 c822-3 (Link to this contribution) I want to speak about the complexity, confusion and unfairness that have so often been referred to i...
Mark Harper | 517 c823 (Link to this contribution) You're in the wrong part of the Bill.
Ian Mearns | 517 c823 (Link to this contribution) I'm getting there. It is no wonder that—
Speaker | 517 c823 (Link to this contribution) Order. I am also a little concerned that the hon. Gentleman is going wide of the subject of the comb...
Ian Mearns | 517 c823 (Link to this contribution) Mr Deputy Speaker, the unfairness to which I want to address my remarks mainly relates to town and c...
Louise Mensch | 517 c821 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for his generous comments earlier. It is regrettable that the catchphrase...
Geraint Davies | 517 c818-9 (Link to this contribution) I certainly agree that it is very likely that the number of spoilt ballot papers will increase. We a...
Lord Mann | 517 c819 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend mentions the cost and expense of MPs. With an independent body setting MPs' salaries,...
Speaker | 517 c819 (Link to this contribution) Order. We are now clearly straying from the amendments before us.
Geraint Davies | 517 c817-8 (Link to this contribution) I am certainly grateful that we will have a lot of scrutiny in Scotland. I agree that there is scope...
Mark Tami | 517 c818 (Link to this contribution) Can my hon. Friend foresee a situation in which two Labour supporters were campaigning for an Assemb...
Geraint Davies | 517 c818 (Link to this contribution) I wish that we had enough party workers for that to happen. However, theoretically, the people campa...
Huw Irranca-Davies | 517 c818 (Link to this contribution) Moving from policy, the mechanics of the proposal and the possible conjunction of elections, we have...
Wayne David | 517 c816 (Link to this contribution) Like my hon. Friend, I do not underestimate the ability of the electorate to understand the complexi...
Geraint Davies | 517 c816-7 (Link to this contribution) It will be very complicated to explain to people in Wales why, when they already have a proportional...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 517 c817 (Link to this contribution) I come from the west of Skye, but that is another story—[Laughter.] Valid points have been made by ...
Geraint Davies | 517 c815-6 (Link to this contribution) I am glad the hon. Gentleman believes that, because he is completely right. People are very influenc...
Mark Williams | 517 c816 (Link to this contribution) The capacity of the Welsh media to respond has been severely hampered, whether we look at the positi...
Speaker | 517 c816 (Link to this contribution) Order. A Member who is making an intervention cannot take an intervention.
Geraint Davies | 517 c816 (Link to this contribution) If we had the traditional Sky debate, with the three leaders—or two leaders, now—and ignoring the na...
Huw Irranca-Davies | 517 c816 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that this is not a question of underestimating the capacity of the elector...
Huw Irranca-Davies | 517 c816 (Link to this contribution) It could happen, unless Ministers have some secret plan and a network of workers who can explain two...
Geraint Davies | 517 c816 (Link to this contribution) The difficulty that we all have, as elected Members, is inspiring people who understand the issues t...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 517 c808 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is bang on. The Deputy Prime Minister, not content with having some opposition to...
Kevin Brennan | 517 c808 (Link to this contribution) It might not have been entirely inappropriate for the hon. Lady to intervene, because, as I recall f...
Tom Greatrex | 517 c809 (Link to this contribution) May I also mischievously ask my hon. Friend whether, in her experience, it has happened to Ministers...
Margaret Curran | 517 c809 (Link to this contribution) At the risk of being incorrect on the record, I would like to think that, no, it did not happen to m...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 517 c809 (Link to this contribution) May I mischievously ask the hon. Lady if that ever happened to her?
Margaret Curran | 517 c808-9 (Link to this contribution) I am very surprised by the technical amendments that the Government have introduced. I have previous...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 517 c810 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady mentions the 1980s, the poll tax and Thatcherism. Would she not have preferred to have...
Margaret Curran | 517 c809-10 (Link to this contribution) I would have to say that the current Administration do not quite have my record and that of my hon. ...
Speaker | 517 c810 (Link to this contribution) Order. I am sorry to interrupt the hon. Lady in mid-flow, but she is not correct. She is addressing ...
Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 517 c807 (Link to this contribution) In my case, I have the law on my side.
Huw Irranca-Davies | 517 c807-8 (Link to this contribution) Well, not to Wales, but to a UK parliamentarian. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the interesting ...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 517 c808 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for that intervention. He makes a very good point and leads me to reflect...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 517 c808 (Link to this contribution) My ““all-points Celtic”” is checking out. It was also Scotland. It was a Celtic issue, and it hit ac...
Geraint Davies | 517 c815 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is completely right on the Government's policy, but there will also be a problem with...
Lord Mann | 517 c814-5 (Link to this contribution) Of course, in the US, elections are so complex that they have the concept of punching the ticket. A ...
Geraint Davies | 517 c814 (Link to this contribution) I appreciate that the electorate is sophisticated and that it is possible to have more than one poll...
Louise Mensch | 517 c814 (Link to this contribution) Surely that is to underestimate the sophistication of the Welsh electorate. We have seen that voters...
Geraint Davies | 517 c814 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is completely right—obviously, I am privileged to serve on that Committee. There is ...
Wayne David | 517 c814 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend referred to the excellent report by the Welsh Affairs Committee. Does he agree that t...
Geraint Davies | 517 c813-4 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is right and what he says is fair. Inevitably, the media will focus on the UK ele...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 517 c813 (Link to this contribution) May I suggest to the hon. Gentleman that the real problem that we fear is what happened in the UK ge...
Mark Williams | 517 c815 (Link to this contribution) May I return the hon. Gentleman to what he said on the confusion on issues? There is a respect issue...
Geraint Davies | 517 c815 (Link to this contribution) I assume that the hon. Gentleman is saying that the elections should not be on the same day. Is that...
Mark Durkan | 517 c811-2 (Link to this contribution) I raise this because if one compares clause 4(4) with the text of amendment 18, it does seem to make...
Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 517 c811 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman confirm that he is arguing that Government amendment 18 in some way supersed...
Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 517 c813 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right, which is why we should not have the referendum on the same d...
Geraint Davies | 517 c812-3 (Link to this contribution) As a member of the Welsh Affairs Committee, which has taken a considerable amount of evidence on thi...
Speaker | 517 c810 (Link to this contribution) Order. This is getting a little out of hand. Can we come back to the amendments? I am sure that is w...
Mark Durkan | 517 c810-1 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 18 provides for the combination of three polls—the referendum, the Northern Ireland Assemb...
Margaret Curran | 517 c810 (Link to this contribution) I am indeed. I was simply drawing a parallel between this Government's approach and the behaviour of...
Geraint Davies | 517 c813 (Link to this contribution) I certainly agree with the hon. Lady. What I have just said is a prelude to what I was going to say ...
Jonathan Evans | 517 c813 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman will know that Wales has held European Parliament elections on the same day as As...
Geraint Davies | 517 c813 (Link to this contribution) Having more than one poll on the same day is not without precedent. My point is that putting yet mor...
Mark Harper | 517 c800 (Link to this contribution) It is a very helpful point, and I will respond to it at the end of the debate. Without any further ...
Kevin Brennan | 517 c799 (Link to this contribution) I do not want to push the point too far, but it is a serious point. Normally, people are issued with...
Mark Harper | 517 c799 (Link to this contribution) In black ink or any other colour. I hope that I shall be able to elucidate the position for both hon...
Mark Harper | 517 c799 (Link to this contribution) I will not write to the hon. Gentleman—
Chris Bryant | 517 c799 (Link to this contribution) Obviously I understand the process—as I am sure the Minister has foreseen, it is one of the matters ...
Mark Harper | 517 c799 (Link to this contribution) As I said earlier, the changes that we have tabled today to the combination provisions reflect the c...
Chris Bryant | 517 c799 (Link to this contribution) Form 4, which appears on page 245 of the Bill, results from an amendment that the Minister tabled to...
Mark Harper | 517 c799 (Link to this contribution) I do remember giving evidence to the Welsh Affairs Committee and I enjoyed it tremendously. I was so...
Geraint Davies | 517 c798 (Link to this contribution) The Minister gave evidence to the Welsh Affairs Committee. Has he any comments on the concerns that ...
Chris Bryant | 517 c801-2 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend, and near neighbour, is absolutely right about that. Interestingly, the Scottish Exec...
Kevin Brennan | 517 c802 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend knows it is unwise not to give way to me, because it might end up in a point of order...
Chris Bryant | 517 c802 (Link to this contribution) I will give way, but I am keen to move on.
David Hamilton | 517 c801 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that nowhere will he find a requirement that a discussion should be held i...
Chris Bryant | 517 c801 (Link to this contribution) I cannot give any explanation for that. All I know in relation to the Secretary of State for Wales i...
Huw Irranca-Davies | 517 c801 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend, like many others on the Opposition Benches, will have sat through proceedings on lar...
Chris Bryant | 517 c801 (Link to this contribution) Or, indeed, just a muddle. One of the things that Welsh Members have been trying to say during the d...
Chris Bryant | 517 c800 (Link to this contribution) Let me deal first with the process. The Minister referred to statutory instruments. All the amendmen...
Wayne David | 517 c800 (Link to this contribution) On the consultation issue, I know from experience that regular meetings used to take place, and pres...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 517 c804-5 (Link to this contribution) I hear about amendments that are probing, wrecking and reasoned, but amendment 222, in my name and t...
Chris Bryant | 517 c803-4 (Link to this contribution) It is surprising that a Government that consists of Conservatives and Liberals is taking a view on t...
Mark Harper | 517 c802-3 (Link to this contribution) While the hon. Gentleman is replying to the hon. Member for Carmarthen East and Dinefwr (Jonathan Ed...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 517 c806 (Link to this contribution) That is why respect is important. The day has been set in legislation for the Scottish Parliament fo...
Louise Mensch | 517 c806 (Link to this contribution) Surely the hon. Gentleman cannot have it both ways. We have heard much from the Opposition Benches a...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 517 c805-6 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes a good point. The salient point is not whether the election takes place eve...
Jonathan Edwards | 517 c802 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree when a clause is specific to a constituent part of the United Kingdom,...
Chris Bryant | 517 c802 (Link to this contribution) I am afraid that I sort of disagree with my hon. Friend. It is important that there should be time t...
Chris Bryant | 517 c802 (Link to this contribution) I do recall my hon. Friend raising the matter of ““The Wrong Trousers”” and Wallace and Gromit, but ...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 517 c807 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman makes a very good point for the north of Ireland.
Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 517 c807 (Link to this contribution) On the respect agenda, and further to the intervention by the hon. Member for Corby (Ms Bagshawe), t...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 517 c807 (Link to this contribution) Northern Ireland. I did notice that the right hon. Gentleman said the regions of the UK—
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 517 c807 (Link to this contribution) I've got the north to my left; I've got Northern Ireland to my right. I'm stuck in the middle with y...
Mark Durkan | 517 c807 (Link to this contribution) You can say ““north of Ireland”” to me!
Cathy Jamieson | 517 c806 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that it is a disgrace that the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Go...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 517 c806 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady is right. I wish that the status that the Scottish Government, the Welsh Assembly Gove...
Jonathan Edwards | 517 c806 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for speaking to the amendment. On the respect agenda, can he explain...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 517 c806-7 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a very good point, because that is an example of a lack of joined-up thinking, ...
Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 517 c796 (Link to this contribution) When people receive the envelope containing their postal vote, will they therefore need just one per...
Mark Harper | 517 c796-7 (Link to this contribution) There are two stages to the process. If the chief electoral officer and the chief counting officer a...
Mark Lazarowicz | 517 c797 (Link to this contribution) Do the amendments take into account the possibility of the Scottish parliamentary general election n...
Mark Harper | 517 c797 (Link to this contribution) If that election were not held on the same day, we would not be combining the referendum with the Sc...
Mark Lazarowicz | 517 c797 (Link to this contribution) The Bill provides for the polls for the referendum and the Scottish Parliament general election of 2...
Mark Harper | 517 c797-8 (Link to this contribution) The provisions enable the referendum to be combined with the election, if they are taking place on t...
Kevin Brennan | 517 c798 (Link to this contribution) I notice that the instructions set out in amendment 156 ask voters to complete the ballot paper and ...
Mark Harper | 517 c798 (Link to this contribution) The proposed forms are set out in the Bill, but some changes are necessary to reflect the changes in...
Kevin Brennan | 517 c798 (Link to this contribution) I appreciate that. The Minister might be able to elucidate later whether the requirement for black i...
Mark Harper | 517 c798 (Link to this contribution) All the forms for elections are usually set out in secondary legislation, but we have set them out i...
Speaker | 517 c795 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following: Government amendments 19 and 44 to 46, Am...
Mark Harper | 517 c795-6 (Link to this contribution) These amendments update the combination provisions in the Bill to reflect the following draft orders...
Louise Mensch | 517 c887 (Link to this contribution) Have Opposition Members forgotten so completely that among the nations of the United Kingdom is the ...
Huw Irranca-Davies | 517 c877 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman says I have a certain number of voters. What he and his Government colleagues are...
Speaker | 517 c876 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Member for that clarification, but it was not a point of order. Have you finished M...
Nick Clegg | 517 c861-2 (Link to this contribution) I read reports of the Gould report. I did not read every single word of the Gould report itself, but...
Chris Bryant | 517 c848 (Link to this contribution) She no longer wants me. As the hon. Member for Stone said earlier, two different thresholds are pro...
Mark Harper | 517 c827-8 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful, Mr Deputy Speaker. I have just one further point. The hon. Member for Foyle also rai...
Mark Durkan | 517 c822 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for emphasising the principles of the respect agenda concerning the devolved ...
Mark Williams | 517 c816 (Link to this contribution) I apologise, Mr Deputy Speaker. My point is that the Welsh media are in a parlous state, so we cann...
Chris Bryant | 517 c805 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman just slipped in, I hope, a reference to a voting system that will be used only ev...
Nick Clegg | 517 c864 (Link to this contribution) Members are jumping up with great excitement, but if I can make a little headway I will give way in ...
Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 517 c873 (Link to this contribution) Yes, the hon. Gentleman is absolutely correct: there is no democratic mandate for this referendum—no...
Sarah Wollaston | 517 c847 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Mark Harper | 517 c826 (Link to this contribution) They are about different things; they are not linked. [Interruption.] No, the later amendment is abo...
Kevin Brennan | 517 c826 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister confirm now—or, if not, later in that letter—whether, if an elector does not use b...
Kevin Brennan | 517 c821 (Link to this contribution) I will give way in a moment, but first I want to make my second point, about why I think the hon. La...
Margaret Curran | 517 c810 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, for that correction. I had to be corrected several times in the Sco...
Simon Hughes | 517 c884 (Link to this contribution) No, I am not giving way. Nobody argues that there should not be exceptions in extreme cases, which ...
Mark Harper | 517 c795 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move Government amendment 18, page 3, line 1, leave out subsection (4) and insert—

Subjects

Boundary commissions
Constituency size
Alternative vote
Absent voting
Devolution
Elections
Distribution of seats
General elections
Northern Ireland
Public consultation
Referendums
Public inquiries
Scotland
Voting behaviour
Voting methods
Reform
Wales
Scottish Parliament
Ballot papers

Legislation

Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill 2010-12

Link

View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk
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