Planning Bill

I am very grateful that we have had an opportunity to debate Wales in this Chamber—and grateful for the support of the noble Lord, Lord Livsey of Talgarth. I cannot comment on how the other place organises its time, but we can make up for it this evening in the quality and forensic nature of our debate on why we need this very important clause. I shall not rehearse the whole argument for devolution—I will if noble Lords insist, but time is getting on—as I think that the noble Lord, Lord Livsey, has already done so very well. I would like to pick up on a phrase that the noble Earl, Lord Cathcart, used. He said that this is not a question of acquiring power for the sake of it but that Wales needs this for a strong and compelling reason, which is to make sure that the whole of its planning system is functional. I think that was the burden of what the noble Lord, Lord Livsey of Talgarth, said. Amendments Nos. 434A and 434B were debated at some length in Committee in the other place. They would mean that the National Assembly for Wales could only legislate on plans about the development and use of land in Wales which had been prepared by Welsh Ministers and not those by local planning authorities. The noble Earl, Lord Cathcart, raised concerns that the case had not been made to transfer powers from this place to the National Assembly for Wales in relation to plans prepared by Welsh local authorities. I think that the phrase used in the other place was that Welsh Ministers were somehow seeking to centralise and hoover up power and thus reduce the discretion of Welsh local planning authorities. The whole point of this is that the Welsh Assembly Government are committed to a plan-led system. Its distinctive development plan system is still in its infancy, with local development plans as introduced in the Planning and Compulsory Act 2004 forming the cornerstone of the land-use system in Wales. For that system to work effectively, national level plans, such as the Wales spatial plan and local development plan, need to work coherently with each other, just as they do in England. While local planning authorities must have regard to the Wales spatial plan when preparing their local development plan, the National Assembly for Wales is currently unable to make changes that it feels would best serve the distinctive planning system now being established in Wales. That is of course what the Bill seeks to do. The noble Earl, Lord Cathcart, proposes that the National Assembly for Wales would have framework powers in relation to plans made by Welsh Ministers but not for this other vital part of the land-use plan system—local development plans. Allowing the Assembly to operate in relation to Welsh Ministers but not local planning authorities is a recipe for fragmentation and dysfunction. These amendments would develop an incoherent and inconsistent approach between the two tiers of plan-making in Wales. Plans made by Welsh Ministers that could be applied at national levels would not flow down to the local level. The priorities would not be reflected through the Welsh planning system. This Chamber would not want that. We are very aware of the importance of a coherent and integrated plan-making system. Certainly, it would not be acceptable for the National Assembly for Wales. Clause 195 has a compelling purpose. It gives the Assembly the tools necessary to manage and oversee the planning system in Wales, which is, quite rightly, a devolved matter. It would enable the Assembly to prescribe what a local development plan must set out, the matters to which local planning authorities must have regard when preparing local development plans, the preparation requirements, including consultation, the independent examination of the plan, and powers for the Welsh Minister to intervene if a plan is considered unsatisfactory. Those are very important plans at this formative stage of land-use planning at a local level in Wales. The powers will allow the Assembly to continue, update and adapt the land-use plan system in Wales; that includes the local develop plan and its relationship with the Wales spatial plan. The Welsh Local Government Association supports these framework powers. I hope that the noble Earl, Lord Cathcart, will feel that there are indeed compelling reasons why the clause is in the Bill and he will be able to withdraw his amendment.