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Racial and Religious Hatred Bill

Committee of the Whole House (HL) and Debate on bills on Tuesday, 25 October 2005, in the House of Lords.
Racial and Religious Hatred Bill. Lords Committee stage. Clauses 1 and 2 agreed to as amended. Clause 3 agreed to. Bill reported with amendments.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

674 c1070-104, 1122-39 

Session

2005-06

Department

Home Office

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Procedure

Government defeats

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber

Related items

Racial and Religious Hatred Bill. Brought from the Commons. Explanatory notes HL Bill 15-EN also published.
Tuesday, 12 July 2005
Bills
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 674 c1129 (Link to this contribution) The word is unnecessary. I have made it plain that I do not seek to argue the new construct put forw...
Lord Wedderburn of Charlton | 674 c1129-30 (Link to this contribution) I rise to support my noble friend. We cannot legislate across the Chamber tonight. Let us be wholly ...

Show all contributions (98)
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 674 c1130 (Link to this contribution) I can assure my noble friend that we will do all we can to deal with this matter expeditiously, but ...
Lord Wedderburn of Charlton | 674 c1130-1 (Link to this contribution) I hesitate to raise this again with my noble friend, but I am very disappointed with her reply. It i...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 674 c1131 (Link to this contribution) I wonder if I can be of positive help here. If the Government were root and branch opposed to the am...
Viscount Colville of Culross | 674 c1131-2 (Link to this contribution) I do not want to get into the mechanics of what is to happen next. Rather, I should like to make two...
Lord Peyton of Yeovil | 674 c1132-3 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 8:"Page 3, line 20, at beginning insert ““in the case of racial hatred,””" The ...
Lord Peyton of Yeovil | 674 c1133 (Link to this contribution) As I have not moved the amendment I will not have to withdraw it.
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 674 c1133 (Link to this contribution) Let me reassure the noble Lord that I have yet ever to find him outrageous. The truth is that the de...
Lord Haskel | 674 c1133 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord did move the amendment. Is it your Lordships’ pleasure that the amendment be withdraw...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 674 c1135 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the right reverend Prelate. Where in his amendments would one cover ridicule, comed...
Bishop of Southwell and Nottingham | 674 c1133-4 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 10:"Page 3, line 23, at end insert—" ““(4)   After subsection (5) insert— ““(5...
Lord Avebury | 674 c1134 (Link to this contribution) I hope the right reverend Prelate will forgive me for interrupting, but we had an injunction earlier...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 674 c1139 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 32:"Page 1, line 11, after ““3”” insert ““or 3A””" On Question, amendment agree...
Bishop of Southwell and Nottingham | 674 c1135 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord is quite right. I believe his amendment is more fully comprehensive and embracing. Ha...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 674 c1135-9 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 31: Leave out the Schedule and insert the following new Schedule— ““SCHEDULE ...
Lord Plant of Highfield | 674 c1092-3 (Link to this contribution) Because the point that I was making as my noble friend stood up arises. In the case of religious hat...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 674 c1093 (Link to this contribution) I think my noble friend is overlooking the fact that the burden on the prosecution to prove intent n...
Lord Avebury | 674 c1093 (Link to this contribution) For the record, what I actually said was that intent was present in both offences. It is in Section ...
Lord Grocott | 674 c1093 (Link to this contribution) I do not think we can have interventions on interventions.
Lord Plant of Highfield | 674 c1093 (Link to this contribution) I have one final point to make regarding the protection of freedom of expression. Noble friends arou...
Baroness O'Cathain | 674 c1093 (Link to this contribution) I want to make one brief point. There seems to be a big problem with the Bill, as I have said on sev...
Lord Parekh | 674 c1093-5 (Link to this contribution) I happen to be one of those on these Benches who have mixed feelings. On the one hand, I feel extrem...
Lord Barnett | 674 c1095 (Link to this contribution) First, I confess that I have not read our manifesto. Indeed, I am not sure that I read many of them,...
Lord Mackay of Clashfern | 674 c1095-6 (Link to this contribution) The proposal that, if the Government are willing genuinely to think again, the amendments may not be...
Lord Peston | 674 c1096 (Link to this contribution) I am loath to intervene because I want to hear what the Minister has to say, but I have a couple of ...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 674 c1098-9 (Link to this contribution) Is it not the case—this is illustrated by a certain pending prosecution against the BNP at the momen...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 674 c1098 (Link to this contribution) It is because it is seen as a mono-ethnic religion which brings it within the racial and religious d...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 674 c1096-8 (Link to this contribution) I have tried to resist the temptation to rise too early because I know that this debate is extremely...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 674 c1099 (Link to this contribution) The point we are trying to address is the hatred that can be directed towards an individual in relat...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 674 c1099 (Link to this contribution) The point that I raised in debate, which the Minister has not replied to, is that it is no use relyi...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 674 c1099 (Link to this contribution) In relation to the first limb, the noble Lord is right. Our current position—and I stress that it is...
Lord Wedderburn of Charlton | 674 c1099 (Link to this contribution) I apologise to the Minister if she has not finished with the point. If she has, I ask her a differen...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 674 c1099-100 (Link to this contribution) The Human Rights Act—I am sure I have heard the noble Lord say this on innumerable occasions—is the ...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 674 c1100 (Link to this contribution) This has been such an important debate. I hope your Lordships will forgive me if I do not seek to an...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 674 c1104 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 2:"Page 1, line 6, leave out paragraph (b)." On Question, amendment agreed to.
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 674 c1101 (Link to this contribution) I must say to the noble Lord, Lord Clinton-Davis, that it has been five years since this whole idea ...
Lord Grocott | 674 c1104 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move that the House be now resumed for the Statement. Moved accordingly, and, on Question,...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 674 c1104 (Link to this contribution) The Committee has agreed to Amendments Nos. 1 and 2, which are paving amendments for Amendment No. 3...
Lord Clinton-Davis | 674 c1101 (Link to this contribution) Why cannot the noble Lord give the Government an opportunity to have second thoughts now? A vote wou...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 674 c1124 (Link to this contribution) I will not respond in detail, but I do not agree with what the Minister just said. In fact, under th...
Earl of Onslow | 674 c1122 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 3:"Page 1, line 7, at end insert—" ““(   )   provides that the condemnation of...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 674 c1122-3 (Link to this contribution) I assure the noble Earl, Lord Onslow, that disagreeing with and robustly criticising practices which...
Earl of Onslow | 674 c1123 (Link to this contribution) In that case, I seek some assistance. Either the amendment is out of order completely, or if it is n...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 674 c1123-4 (Link to this contribution) I can reply to it, and could do so at some length. My worry is that I may incur the wrath of other n...
Earl of Onslow | 674 c1127 (Link to this contribution) We have now got ourselves into the most awful muddle. I regret to say that it seems to me to be tota...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 674 c1126-7 (Link to this contribution) I shall certainly seek to deal with the point raised by the noble Viscount, Lord Colville of Culross...
Lord Wedderburn of Charlton | 674 c1126 (Link to this contribution) I rise only—because we obviously want to hear what my noble friend on the Front Bench will say about...
Lord Lyell of Markyate | 674 c1125-6 (Link to this contribution) I support the noble Viscount, Lord Colville of Culross, in his amendment suggesting that reasonablen...
Viscount Colville of Culross | 674 c1124-5 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 4:"Page 3, line 6, at end insert—" ““2A      Where a person is accused of an o...
Earl of Onslow | 674 c1124 (Link to this contribution) Provided that stays in the Bill, I am happy, but it is extraordinarily odd that those odious practic...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 674 c1128-9 (Link to this contribution) I respectfully agree with that. I am trying to honour the Committee’s decision and not ignore it, wh...
Lord Lyell of Markyate | 674 c1129 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I misunderstood the noble Baroness; I should be interested to know whether the noble Lord, L...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 674 c1127-8 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may respectfully say—I know the noble Earl is never intentionally unfair—that that is unfa...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 674 c1128 (Link to this contribution) We think that it is completely unfair to criticise the way in which the Minister or her colleagues h...
Lord Mackay of Clashfern | 674 c1083 (Link to this contribution) Does the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes of Cumnock, agree with the view that intent to carry out the activ...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 674 c1083 (Link to this contribution) I understand that, but in Victoria it was a religious vilification law. We are talking about incitem...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 674 c1083-4 (Link to this contribution) I do. That is a key point of the amendment. I am grateful to the noble and learned Lord, Lord Mackay...
Lord Avebury | 674 c1084-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, has underlined the fact that we have discussed this proposal...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 674 c1084 (Link to this contribution) It is the fourth. Different arguments were put against it previously. The Government are getting nea...
Lord Avebury | 674 c1086 (Link to this contribution) I do not understand the noble Lord’s argument as the Bill is about incitement. That is what we talke...
Lord Wedderburn of Charlton | 674 c1085-6 (Link to this contribution) As the noble Lord has mentioned me twice, I hope that he will not feel aggrieved if I ask him a ques...
Lord Avebury | 674 c1086 (Link to this contribution) We have been told by the Chief Whip that she does not want long speeches, and I have already been on...
Baroness Whitaker | 674 c1089 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to interrupt the noble Lord. Is it not the case that in the Australian legislation no per...
Lord Alton of Liverpool | 674 c1088-9 (Link to this contribution) I support the amendment and I strongly agree with the sentiments expressed by the noble and learned ...
Lord Avebury | 674 c1087 (Link to this contribution) It is not a question of simply being ““not aware””. Perhaps I may read the words that come before th...
Lord Avebury | 674 c1087 (Link to this contribution) I would not rise again if it were not for the fact that the noble Lord said that I was wrong. He is ...
Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton | 674 c1086-7 (Link to this contribution) It really will assist the due process of House procedure if we do not have ““dualogues”” during the ...
Lord Alton of Liverpool | 674 c1089 (Link to this contribution) I accept the noble Baroness’s point. I said in my preliminary remarks that there is a difference. Ho...
Lord Wedderburn of Charlton | 674 c1086 (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Lord sits down, to say that one has not done one’s homework is a very grave charge....
Lord Dubs | 674 c1091-2 (Link to this contribution) Will my noble friend help to clarify his Amendment No. 31? If it has already been done by one of the...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 674 c1092 (Link to this contribution) I accepted the point made by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Mackay, when he intervened, but subseq...
Lord Plant of Highfield | 674 c1092 (Link to this contribution) Can I come back to that in a moment because I want to make three more general points? The first is t...
Earl of Onslow | 674 c1090 (Link to this contribution) If the Government are going to agree with the noble Lord, Lord Clinton-Davis, then I suggest that we...
Lord Clinton-Davis | 674 c1090 (Link to this contribution) I think that, in many ways, the Government have offered the Committee a laudable Bill, but I share t...
Lord Plant of Highfield | 674 c1091 (Link to this contribution) As one of the signatories to the amendments I would like to say a few words. I agree with what the n...
Lord Campbell of Alloway | 674 c1090-1 (Link to this contribution) I wanted to say a briefer word to support the noble Lord, Lord Clinton-Davis. This is a bad Bill. Th...
Lord Wedderburn of Charlton | 674 c1089 (Link to this contribution) Does the noble Lord not agree that, whereas the Attorney-General can stop prosecutions, he cannot do...
Lord Alton of Liverpool | 674 c1089-90 (Link to this contribution) The Committee will also want to take that issue into account as it considers how we should proceed. ...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 674 c1070 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I beg to move that the House do now resolve itself into Committee on this Bill. Moved acc...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 674 c1073-7 (Link to this contribution) We on the Liberal Democrat Benches are delighted to stand shoulder-to-shoulder with the noble Lord, ...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 674 c1070-3 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 1:"Page 1, line 2, leave out ““Part 3 of””" The noble Lord said: First, perhaps...
Lord Wedderburn of Charlton | 674 c1083 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my noble friend. We will get back to a little more of what he likes. I happen to ha...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 674 c1082-3 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord. What a great fellow he is. I shall see him in the bar afterwards and reward ...
Earl of Onslow | 674 c1082 (Link to this contribution) I intervene to tell the noble Lord that it would be perfectly all right.
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 674 c1082 (Link to this contribution) I am a little perplexed, because I am used to Committee stages with to-ing and fro-ing, interruption...
Lord Thomas of Swynnerton | 674 c1082 (Link to this contribution) I do not deny that the Bill has a good purpose, but I should feel much happier if the amendments spo...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 674 c1081-2 (Link to this contribution) I shall keep well within the constraints of the Companion. I wish to make one point, in supplement t...
Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton | 674 c1081 (Link to this contribution) I thank my noble friend for drawing the attention of the Whips certainly not to the content of his s...
Lord Wedderburn of Charlton | 674 c1077-81 (Link to this contribution) I wish to say two things as a member of the Labour Party, as I have been since the age of 17—technic...
Lord Lyell of Markyate | 674 c1087-8 (Link to this contribution) I intend to speak briefly in support of these amendments, because they are not wrecking amendments—w...
Earl of Onslow | 674 c1098 (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Baroness continues, am I not right in thinking that it is attacks on the racial ele...
Bishop of Southwell and Nottingham | 674 c1134-5 (Link to this contribution) I hear what the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, says. Given the enormity and substantive nature of the ame...

Subjects

Incitement
Racially aggravated offences
Religion
Religious hatred
Religious freedom
Religiously aggravated offences
Racial hatred

Legislation

Racial and Religious Hatred Bill (HL) 2005-06

Link

View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk
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