Planning Bill. Lords Committee stage fifth day. Clauses 111 to 150, 152 to 176, 181 to 197 agreed to, with clauses 113, 114, 121, 124, 126, 149, 169, 183, 186, 193, 194, 196 agreed to as amended. Clauses 151, 177 to 180 negatived. Schedules 5 to 11 agreed to, with schedules 4, 6, and 8 agreed to as amended.
Planning Bill
Committee of the Whole House (HL)
and
Debate on bills on Monday, 20 October 2008,
in the House of Lords.
About these Parliamentary proceedings
Reference
704 c945-54,967-1018,1025-38Session
2007-08Legislative stage
Committee stageChamber / Committee
House of Lords chamberRelated items
Planning Bill. Brought from the Commons. Explanatory Notes HL Bill 69-EN also published.
Thursday, 26 June 2008
Bills
House of Lords
Thursday, 26 June 2008
Bills
House of Lords
Proceeding contributions
Lord Dixon-Smith | 704 c976-7 (Link to this contribution)
I hesitate to intervene again. This has been a detailed and interesting discussion. I know the Minis...
Earl of Caithness | 704 c977 (Link to this contribution)
I come back again because there is another point that the Minister has not answered. It is whether C...
Show all contributions (127)
Lord Bridges | 704 c976 (Link to this contribution)
I have not hitherto taken part in this debate, but listening to the interesting exchanges between th...
Lord Adonis | 704 c976 (Link to this contribution)
It is not the agent of government. It has to consider applications on their merits, subject to the n...
Lord Dixon-Smith | 704 c978 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 361:
361: Schedule 5, page 162, line 15, leave out paragraphs 8 and 9
The nob...
Lord Adonis | 704 c978-9 (Link to this contribution)
I believe that the noble Lord seeks assurances from me on the development of green-belt land. I thin...
Lord Adonis | 704 c977 (Link to this contribution)
Not as far as I am aware, but I shall confirm that matter in correspondence with the noble Earl.
Baroness Hamwee | 704 c977-8 (Link to this contribution)
The noble Lord, Lord Dixon-Smith, said that we need to be perfectly clear about what lies behind all...
Lord Adonis | 704 c976 (Link to this contribution)
I accept that the noble Lord has concerns, but it seems to me that they in fact go to the whole basi...
Lord Dixon-Smith | 704 c969-70 (Link to this contribution)
I support my noble friend in his amendment, to which we have added our names. The issue he has raise...
Earl of Caithness | 704 c970-1 (Link to this contribution)
Amendment No. 371A in my name is in this group of amendments but deals with a slightly different sub...
Lord Adonis | 704 c971-2 (Link to this contribution)
All these amendments relate to the range of issues that can be covered by an order granting developm...
Lord Jenkin of Roding | 704 c972 (Link to this contribution)
The Minister slid very quickly over the provisions that I quoted from Clause 116. I listened to what...
Lord Adonis | 704 c972-5 (Link to this contribution)
I was dealing first with the issue of the ancillary matters for which consent can be given alongside...
Bishop of Liverpool | 704 c975 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the Minister for giving way. I seek some clarification. On the authority and power ...
Lord Adonis | 704 c975 (Link to this contribution)
It cannot set it aside. This is an issue that it must weigh. The whole purpose of the IPC is to weig...
Bishop of Liverpool | 704 c975 (Link to this contribution)
An exception is stated explicitly in Clause 101(3). It is difficult to understand what the grounds f...
Lord Jenkin of Roding | 704 c969 (Link to this contribution)
Amendment No. 360A, to which my noble friends on the Front Bench have added their names, is in this ...
Lord Jenkin of Roding | 704 c975-6 (Link to this contribution)
The right reverend Prelate has raised an interesting matter, and I shall study what the Minister has...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c953 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendments Nos. 352 to 354:
352: Clause 114, page 58, line 40, at end insert ““or, if the co...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c953-4 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendments Nos. 355 to 357:
355: Schedule 4, page 160, line 32, at end insert—
““(7A) If—
(a...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c950-3 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 347:
347: Clause 113, page 58, line 6, at beginning insert ““Except in a case ...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c953 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendments Nos. 348 and 349:
348: Clause 113, page 58, line 7, at end insert—
““(5A) If the ...
Baroness Hamwee | 704 c950 (Link to this contribution)
I, too, will study what the noble Baroness has said. She agreed with my points, which has led me to ...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c950 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendments Nos. 344 to 345:
344: Clause 113, page 57, line 41, leave out ““, and under the s...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c949-50 (Link to this contribution)
I do not know the answer to that; it would depend a bit on the scope of the original application. I ...
Lord Jenkin of Roding | 704 c950 (Link to this contribution)
Before the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, withdraws her amendment, as I suspect she may, let me say th...
Baroness Hamwee | 704 c967-9 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 359A:
359A: Clause 116, page 60, line 13, leave out subsection (3)
The noble ...
Lord Patel of Bradford | 704 c954 (Link to this contribution)
I beg to move that the House do now resume.
Moved accordingly, and, on Question, Motion agreed to.
...
Lord Jenkin of Roding | 704 c946 (Link to this contribution)
Grouped with these amendments is the Question whether Clause 114 should stand part of the Bill, tabl...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c946-8 (Link to this contribution)
This is a fascinating group of amendments and I am pleased that we are kicking off with it in our de...
Baroness Hamwee | 704 c948 (Link to this contribution)
Before the Minister moves on, the part that puzzles me is her reference to something like ““highway ...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c948 (Link to this contribution)
The noble Baroness is right in that respect. The purpose of a single consent regime is to present an...
Baroness Hamwee | 704 c945-6 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 337:
337: Clause 111, page 57, line 1, leave out from ““required”” to end of l...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c948-9 (Link to this contribution)
The noble Lord has partially answered the question. As he says, we do not know at the moment what te...
Lord Dixon-Smith | 704 c948 (Link to this contribution)
I hesitate to interrupt, but would the Minister mind answering a question about a different subject?...
Lord Dixon-Smith | 704 c949 (Link to this contribution)
If I may clarify the question, it is not so much whether the pipelines would be associated developme...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c996-7 (Link to this contribution)
As the noble Lord, Lord Jenkin, has raised the spectre of the amendment, I shall put on the record s...
Lord Jenkin of Roding | 704 c997 (Link to this contribution)
I am most grateful to the Minister. It might be helpful if the staff of her department were to get i...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c997 (Link to this contribution)
I am happy to do that.
Lord Jenkin of Roding | 704 c997 (Link to this contribution)
I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Clause 167 agreed to.
Clau...
Duke of Montrose | 704 c998 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to see the Government’s consideration that the Scottish planning authorities might nee...
Lord Patel of Bradford | 704 c997-8 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 405:
405: After Clause 170, insert the following new Clause—
““Grants for advi...
Lord Patel of Bradford | 704 c998 (Link to this contribution)
The grant is most likely to go to something like Planning Aid for Scotland. The information is to gi...
Earl of Caithness | 704 c998 (Link to this contribution)
I, too, was fascinated by this clause, and I would like a little more clarification from the Ministe...
Lord Judd | 704 c999-1000 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 407:
407: Clause 171, page 91, line 3, at end insert—
““( ) Notwithstanding an...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c989 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 394:
394: Clause 149, page 78, line 17, leave out subsection (4)
On Question,...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c989 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 394A:
394A: After Clause 150, insert the following new Clause—
““Nuisance: sta...
Lord Patel of Bradford | 704 c992-4 (Link to this contribution)
Three specific issues have been raised in relation to the new enforcement regime established under P...
Lord Jenkin of Roding | 704 c991 (Link to this contribution)
Amendment No. 396A, in my name, would make sure that there is an effective time limit for the new cr...
Earl Cathcart | 704 c990-1 (Link to this contribution)
Amendments Nos. 397 and 398 concern the right to enter land without a warrant under Clause 156. They...
Baroness Hamwee | 704 c989 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 396:
396: Clause 154, page 79, line 16, after ““of”” insert ““or not fully in ...
Lord Jenkin of Roding | 704 c996 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 399A:
399A: Clause 167, page 85, line 8, at end insert—
““( ) in subsection (1...
Baroness Hamwee | 704 c995 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the Minister for his explanation and for having spotted a point which I was able to...
Lord Patel of Bradford | 704 c994-5 (Link to this contribution)
The issue of time limits was debated in the other place, and following concerns raised by Robert Nei...
Lord Jenkin of Roding | 704 c994 (Link to this contribution)
Can the noble Lord respond to the important point that if the period is extended, it is without limi...
Lord Dixon-Smith | 704 c1011 (Link to this contribution)
The explanation for that is simple: the noble Baroness has taken the trouble to write to me on those...
Earl of Caithness | 704 c1011 (Link to this contribution)
I support the noble Lord, Lord Cameron of Dillington, in particular. I ask the Minister, when she co...
Lord Dixon-Smith | 704 c1011 (Link to this contribution)
As I have five amendments in this group, I thought I might have a chance to speak to them before my ...
Lord Tyler | 704 c1009-11 (Link to this contribution)
Amendment No. 429A introduces a new clause in relation to the use class orders, which neatly follows...
Lord Cameron of Dillington | 704 c1008-9 (Link to this contribution)
I rise to speak to my Amendment No. 417A, mentioned by the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee. I thank the ...
Baroness Whitaker | 704 c1008 (Link to this contribution)
I shall speak very briefly to Amendment No. 413ZA and deal also with Amendments Nos. 413B and 432B, ...
Baroness Hamwee | 704 c1006-8 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 412:
412: After Clause 176, insert the following new Clauses—
““Publicity for ...
Lord Judd | 704 c1005-6 (Link to this contribution)
I thank my noble friend for her characteristically full reply. I know that she is wrestling with thi...
Lord Greaves | 704 c1004 (Link to this contribution)
Do I understand that the Minister will not answer my question? I do not blame her if she does not.
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1004-5 (Link to this contribution)
I am so sorry; I had no intention of not answering the noble Lord’s question. We are not in the busi...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1002-3 (Link to this contribution)
Perhaps I may develop my argument, because the second part was essentially about the extension of de...
Lord Greaves | 704 c1003 (Link to this contribution)
Will the Minister give us an absolute assurance that the Government will not provide any incentives ...
Lord Cameron of Dillington | 704 c1003 (Link to this contribution)
The Minister mentioned regional assemblies five or six times. As I understand it, they will cease to...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1003-4 (Link to this contribution)
Perhaps I may go into a bit of detail. The powers of regional assemblies will be transferred in 2010...
Lord Cameron of Dillington | 704 c1001 (Link to this contribution)
I suppose both proposals, but probably more so the Question whether the clause should stand part. I ...
Baroness Hamwee | 704 c1000 (Link to this contribution)
The noble Lord, Lord Judd, has pretty much said it all, but I go further in seeking to take the clau...
Lord Tyler | 704 c1002 (Link to this contribution)
Does the Minister accept that if the change to which she refers takes place, the point of the noble ...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1001-2 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to my noble friend Lord Judd for enabling us to have this debate. This is an important...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1032-3 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 419:
419: Clause 183, page 107, line 19, at end insert—
““(4) After subsection...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1031 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendments Nos. 415 and 416:
415: Clause 183, page 106, line 42, leave out ““In””
416: Cla...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1032 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 417:
417: Clause 183, page 107, line 4, leave out from beginning to end of lin...
Lord Tyler | 704 c1029 (Link to this contribution)
How does the Minister propose to ensure that third parties, who may be local representatives, are bu...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1027-9 (Link to this contribution)
These are important issues and I am sorry if some noble Lords did not receive the famous letter. I s...
Lord Cameron of Dillington | 704 c1026-7 (Link to this contribution)
I, too, oppose the Question that Clause 190 stand part of the Bill and point out that I have not see...
Lord Jenkin of Roding | 704 c1031 (Link to this contribution)
Nobody has actually said, in the course of the debate, how grateful we are to the noble Baroness for...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1030-1 (Link to this contribution)
Yes; I shall repeat the point. In those circumstances, if there is evidence that a local planning au...
Lord Jenkin of Roding | 704 c1030 (Link to this contribution)
Does that mean that if a planning inspector finds that a local authority has behaved unreasonably in...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1029-30 (Link to this contribution)
I am sure that provision can be made for that. However, because I do not have the detail of how it f...
Lord Jenkin of Roding | 704 c1025 (Link to this contribution)
had given notice of his intention to move Amendment No. 413A:
413A: Clause 177, page 96, line 24, ...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1025 (Link to this contribution)
I will take advantage of the noble Lord’s courtesy and give the Government’s arguments for withdrawi...
Lord Jenkin of Roding | 704 c1025-6 (Link to this contribution)
A number of other amendments are grouped with this amendment. I do not know whether other noble Lord...
Baroness Hamwee | 704 c1026 (Link to this contribution)
On Clause 190, I have not seen the Minister’s letter and I should be grateful for a copy. I indicate...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1012-4 (Link to this contribution)
This has been an interesting debate because so many amendments raise significant problems in differe...
Earl of Caithness | 704 c1012 (Link to this contribution)
I was delighted to give way to my noble friend Lord Dixon-Smith. I was not certain whether he was go...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1014-8 (Link to this contribution)
That is correct in relation to the classes that we were talking about. Consultation will take place ...
Lord Cameron of Dillington | 704 c1014 (Link to this contribution)
I am probably very naïve about parliamentary speak, but so that I am totally clear, did the Minister...
Lord Patel of Bradford | 704 c1018 (Link to this contribution)
I beg to move that the House be resumed. In doing so, I suggest that the Committee stage begin again...
Baroness Hamwee | 704 c1018 (Link to this contribution)
I know what I ought to do, but before I do it, I urge the Minister to ensure that the problem for th...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1038 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 435:
435: Clause 196, page 121, leave out lines 8 to 12
On Question, amendmen...
Earl Cathcart | 704 c1034-5 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 434A:
434A: Clause 195, page 120, leave out lines 18 to 33
The noble Earl sai...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 704 c1035 (Link to this contribution)
While I agree with the noble Earl that this should be debated, surely the principle involved—that we...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1035-7 (Link to this contribution)
I am very grateful that we have had an opportunity to debate Wales in this Chamber—and grateful for ...
Earl Cathcart | 704 c1037-8 (Link to this contribution)
I thank the Minister for her response. The safest thing for me to do at this stage is to report back...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1033 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 431:
431: Clause 186, page 112, line 13, leave out ““contained in the planning...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1033 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 432:
432: Schedule 8, page 173, line 8, leave out paragraph 16
On Question, a...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1033-4 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 433:
433: Clause 193, page 118, line 35, at beginning insert ““in the case of ...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1034 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 434:
434: Clause 194, page 119, line 34, at beginning insert ““in the case of ...
Lord Cobbold | 704 c981 (Link to this contribution)
Local planning authorities simply do not accept any possibility of development in these areas.
Lord Adonis | 704 c980-1 (Link to this contribution)
The Government share the concerns of the noble Lords, Lord Cobbold and Lord Reay, that communities s...
Lord Jenkin of Roding | 704 c980 (Link to this contribution)
I am sorry, but I was trying to discover where we were. The solution is that the Chamber did not giv...
Lord Reay | 704 c980 (Link to this contribution)
I am not a landowner in the green belt, but I support the amendment proposed by the noble Lord, Lord...
Lord Dixon-Smith | 704 c981-2 (Link to this contribution)
I apologise to the noble Lord, Lord Cobbold, for forgetting that he had an amendment in this group. ...
Lord Cobbold | 704 c981 (Link to this contribution)
I thank the Minister for that reply, but I know what is in the box of existing villages in PPG2—it i...
Lord Adonis | 704 c981 (Link to this contribution)
They may say that, but the policy, under paragraph 2.11 of PPG2, enables local planning authorities,...
Lord Adonis | 704 c979 (Link to this contribution)
I think that the noble Lord, Lord Cobbold, had an amendment in this group—
Lord Dixon-Smith | 704 c979 (Link to this contribution)
I am most grateful to the Minister for that response, which removes our concerns. It was a probing a...
Lord Greaves | 704 c986 (Link to this contribution)
To return to the point about deregistration, where land is acquired by compulsory purchase, the Bill...
Lord Adonis | 704 c985-6 (Link to this contribution)
As the noble Lord said, restrictions are already in statute to prevent the compulsory acquisition of...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c986-7 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 376:
376: Clause 126, page 65, line 41, leave out ““an application for an”” an...
Lord Adonis | 704 c986 (Link to this contribution)
I will look at the issue further and return to the noble Lord. I will also return to him on his poin...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c988 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendments Nos. 391 to 393:
391: Schedule 6, page 165, line 5, at end insert—
““This is subj...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c987-8 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendments Nos. 389A to 389B:
389A: After Clause 145, insert the following new Clause—
““Lia...
Lord Colwyn | 704 c982 (Link to this contribution)
had given notice of his intention to move Amendment No. 374A:
374A: Clause 124, page 64, line 34, ...
Lord Adonis | 704 c982 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 373:
373: Clause 121, page 62, line 29, at end insert—
““(aa) section 10 (comp...
Lord Greaves | 704 c983-5 (Link to this contribution)
My noble friend Lady Hamwee and I tabled Amendments Nos. 379 and 382 and have given notice of our in...
Lord Adonis | 704 c982 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 375:
375: Clause 124, page 64, line 40, leave out ““an application for an”” an...
Earl of Caithness | 704 c976 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful for that response. The noble Lord has the power. Is he going to exercise it and, if so...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c945 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I beg to move that the House do now again resolve itself into Committee on this Bill.
Mov...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c997 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendments Nos. 402 to 404:
402: Clause 169, page 88, line 2, after ““construction”” insert ...
Baroness Thornton | 704 c1038 (Link to this contribution)
I beg to move that the House do now resume.
Moved accordingly, and, on Question, Motion agreed to.
Lord Cobbold | 704 c979-80 (Link to this contribution)
Perhaps I may speak to my Amendment No. 406. It comes at the beginning of Chapter 2 of the Bill, whi...
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