UK Parliament / Open data

Banking (Special Provisions) Bill

Debate on bills and Committee of the Whole House (HC) on Tuesday, 19 February 2008, in the House of Commons, led by Lord Darling of Roulanish. The answering member was George Osborne.
Banking (Special Provisions) Bill. Business of the House motion on proceedings on Second Reading, in Committee, on Report and Third reading. Agreed to on division (291 votes to 223). Second reading debate. Agreed to on division (367 votes to 164) and committed to a Committee of the Whole House. Money resolution agreed to on question. Ways and means resolution agreed to on question. Committee stage. Amendment 13 negatived on division (299 votes to 222). Amendment 10 negatived on division (302 votes to 222). Amendment 12A negatived on division (351 votes to 169). Report stage. Third reading debate. Agreed to on division (293 votes to 167).

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

472 c157-298 

Session

2007-08

Department

Treasury

Legislative stage

Committee stage, Third reading, Report stage and Second reading

Procedure

Timetabling of bills
Business motions
Money resolutions
Ways and means resolutions

Chamber / Committee

House of Commons chamber

Related items

Banking (Special Provisions) Bill. (Explanatory Notes Bill 73-EN published).
Tuesday, 19 February 2008
Bills
House of Commons
The run on the Rock.Treasury Select Committee fifth report in 2 volumes with proceedings, evidence (HC 999 i-iv 2006-07 not printed separately) and appendices.
Thursday, 24 January 2008
Parliamentary committees
House of Commons

Proceeding contributions

Speaker | 472 c189 (Link to this contribution) Order. Hon. Members may have noticed that Mr. Speaker has placed a 10-minute limit on Back-Bench spe...
Vincent Cable | 472 c193 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman is one step ahead of me on that. We can continue to debate the argument th...

Show all contributions (317)
John Redwood | 472 c193 (Link to this contribution) Should we welcome the idea that taxpayers' money could help to pay Michael Owen's salary through the...
Vincent Cable | 472 c192 (Link to this contribution) I made it clear yesterday that we support the decision and the Bill, and I fully understand the Gove...
Lord McFall of Alcluith | 472 c192 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman had read the newspapers yesterday, he would have seen that although the top he...
Jonathan Djanogly | 472 c192 (Link to this contribution) I thank the right hon. Gentleman for giving way. He said that he believes that nationalisation is in...
Lord McFall of Alcluith | 472 c189-90 (Link to this contribution) I am pleased to contribute to the debate on behalf of the Treasury Committee; our report, ““The run ...
George Osborne | 472 c188-9 (Link to this contribution) That is a possibility, and it has been raised with me by various people in the City. It is another r...
Jim Cousins | 472 c197 (Link to this contribution) At least the hon. Gentleman has clearly stated what was implicit, although not so clear, in the comm...
Lord Maples | 472 c197 (Link to this contribution) I completely understand the hon. Gentleman's situation with his constituency; in his position, I mig...
John Redwood | 472 c197 (Link to this contribution) As a local Member for the business, has the hon. Gentleman been given any assurances by the Chancell...
Jim Cousins | 472 c197 (Link to this contribution) The House is confronted this afternoon with a new and rather interesting situation. In front of the ...
Vincent Cable | 472 c193-6 (Link to this contribution) I shall alight upon it and then decide whether I approve of it in principle. May I return to the ce...
Jim Cousins | 472 c197 (Link to this contribution) I hope that the hon. Gentleman will understand my situation.
William Cash | 472 c193 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman might not know this, but in the draft order to which my hon. Friend the Member fo...
William Cash | 472 c193 (Link to this contribution) I am talking about a specific provision, which the hon. Gentleman will doubtless alight upon when he...
Vincent Cable | 472 c193 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has an eye for legal detail, but I am not clear about whether he is talking about...
George Osborne | 472 c187 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman should pay attention to what Mr. Sandler and the Chancellor are saying in b...
William Cash | 472 c187 (Link to this contribution) Has my hon. Friend noticed the consequential and supplementary provisions, which, under a Treasury o...
John Hemming | 472 c184 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps the hon. Gentleman accepts that the difficulty is that, as soon as the Government underwrote...
George Osborne | 472 c184 (Link to this contribution) I think that my hon. Friend's interpretation of clause 10 is right. When we went through the technic...
Gavin Strang | 472 c186 (Link to this contribution) Is there not a slight contradiction between that point and the hon. Gentleman's earlier statement, w...
George Osborne | 472 c186 (Link to this contribution) I am not in favour of nationalisation, full stop. What I am pointing out is that it will take a long...
George Osborne | 472 c185 (Link to this contribution) I give way to one of the critics of nationalisation.
John Greenway | 472 c188 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend knows from my interventions yesterday and today that I very much share his concerns. ...
George Osborne | 472 c187 (Link to this contribution) Royal Mail operates under a regulatory regime specifically designed to consider its impact on privat...
Rob Marris | 472 c187 (Link to this contribution) I know what the hon. Gentleman says about unfair competition and the possibility of destabilising ot...
George Osborne | 472 c187 (Link to this contribution) I know that they are not, but we did try to change that. We have tabled an amendment, with the supp...
George Osborne | 472 c187 (Link to this contribution) I will give way again to the hon. Gentleman, even though he keeps referring me to the Standards and ...
Lord Beamish | 472 c187 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
George Osborne | 472 c188 (Link to this contribution) First, they operate under a proper, statutory regulatory regime. That will not be the case with Nort...
Lord Beamish | 472 c188 (Link to this contribution) I missed you but got your leader! Following on from the question put by my hon. Friend the Member f...
George Osborne | 472 c187 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is persistent in making the point that clause 2 introduces general powers for the Gov...
George Osborne | 472 c183-4 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right in the sense that we have not heard anything from the Chancellor about the g...
William Cash | 472 c184 (Link to this contribution) I do not know whether my hon. Friend will reach clause 10, which is entitled ““Tax consequences””, b...
George Osborne | 472 c184 (Link to this contribution) As my hon. Friend is a very successful solicitor, I am sure that he did not need to declare an inter...
Jonathan Djanogly | 472 c184 (Link to this contribution) Would my hon. Friend agree that the fees incurred so far would be dwarfed by the litigation fees tha...
George Osborne | 472 c184 (Link to this contribution) I shall give way first to my hon. Friend the Member for Huntingdon (Mr. Djanogly).
George Osborne | 472 c182 (Link to this contribution) I know that the hon. Gentleman is an expert on giving mortgages to people who cannot get them throug...
George Osborne | 472 c180-1 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker—[Interruption.] The hon. Member for Blyth Valley (Mr. Campbell) should...
Frank Dobson | 472 c181 (Link to this contribution) Would it be the policy of the Conservative party to support a court action by the hedge funds to get...
George Osborne | 472 c181 (Link to this contribution) I give way to the right hon. Gentleman, who probably remembers the British Leyland Act.
Edward Leigh | 472 c182 (Link to this contribution) Will not the courts take the view, sadly, that the shares have an obvious value, which is the value ...
George Osborne | 472 c181 (Link to this contribution) I certainly would not support such a court action. I personally believe, as indeed the Chancellor be...
Geoffrey Robinson | 472 c182 (Link to this contribution) The whole House will be pleased that the hon. Gentleman has put a value of precisely zero pounds ste...
George Osborne | 472 c182 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right. A whole range of different sums could be agreed on by the independent value...
Lord Beamish | 472 c182 (Link to this contribution) I am listening closely to the hon. Gentleman. Is he saying to those small shareholders in the north-...
George Osborne | 472 c182-3 (Link to this contribution) I am saying that I agree with the hon. Gentleman's Chancellor of the Exchequer that the value of tho...
Lord Darling of Roulanish | 472 c180 (Link to this contribution) I do not think that I have had any discussions with Mr. Thompson. In relation to the Northern Rock b...
Lord Swire | 472 c180 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Chancellor for giving way again. What discussions did he have at the time with ...
Lord Darling of Roulanish | 472 c180 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right. Had the Government not agreed to the Bank of England intervention last Sept...
Lord Darling of Roulanish | 472 c179 (Link to this contribution) That might be difficult. Shareholders are shareholders, and it is difficult to discriminate between ...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 472 c179 (Link to this contribution) Clause 9(7), dealing with provisions for compensation, includes"““power to make different provision ...
Lord Darling of Roulanish | 472 c179 (Link to this contribution) I do not know on what basis the hon. Gentleman can make that claim. The board's position last Septem...
Christopher Chope | 472 c179 (Link to this contribution) Does the Chancellor accept that if the board of Northern Rock had known the terms on which the Gover...
Lord Darling of Roulanish | 472 c180 (Link to this contribution) I shall not give way; I have done so fairly generously. I hope that I have outlined to the House th...
Lord Brady of Altrincham | 472 c178 (Link to this contribution) The Chancellor makes the important point about achieving fairness for the taxpayer. Obviously that w...
Lord Darling of Roulanish | 472 c178 (Link to this contribution) I am not giving way; I do not know how to put it more clearly. I want to turn to the question of com...
Lord Darling of Roulanish | 472 c178-9 (Link to this contribution) Again, much depends on the business plan that is to be prepared. As the business plan progresses, th...
Lord Darling of Roulanish | 472 c178 (Link to this contribution) The Government have received all sorts of advice on the matter. As I said at the weekend, I will con...
Lord Bellingham | 472 c178 (Link to this contribution) Will the Chancellor give way before he moves on?
Lord Darling of Roulanish | 472 c178 (Link to this contribution) No, I am going to discuss compensation, because hon. Members have asked about it.
Greg Clark | 472 c178 (Link to this contribution) As we now know that the cost of the advice received by the Government is likely to fall on the taxpa...
Lord Darling of Roulanish | 472 c178 (Link to this contribution) If it is a question on my previous point, I am happy to answer it before I go on to compensation.
Stephen Dorrell | 472 c176 (Link to this contribution) The Chancellor has laid great stress on the fact that the circumstances have to be exceptional to sa...
Lord Darling of Roulanish | 472 c176-7 (Link to this contribution) I am not immediately acquainted with the rules and procedures of the House of Commons back in 1971. ...
Lord Darling of Roulanish | 472 c176 (Link to this contribution) I will give way to the hon. Member for Hexham (Mr. Atkinson) and then I will make some progress. I m...
Peter Atkinson | 472 c176 (Link to this contribution) Can the Chancellor explain something to me? Why was it not possible to introduce a one-clause Bill b...
Lord Swire | 472 c177 (Link to this contribution) Is the Chancellor exposing the Government to a legal challenge by existing shareholders if the compe...
Lord Darling of Roulanish | 472 c177 (Link to this contribution) I will come to compensation shortly, but first I will conclude my point about how the Bill is struct...
Lord Darling of Roulanish | 472 c177 (Link to this contribution) I am going to make some progress and then I will take some further interventions. Clauses 3 and 6 w...
Doug Henderson | 472 c174 (Link to this contribution) The whole House will appreciate that there is much less uncertainty in the city of Newcastle today t...
Lord Darling of Roulanish | 472 c174 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right to ensure that we keep the concerns of people employed by Northern Rock at t...
Jim Cousins | 472 c174 (Link to this contribution) I want to pursue the point raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Newcastle upon Tyne, North (Mr. H...
Lord Darling of Roulanish | 472 c174-5 (Link to this contribution) We will have to see what he proposes and why, but one hurdle to be overcome is the fact that whateve...
Edward Leigh | 472 c175-6 (Link to this contribution) The Chancellor may recall that when I informed him that the Comptroller and Auditor General was inst...
Lord Darling of Roulanish | 472 c176 (Link to this contribution) As I think I also said to the hon. Gentleman, and if I did not I will say it now, when we know the t...
Lord Darling of Roulanish | 472 c176 (Link to this contribution) I would like to finish answering the first question before I go on to the next one, and I do not thi...
Lord Darling of Roulanish | 472 c176 (Link to this contribution) I will give way to the right hon. Gentleman and then I will make some progress.
Stewart Hosie | 472 c172 (Link to this contribution) The Chancellor makes the point about consultation on changes to the banking regulatory framework gen...
Lord Darling of Roulanish | 472 c172 (Link to this contribution) If I had included in this Bill legislation to amend the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000, it ...
William Cash | 472 c172 (Link to this contribution) Will the Chancellor deny that in clause 2 there is an attempt to override challenge in the courts? T...
Lord Darling of Roulanish | 472 c172 (Link to this contribution) No, I do not. The hon. Member for Runnymede and Weybridge also made the point that the Government a...
John Greenway | 472 c173 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Chancellor for giving way, and I am particularly grateful that he is addressing...
Lord Darling of Roulanish | 472 c174 (Link to this contribution) I appreciate the hon. Gentleman's point. That is a concern that we need to address. I met the chief ...
Lord Darling of Roulanish | 472 c173 (Link to this contribution) Let me say what I have to say about competition, and we will then see what the hon. Gentleman has to...
Philip Dunne | 472 c172 (Link to this contribution) The Chancellor has just referred to the consultation document that he published only last month, whi...
Lord Darling of Roulanish | 472 c172-3 (Link to this contribution) It might have been tempting to have a Bill that simply had one clause saying, ““Let's nationalise No...
Gwyneth Dunwoody | 472 c164-5 (Link to this contribution) Let me make it quite clear that I approve wholly of the Bill. I support the principle and the politi...
John Redwood | 472 c165 (Link to this contribution) I rise to speak because I see a disturbing trend: the way in which this legislation is being handled...
William Cash | 472 c166 (Link to this contribution) I endorse what my hon. Friend the Member for Aldridge-Brownhills (Mr. Shepherd) and my right hon. Fr...
Lord Darling of Roulanish | 472 c171 (Link to this contribution) I will, as I usually do, give way to as many Members as possible, but because this is a timetabled d...
John Redwood | 472 c171 (Link to this contribution) Can the Chancellor give us an indication of how long it will take to value the bank and therefore ho...
Lord Darling of Roulanish | 472 c171 (Link to this contribution) If the Bill is approved, the necessary Order will be laid to make that transfer. As I shall say when...
Yvette Cooper | 472 c166-7 (Link to this contribution) Let me respond briefly to the points that have been raised, which I have listened to very carefully....
Speaker | 472 c171 (Link to this contribution) Order. Hon. Members must not shout.
Lord Darling of Roulanish | 472 c171 (Link to this contribution) Shouting is all they are good for at the moment: they certainly have not come up with any good ideas...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 472 c162 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a good point. I am sure that he will elaborate on it in the debate. We do not ...
William Cash | 472 c161 (Link to this contribution) Has my hon. Friend noticed that clause 2 contains a specific provision to exclude the courts when it...
Richard Shepherd | 472 c163-4 (Link to this contribution) I support my hon. Friend the Member for Runnymede and Weybridge (Mr. Hammond) and some of the commen...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 472 c160-1 (Link to this contribution) Time is limited, or at least it will be if this motion is passed, and I do not want to turn the deba...
Yvette Cooper | 472 c157-60 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move,"That the following provisions shall apply to the Banking (Special Provisions) Bill:""...
Speaker | 472 c287 (Link to this contribution) I have no power to compel the appearance of a Minister at the Dispatch Box, but it is always possibl...
Philip Dunne | 472 c292 (Link to this contribution) I am pleased that the Chief Secretary is back in her place to hear the final observations. I should ...
Greg Hands | 472 c291-2 (Link to this contribution) I shall be very brief; I have only a few points to make. First, I would like to reinforce what many...
Philip Dunne | 472 c292-3 (Link to this contribution) The Chief Secretary shakes her head, so I hope that she will take the opportunity to clarify the mat...
Philip Dunne | 472 c289 (Link to this contribution) I should like to endorse what my hon. Friend has said about Ron Sandler, whom I also know of old. As...
John Greenway | 472 c287-8 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the opportunity to contribute to the Third Reading debate. I had hoped to say some...
William Cash | 472 c289-91 (Link to this contribution) My problem with the Bill is simple: it is a disgraceful, shambolic exercise that has been brought th...
John Greenway | 472 c289 (Link to this contribution) That is true, but one of the reasons why Mr. Sandler was successful in the Lloyd's reconstruction an...
Lord Beith | 472 c293 (Link to this contribution) Would the hon. Gentleman be prepared to take an intervention from the Chief Secretary or to allow a ...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 472 c286 (Link to this contribution) I should like to challenge the hon. Gentleman's logic. He says that, in administration, the administ...
Lord Maples | 472 c285 (Link to this contribution) The Government turned down the only decent offer that they received. Lloyds bank was prepared to buy...
Rob Marris | 472 c285 (Link to this contribution) I support the Bill. I have to say that some right hon. and hon. Members have rather overlooked the f...
Vincent Cable | 472 c284 (Link to this contribution) I apologise if I have contributed to the raggedness of the discussion, but important issues have bee...
Speaker | 472 c284 (Link to this contribution) Order. It would be unfortunate if the debate were to become ragged at this hour, bearing in mind the...
Gerald Howarth | 472 c283 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. It is perfectly apparent that a key part of this nationalis...
Rob Marris | 472 c286-7 (Link to this contribution) No, of course it is not the case. As ever, the hon. Gentleman is trying to have it both ways. People...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 472 c287 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. It is clear from the debate that has taken place over the p...
Diane Abbott | 472 c282 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that when the Government are considering future legislation they should al...
Vincent Cable | 472 c282 (Link to this contribution) I had not intended to speak at length at all, having made my points, but I am prompted to by the imp...
John McDonnell | 472 c282 (Link to this contribution) I hope that that is one issue that the Treasury Committee will come back to at some future stage whe...
Speaker | 472 c283 (Link to this contribution) Order. That was a very generous intervention.
Philip Dunne | 472 c282-3 (Link to this contribution) If I may, I want to see if I can help the hon. Gentleman to understand the true implications of Gran...
Lord Maples | 472 c283 (Link to this contribution) The problem is actually worse than the hon. Gentleman has described, as Granite's loan-to-value rati...
Vincent Cable | 472 c283 (Link to this contribution) I am trying to absorb the hon. Gentleman's analysis, and I hope that he will repeat it at greater le...
Vincent Cable | 472 c283 (Link to this contribution) We are all getting a rapid education. Perhaps the hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington can tell us m...
John McDonnell | 472 c283 (Link to this contribution) I may not have explained the point that I was trying to make well enough. My view is that the motiva...
Vincent Cable | 472 c283 (Link to this contribution) These are big questions, and we are not getting any answers. I see that the Minister has fled the Ch...
Yvette Cooper | 472 c277 (Link to this contribution) Opposition Members may say that they are not in favour of a fire sale of the assets, but that would ...
Greg Hands | 472 c277 (Link to this contribution) May I return the Chief Secretary to something else that she said earlier? She said that she opposed ...
Yvette Cooper | 472 c277-8 (Link to this contribution) Members in all parts of the House should recognise the importance of protecting the taxpayers' inter...
Speaker | 472 c277 (Link to this contribution) Order. I remind all Members that this is a Third Reading debate, and we are discussing the content o...
Lord Beith | 472 c281 (Link to this contribution) It should not go without mention that one feature of the arrangement was a purported benefit to a ch...
John McDonnell | 472 c281-2 (Link to this contribution) I understand the issue that the right hon. Gentleman raises, and I have seen reports about it. It is...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 472 c279-81 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a good point, because at least one clause will be privileged and thus will not ...
John McDonnell | 472 c281 (Link to this contribution) I first wish to make it clear that I welcome the Bill. In fact, with the greatest respect to the hon...
Philip Dunne | 472 c293-4 (Link to this contribution) Indeed. The quality of the assets in Granite is higher than the quality of the assets remaining in N...
Lord Clarke of Nottingham | 472 c294-5 (Link to this contribution) Time will not permit me to repeat the points that I made earlier, but they remain valid. The more t...
Philip Dunne | 472 c293 (Link to this contribution) That is about as clear as mud. Granite has the contractual ability to suck assets out of Northern Ro...
Philip Dunne | 472 c293 (Link to this contribution) The Chief Secretary is more than welcome to correct the impression if it is wrong.
Yvette Cooper | 472 c293 (Link to this contribution) We have made the position on Granite clear. We said throughout Second Reading that it is a separate ...
Yvette Cooper | 472 c275 (Link to this contribution) Detailed discussions with the European Commissioner will need to take place and they are likely to c...
Keith Vaz | 472 c275-6 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend is absolutely right and I would like to remind her of what happened to BCCI 17 ...
Yvette Cooper | 472 c275 (Link to this contribution) Conservative Members need to understand that they are effectively arguing for Northern Rock to go un...
Yvette Cooper | 472 c276 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend, who has greater expertise in this area than me—details of the BCCI case are be...
John McDonnell | 472 c276 (Link to this contribution) I want to follow on from a point raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Wolverhampton, South-West (...
Yvette Cooper | 472 c276 (Link to this contribution) I am conscious of the time, and of the fact that other Members wish to speak in the debate. I will g...
Yvette Cooper | 472 c276 (Link to this contribution) We had this discussion earlier, on Second Reading. This is a Third Reading debate. [Interruption.]
Yvette Cooper | 472 c276 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I should clarify that there are two different points. Granite is part of the funding mechani...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 472 c277 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to press the Chief Secretary on this point, but it is important. The Granite entities are...
Yvette Cooper | 472 c277 (Link to this contribution) I understand that Granite was set up on a trust basis. I shall be happy to give the hon. Gentleman f...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 472 c276 (Link to this contribution) The Chief Secretary just said something about the ownership of Granite. Will she make clear to us wh...
Yvette Cooper | 472 c277 (Link to this contribution) Granite is and has always been a separate legal entity. What we are taking into temporary public own...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 472 c267 (Link to this contribution) I ask the Serjeant at Arms to investigate the delay in the No Lobby.
Yvette Cooper | 472 c272 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time. I thank hon. Members for the speedy consid...
Speaker | 472 c272 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for his point of order. It is not a matter for the Chair, but it will be ...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 472 c267 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady is right that the powers are time-limited, with a year's life. They are quite specific...
Lord Swire | 472 c273 (Link to this contribution) Have the Government made any calculation of what would happen if the business plan were to shrink th...
Yvette Cooper | 472 c272-3 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman had been here earlier, he would know that we have discussed the reasons for br...
Colin Breed | 472 c272 (Link to this contribution) Will the Chief Secretary confirm that throughout the period since Northern Rock fell into problems t...
Yvette Cooper | 472 c273 (Link to this contribution) We have made clear our objectives throughout the process: to ensure the financial stability of the b...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 472 c273 (Link to this contribution) The Chief Secretary has said that it is important for Northern Rock and its employees and shareholde...
William Cash | 472 c274 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister answer my question?
Yvette Cooper | 472 c274 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman must be quite mortified that we are saying that the clear safeguards that will be...
William Cash | 472 c274 (Link to this contribution) The Minister has just said that it will be necessary to comply with a range of provisions, including...
Yvette Cooper | 472 c273 (Link to this contribution) Ron Sandler is assessing what the options and future course of the business should be. Hon. Members ...
Peter Bone | 472 c275 (Link to this contribution) Does the Minister have a plan B if the current arm's length business plan—though she does not know w...
Yvette Cooper | 472 c274-5 (Link to this contribution) I have now had questions from both my hon. Friend and the hon. Member for Stone (Mr. Cash) about tha...
Rob Marris | 472 c274 (Link to this contribution) Northern Rock got into difficulty because it had a rubbish business model. Sticking with clause 12, ...
Yvette Cooper | 472 c274 (Link to this contribution) I will give way to my hon. Friend.
Lord Clarke of Nottingham | 472 c244 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that they have, but they are not sharing it with us at the moment. I need to be reminded w...
Greg Hands | 472 c244 (Link to this contribution) Did my right hon. Friend hear Professor Alan Riley, one of Britain's foremost experts on state aid, ...
Lord Clarke of Nottingham | 472 c244-5 (Link to this contribution) I heard the speeches on that on Second Reading. I quite agree; risk management seems to me to be wha...
Greg Hands | 472 c244 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. and learned Friend is making a strong point about the need for the strategic objective...
Lord Clarke of Nottingham | 472 c243 (Link to this contribution) I doubt it. It is the Treasury's duty to all of us to have some strategic objectives and to tell Par...
Jim Cousins | 472 c243 (Link to this contribution) Has it occurred to the right hon. and learned Gentleman that the pressures from the European Commiss...
Lord Clarke of Nottingham | 472 c243-4 (Link to this contribution) I will in a second, but I do not want to go on too long. Let me just put the other side of the equat...
Greg Hands | 472 c243 (Link to this contribution) Will my right hon. and learned Friend give way?
Diane Abbott | 472 c245 (Link to this contribution) It is not unreasonable that more information should be available about the Government's strategic ob...
Yvette Cooper | 472 c245-6 (Link to this contribution) I understand the spirit of the amendment. I shall first address what it would do and why I think tha...
Mark Hoban | 472 c238-9 (Link to this contribution) We want on paper, in black and white, a clear division of responsibility, not just warm words spoken...
Dari Taylor | 472 c238 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful, as I was disappointed not to be able to speak on Second Reading. I was in and out of ...
Mark Hoban | 472 c238 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady looks desperate to intervene again, so I shall give way to her.
Mark Hoban | 472 c238 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady should remember that not long after the Chancellor made that statement to the House he...
Dari Taylor | 472 c238 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman think that the Chancellor was not telling the House the truth yesterday? He ...
Mark Hoban | 472 c237 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend makes an important point. There is a lack of clarity in the way in which the Go...
Lord Clarke of Nottingham | 472 c241-3 (Link to this contribution) I strongly support amendment No. 14, and the arguments put forward by my hon. Friend the Member for ...
Rob Marris | 472 c239-40 (Link to this contribution) Amendment No. 14 has two limbs. The first is in the fourth line, where it mentions"““provisions sett...
Vincent Cable | 472 c240-1 (Link to this contribution) I am normally sympathetic to the interventions of the hon. Member for Wolverhampton, South-West (Rob...
Lord Clarke of Nottingham | 472 c248 (Link to this contribution) The Minister keeps saying that of course there can be no question of going back to the business mode...
Yvette Cooper | 472 c248-9 (Link to this contribution) Once again, I point out that the approach in the business plan will need to be compliant with the ne...
Mark Hoban | 472 c249-50 (Link to this contribution) It almost beggars belief that the Minister made those comments about what is going to happen to Nort...
Michael Fallon | 472 c253-4 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment No. 1, in page 2, line 2, leave out ““Treasury consider”” and insert ““Bank ...
Yvette Cooper | 472 c254 (Link to this contribution) The powers in the Bill to transfer the shares or business of a deposit-taker are exercisable only fo...
Michael Fallon | 472 c255 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for the consideration that she has given to the amendment. I accept he...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 472 c255-6 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment No. 10, in page 2, line 40, leave out 'year' and insert 'month'. The amendm...
Vincent Cable | 472 c256-7 (Link to this contribution) I did not subscribe to the amendment originally, as its objective was not clear. I suspected initial...
Yvette Cooper | 472 c257 (Link to this contribution) The Bill was deliberately designed to impose constraints. Clause 2(2) specifies some high-level test...
Greg Hands | 472 c257 (Link to this contribution) I am not sure that the right hon. Lady gives us a lot of confidence when she says that the Bill coul...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 472 c246 (Link to this contribution) We know that for the past five months the Government's preference has been to sell the business as a...
Yvette Cooper | 472 c246-7 (Link to this contribution) I appreciate the point that the right hon. and learned Gentleman is making, but he is asking questio...
David Howarth | 472 c247 (Link to this contribution) The problem with the Chief Secretary's argument is that the two objectives—financial stability on th...
Yvette Cooper | 472 c246 (Link to this contribution) As we have said many times, the Government carried out appropriate contingency planning, and it was ...
Lord Clarke of Nottingham | 472 c246 (Link to this contribution) I entirely agree that the new management should be given time to look at the books and that they mus...
Yvette Cooper | 472 c248 (Link to this contribution) I cannot confirm the precise timing; I also do not know the precise timing of the debate on the orde...
Diane Abbott | 472 c248 (Link to this contribution) Earlier, my right hon. Friend said that until Ministers had a business plan, they would be unable to...
Yvette Cooper | 472 c247-8 (Link to this contribution) The action that we have taken so far has made clear the priority that we give to the financial stabi...
Mark Hoban | 472 c248 (Link to this contribution) May I probe the Chief Secretary a bit more on the framework document and the timing of its publicati...
Yvette Cooper | 472 c248 (Link to this contribution) With respect, Ron Sandler and his team are considering the nature of the assets and liabilities and ...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 472 c265 (Link to this contribution) I may have confused the hon. Gentleman by speaking about clause 11, which introduces lender of last ...
Vincent Cable | 472 c265 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for that correction. That is not the point that I wish to address; I am a...
Angela Eagle | 472 c265 (Link to this contribution) Clause 6 gives the Treasury power to transfer property rights and liabilities of deposit takers when...
Peter Bone | 472 c266 (Link to this contribution) Does the Minister think that there is a danger that including building societies will send markets t...
Angela Eagle | 472 c267 (Link to this contribution) I do not want the hon. Gentleman to caricature my position too much. This is not a wide-ranging prov...
Angela Eagle | 472 c266 (Link to this contribution) I did not say that there is no risk; there is risk all around at the moment, given what is happening...
Mark Field | 472 c266 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister tell us what the lender of last resort arrangements are for building societies, an...
Angela Eagle | 472 c266 (Link to this contribution) That is a debate that would be more accurately held under clause 11 when we come to those specific p...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 472 c266-7 (Link to this contribution) No, I am afraid I shall have to disappoint the hon. Lady. Her explanation is not good enough. The le...
Jim Cousins | 472 c258 (Link to this contribution) Will my right hon. Friend deal with the point of the hon. Member for Twickenham (Dr. Cable)? To turn...
Yvette Cooper | 472 c258 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right that clause 11 allows for the Bank of England to be able to provide greater ...
Yvette Cooper | 472 c257-8 (Link to this contribution) It is hardly market sensitive: we have said this repeatedly, and I am merely describing what the sco...
Vincent Cable | 472 c264-5 (Link to this contribution) I have agreed with all the amendments tabled so far by the Conservatives as ways of strengthening th...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 472 c259 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Chief Secretary, but I think she will find—I am sure that she will receive a no...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 472 c263-4 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment No. 12A, in page 5, line 36, at end insert—"'(1A) No order under subsection ...
Yvette Cooper | 472 c259 (Link to this contribution) Simply to clarify, may I say that we expect to introduce the order—we have done so in draft—dealing ...
Yvette Cooper | 472 c258 (Link to this contribution) I think that that is right as things stand, but we would expect this issue to be dealt with more wid...
Doug Henderson | 472 c202-3 (Link to this contribution) There really is only one issue before the House this evening, and that is the question whether natio...
Stephen Dorrell | 472 c201 (Link to this contribution) It is a question of what the objectives are during an avowedly transitional stage. I do not want to ...
John Hemming | 472 c200 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman is right that there is no certainty about the situation, but does he accept...
Stephen Dorrell | 472 c199-200 (Link to this contribution) The matters that I want to cover in my remarks follow very directly from the comments made by the ho...
John Hemming | 472 c201 (Link to this contribution) Does the right hon. Gentleman accept that the business model that did not work was not covering the ...
Stephen Dorrell | 472 c200-1 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes a different point, if I may say so. I agree that there is a benefit, if we ...
John Hemming | 472 c198 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Jim Cousins | 472 c198 (Link to this contribution) No, I have had no such assurance; nor, at this stage, would I necessarily look for one. We have had ...
Speaker | 472 c199 (Link to this contribution) Order. I call Mr. Stephen Dorrell.
Jim Cousins | 472 c198-9 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry; I cannot give way. I must also take issue with my right hon. Friend the Member for West...
John Redwood | 472 c207 (Link to this contribution) Was it not an international and global problem and was not the regulatory failure the failure of the...
Lord Lilley | 472 c205-7 (Link to this contribution) The Government spent five months or more in prevarication before putting a Bill before the House. In...
Doug Henderson | 472 c204-5 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry; I cannot give way any more. The business plan is the key issue. We as politicians have ...
Stewart Hosie | 472 c204 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Doug Henderson | 472 c203-4 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend. It is not just in the north that they will make no progress; they w...
Andrew Love | 472 c203 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend asked what the Conservatives propose. They propose the direct loss of 5,000 jobs in N...
Doug Henderson | 472 c203 (Link to this contribution) I am taking up other people's time if I give way, but I will do so.
Doug Henderson | 472 c203 (Link to this contribution) I know what I am voting for tonight, and I think that my constituents will know, but even after the ...
George Osborne | 472 c203 (Link to this contribution) I am not sure whether the hon. Gentleman is aware that what he will vote for tonight could lead to v...
Frank Dobson | 472 c209-10 (Link to this contribution) No, I shall not. Who else's concern should we fear, according to the Tories? Should we fear the con...
Lord Maples | 472 c209 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
Frank Dobson | 472 c210 (Link to this contribution) No, I really need to get on. The Government have had to act to preserve the integrity of the financ...
Rob Marris | 472 c210 (Link to this contribution) Will my right hon. Friend give way?
Frank Dobson | 472 c208 (Link to this contribution) I support the Bill because there is clearly no sensible alternative. I shall address the principal T...
Lord Lilley | 472 c207-8 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that my right hon. Friend is right, but it was possible to stand out against that, as the ...
Frank Dobson | 472 c208-9 (Link to this contribution) That may be the case. It brings to mind the time of the Oxford martyrs, when Cranmer, Latimer and Ri...
Lord Beamish | 472 c208 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend agree that the chairman's only qualification for his job and salary of som...
Frank Dobson | 472 c209 (Link to this contribution) No, I have given way already. Goldman Sachs, which has been advising the Government, says that it i...
Lord Maples | 472 c209 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
Rob Marris | 472 c214 (Link to this contribution) Would my hon. Friend agree that just one measure of the acceptance of the nationalisation of Norther...
Lord Maples | 472 c212 (Link to this contribution) It has a cash flow from mortgage repayments and interest payments. Serious consideration should have...
John Hemming | 472 c212 (Link to this contribution) Given the expensive loans from the Bank of England and the high rates of interest that are being pai...
Lord Maples | 472 c210-2 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Member for Holborn and St. Pancras (Frank Dobson) should applaud all the losses, beca...
Phil Wilson | 472 c214 (Link to this contribution) Speaking as a north-eastern MP, I believe that, on Northern Rock, the Government have taken the hard...
Speaker | 472 c214 (Link to this contribution) The time remaining for this debate is somewhat limited, and I can see a number of Members hoping to ...
Jim Cousins | 472 c212-3 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman acknowledge that almost half the assets of Northern Rock are in a securitise...
Yvette Cooper | 472 c227-8 (Link to this contribution) In general this has been a thoughtful debate, to which wide-ranging contributions have been made. M...
Stewart Hosie | 472 c221-2 (Link to this contribution) I would like to make a couple of preliminary remarks. The first is that the Bill is intended to allo...
Lord Risby | 472 c222-3 (Link to this contribution) This is called the Banking (Special Provisions) Bill, but it should really be called the Banking (Pi...
Philip Dunne | 472 c223-4 (Link to this contribution) The reason we are here today is that, uniquely among any of the 192 countries in the world affected ...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 472 c225-6 (Link to this contribution) At the end of this debate, perhaps we could take a few moments to remind ourselves why we are here. ...
Phil Wilson | 472 c215 (Link to this contribution) I am just coming to the end. If the Opposition had their way, there would be no bank and no jobs. W...
John Redwood | 472 c215-7 (Link to this contribution) I have declared my interests in the register. I want to see this business survive, recover and flou...
Mark Todd | 472 c217-9 (Link to this contribution) I support the Bill, but with considerable concerns. For me, the measure is emphatically the least ba...
Michael Fallon | 472 c219-20 (Link to this contribution) That was easily the most realistic speech that we have heard from the Government Benches in this deb...
Rob Marris | 472 c226 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 472 c226-7 (Link to this contribution) No, I will not; I must complete my remarks. So is it inevitable? No, it is not. There is a better w...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 472 c236 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss amendment No. 14, line 16, at end insert 'and"(ii) the Tr...
Mark Hoban | 472 c236-7 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Member for South Derbyshire (Mr. Todd) highlighted in his Second Reading speech the problem...
Mark Hoban | 472 c236 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment No. 13, page 1, line 14, after 'if (and only if)'—insert '(i)'.
Yvette Cooper | 472 c229-30 (Link to this contribution) I must make progress if I am to deal with all the points that have been made. No one expects Northe...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 472 c236 (Link to this contribution) I must inform the Committee that an informal list of proposed amendments is available from the Vote ...
Greg Hands | 472 c228 (Link to this contribution) Will the Chief Secretary give way?
Yvette Cooper | 472 c228-9 (Link to this contribution) I want to make some progress, as I have only a short time in which to speak. I shall be happy to tak...
Lord Deben | 472 c237 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that before the framework is laid out the Government should give an absolu...
Lord McFall of Alcluith | 472 c190-2 (Link to this contribution) I have only eight minutes left, and I want to put my views on record. If I have time at the end of m...
Jim Cousins | 472 c185 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I will have an opportunity to deal with that point later. The hon. Gentleman has implicitly...
Lord Beamish | 472 c179 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend will be aware that many of the small shareholders are former employees of North...
Lord Darling of Roulanish | 472 c171 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time. As the House knows, the powers in this Bill...
Simon Hughes | 472 c162-3 (Link to this contribution) As the House knows, my colleagues and I support the Bill because it was our idea in the first place....
William Cash | 472 c279 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that in respect of the other House a number of important provisions are pr...
John McDonnell | 472 c277 (Link to this contribution) Can it be made clear for the record that although Granite is a creature of Northern Rock, was establ...
Rob Marris | 472 c187 (Link to this contribution) They are not available yet. This is Second Reading.
Lord Bellingham | 472 c183 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is making an absolutely vital point. Does he agree that it is strange, to say the lea...
Lord McLoughlin | 472 c271-2 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. We have just heard the formal words of the Government Whi...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 472 c259 (Link to this contribution) The Chief Secretary has just made the extraordinary assertion that reducing the period to a month wo...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 472 c258 (Link to this contribution) For the sake of clarity, the hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne, Central (Jim Cousins) said he reco...
George Osborne | 472 c185 (Link to this contribution) The one point of agreement between the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats on the substantive po...
Lord Darling of Roulanish | 472 c176 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman is right. I will come on to clause 11, which deals with a different issue. ...
Rob Marris | 472 c285-6 (Link to this contribution) My recollection of the Lloyds bank indication of interest was that it asked for a considerable amoun...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 472 c278-9 (Link to this contribution) The Chief Secretary has given her version of the events leading up to the introduction of the Bill, ...
Phil Wilson | 472 c214-5 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a good point. Yesterday, a lot of the editorials in the newspapers in the north...
Lord Maples | 472 c213-4 (Link to this contribution) Yes, of course I understand that. It may be possible, if market circumstances change, to refinance t...

Subjects

Compensation
Accountability
Audit
Banks
Competition
Building societies
Bank of England
Liability
EU law
Government assistance
Financial Services Authority
Economic situation
Property transfer
Mortgages
Loans
Staff
Office of Fair Trading
Nationalisation
Regulation
Stocks and shares
Shareholders
Takeovers
Treasury
Virgin Group
Business plans
Northern Rock
Granite
Sunset clauses

Legislation

Banking (Special Provisions) Bill 2007-08

Link

View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk
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