UK Parliament / Open data

Policing and Crime Bill

Committee of the Whole House (HL) and Debate on bills on Wednesday, 14 September 2016, in the House of Lords.
Lords committee stage (first day, part one). Clauses 1, 3-6 agreed to. Clause 2, as amended, agreed to. Schedule 1, amendments made.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

774 cc1466-1524 

Session

2016-17

Department

Home Office

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber
Policing and Crime Bill 2015-16 to 2016-17
Tuesday, 14 June 2016
Bills
House of Lords
Deposited Paper DEP2016-0747
Friday, 7 October 2016
Deposited papers
House of Lords
Deposited Paper DEP2016-0746
Friday, 7 October 2016
Deposited papers
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Baroness Hamwee | 774 c1467 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Hamwee

1: Clause 2, page 2, line 24, after “the” insert “economy,”<...

Baroness Hamwee | 774 cc1467-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, Amendment 1 is an amendment in the name of my noble friend Lord Paddick and myself, as ...


Show all contributions (103)
Lord Harris of Haringey | 774 c1468 (Link to this contribution)

This is a surprisingly interesting group of amendments, although not obviously so at first sight....

Baroness Scott of Bybrook | 774 cc1468-9 (Link to this contribution)

First of all, I make the House aware of my job as a leader of Wiltshire Council, which is on the ...

Lord Bach | 774 cc1469-1470 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I declare an interest as the police and crime commissioner for Leicester, Leicestershir...

Baroness Redfern | 774 cc1470-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, Clause 2 concerns collaboration, and I see that in terms of further collaboration betwe...

Lord Rosser | 774 cc1471-2 (Link to this contribution)

We have an amendment in this group to which I will speak. Like other noble Lords who have spoken,...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 774 c1472 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have spoken so constructively to this group of amendments. ...

Lord Harris of Haringey | 774 c1472 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, is the noble Baroness leaving that point? It looks as though she is. I understand if sh...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 774 c1473 (Link to this contribution)

As I said, a collaboration agreement could vastly improve the quality of a service, which is a go...

Lord Kennedy of Southwark | 774 c1473 (Link to this contribution)

I have just one point. Could it be more effective and less efficient or vice versa?

Lord Harris of Haringey | 774 c1473 (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry to do this to the noble Baroness, because she is trying to be helpful. However, her an...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 774 cc1473-4 (Link to this contribution)

In that case, I will stick to the answer that I gave the noble Lord and perhaps disagree with the...

Lord Bach | 774 c1474 (Link to this contribution)

Now that the Minister has made those kind remarks, I hope that if she has time she will visit to ...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 774 cc1474-6 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord gave me that invitation this morning. I was happy to take it up then and I am happ...

Lord Rosser | 774 c1476 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister very much for her response to Amendment 6 and for what she just said about w...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 774 cc1476-7 (Link to this contribution)

I can certainly follow up on that question and give the noble Lord an answer before Report, but i...

Lord Rosser | 774 c1477 (Link to this contribution)

Would the Government also look at it if two PCCs decided they wanted to merge their police areas?...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 774 c1477 (Link to this contribution)

If two PCC areas came to the Government with a proposal for change, the Government would consider...

Baroness Hamwee | 774 cc1477-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful for the care that the noble Baroness took in the detail of her response. ...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 774 c1478 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Williams of Trafford

4: Clause 2, page 3, line 4, leave out “and” a...

Lord Rosser | 774 c1478 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Rosser

5: Clause 2, page 3, line 14, at end insert—

“( ) For the ...

Lord Rosser | 774 cc1478-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I appreciate that later clauses will enable us to have a much fuller debate on mental h...

Baroness Hamwee | 774 cc1479-1480 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am reluctant to say anything that could be interpreted in any way as negative about t...

Lord Adebowale | 774 c1480 (Link to this contribution)

I support the amendment moved by the noble Lord, Lord Rosser. I have some experience of the polic...

Baroness Chisholm of Owlpen | 774 cc1480-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, for explaining the rationale for this ame...

Lord Harris of Haringey | 774 c1481 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Baroness keeps talking about the strength of the concordat, and I do not think any of u...

Baroness Chisholm of Owlpen | 774 c1481 (Link to this contribution)

No, that is not the reason. As I was saying, the strength of the concordat, which is making real ...

Lord Harris of Haringey | 774 c1481 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Baroness seems to miss the point. If the concordat is working so well, why has the poli...

Baroness Chisholm of Owlpen | 774 c1481 (Link to this contribution)

I cannot answer that. We have to give these agreements time to work; a lot of them are quite newl...

Lord Adebowale | 774 c1482 (Link to this contribution)

I understand the point that the Minister is making but I wonder whether she might comment on this...

Baroness Chisholm of Owlpen | 774 c1482 (Link to this contribution)

I am not suggesting that where there is no concordat, people are not receiving good help. The who...

Lord Harris of Haringey | 774 c1482 (Link to this contribution)

In her earlier remarks, the Minister specifically referred to Greater Manchester. There, the numb...

Baroness Chisholm of Owlpen | 774 c1482 (Link to this contribution)

I am sure the noble Lord is correct that the use of Section 136 has gone up in the 2015-16 data, ...

Lord Rosser | 774 cc1482-3 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister for her response, and I thank noble Lords who have contributed to this debat...

Baroness Chisholm of Owlpen | 774 c1483 (Link to this contribution)

Yes, I apologise to the noble Lord for not getting back to him on that; I will have to write to h...

Lord Rosser | 774 c1483 (Link to this contribution)

I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Baroness Hamwee | 774 c1483 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Hamwee

8: Clause 4, page 4, line 38, leave out “a subsequent collab...

Baroness Hamwee | 774 c1483 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, Amendments 8 and 9 are short amendments relating to Clause 4(8), which provides:

...

Lord Hope of Craighead | 774 c1484 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I suggest that the Government might like to look favourably on Amendment 8, in particul...

Baroness Chisholm of Owlpen | 774 c1484 (Link to this contribution)

I thank noble Lords for taking part in this debate. I understand from the noble Baroness, Lady Ha...

Baroness Hamwee | 774 c1484 (Link to this contribution)

I think it may have become not a probing amendment.

Lord Hope of Craighead | 774 c1484 (Link to this contribution)

With great respect to the Minister, she did not address my point. One has a choice: either one va...

Baroness Chisholm of Owlpen | 774 c1484 (Link to this contribution)

Certainly. I feel I must bow before the noble and learned Lord’s incredible intelligence in these...

Baroness Hamwee | 774 c1484 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, that is very helpful. The noble and learned Lord makes the argument far better than I d...

Lord Rosser | 774 cc1485-8 (Link to this contribution)

The clauses and schedule to which I will speak enable police and crime commissioners take over th...

Baroness Scott of Bybrook | 774 c1488 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, as the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, has mentioned Wiltshire and Dorset fire authority, I sh...

Lord Paddick | 774 cc1488-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I rise to support, to some extent, the remarks of the noble Lord, Lord Rosser. Police a...

Lord Bach | 774 cc1489-1491 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I agree very much with what my noble friend Lord Rosser said on Clause 6. However, I al...

Lord Harris of Haringey | 774 cc1491-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the speech from my noble friend Lord Bach underlines the perils the Government are goin...

Lord Porter of Spalding | 774 c1492 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I shall speak briefly to the remarks of the noble Lord, Lord Harris, about the elected ...

Lord Beecham | 774 cc1492-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I endorse the approach that my noble friend Lord Harris has advanced. Equally, I was ve...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 774 c1494 (Link to this contribution)

I thank noble Lords who spoke so articulately to this group of amendments, particularly the noble...

Lord Harris of Haringey | 774 c1494 (Link to this contribution)

I hesitate to intervene so early in the Minister’s response, but she referred to the Conservative...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 774 c1495 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the quote,

“enable fire and police services to work more closely together”,

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 774 c1495 (Link to this contribution)

If I could make some progress, I am sure the noble Lord will come back to me if he feels he needs...

Lord Beecham | 774 c1495 (Link to this contribution)

Could the noble Baroness clarify what that means for responsibility for that service? Is it a col...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 774 cc1495-8 (Link to this contribution)

It is about a single person having responsibility for both services. By their very nature, some w...

Lord Rosser | 774 cc1498-9 (Link to this contribution)

I have one or two points. Bearing in mind that this is not necessarily about a clause standing pa...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 774 c1499 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I talked about the provisions in effect being piloted as some areas will go first. Not ...

Lord Harris of Haringey | 774 c1499 (Link to this contribution)

On the question of pilots, the Home Office has no doubt given careful consideration to what has b...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 774 cc1499-1500 (Link to this contribution)

Being of Haringey, the noble Lord probably has a far better idea of what efficiency savings have ...

Lord Rosser | 774 c1500 (Link to this contribution)

Does the Minister not think that that would be desirable? A proposal by a PCC who sought to take ...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 774 c1500 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, there is no barrier to wider collaboration. I keep harking back to my visit to Salford ...

Baroness Hamwee | 774 c1500 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Hamwee

10: Schedule 1, page 174, line 8, at end insert “, and

Baroness Hamwee | 774 cc1500-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, my noble friend Lord Paddick and I tabled Amendments 10, 11 and 99 in this group and we...

Lord Rosser | 774 cc1501-2 (Link to this contribution)

I will be brief. As the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, mentioned, Amendments 12, 30 and 44 in this ...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 774 cc1502-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, where a PCC is interested in taking responsibility for fire and rescue, he or she will ...

Baroness Hamwee | 774 cc1503-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I reserve my right to consult my noble friend after today.

The start of the Minis...

Lord Rosser | 774 c1504 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Rosser

13: Schedule 1, page 174, line 16, at end insert—

“(7) No ...

Lord Rosser | 774 cc1504-5 (Link to this contribution)

This amendment relates to Schedule 1 and the provision for a police and crime commissioner to see...

Baroness Hamwee | 774 cc1505-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, my noble friend Lord Paddick and I have Amendment 23 in this group. It is a probing ame...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 774 cc1506-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, public safety is of course paramount and it is important that fire and rescue authoriti...

Lord Rosser | 774 c1507 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister for her response. Although I intend to withdraw my amendment, I am not quite...

Baroness Hamwee | 774 c1507 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Hamwee

14: Schedule 1, page 174, line 36, after first “and” insert ...

Baroness Hamwee | 774 cc1507-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we have Amendments 14, 15, 32 and 100 in this group. Amendments 14, 32 and 100 concern ...

Baroness Chisholm of Owlpen | 774 cc1508-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, has indicated that these are probing amendments, desig...

Baroness Hamwee | 774 c1509 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, that is very helpful, and I do indeed beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Baroness Chisholm of Owlpen | 774 c1509 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Chisholm of Owlpen

16: Schedule 1, page 176, line 13, after “author...

Baroness Chisholm of Owlpen | 774 c1509 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I recognise that there are quite a lot of amendments in this group. It is more like rea...

Baroness Hamwee | 774 c1510 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we indeed have amendments at the various points at which there is reference to the appl...

Baroness Chisholm of Owlpen | 774 c1510 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the noble Baroness for explaining her amendments. She explained that they are de...

Baroness Hamwee | 774 c1510 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness. She seemed for most of her response to be making my case fo...

Countess of Mar | 774 c1511 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, before I call Amendment 17, I have to tell noble Lords that if it is agreed to, I canno...

Baroness Hamwee | 774 c1511 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Hamwee

17: Schedule 1, page 176, leave out lines 24 and 25

Baroness Hamwee | 774 c1511 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I always relish advice to the Committee that an amendment that we know has no hope of b...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 774 cc1511-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, as the noble Baroness explained, these amendments are about the delegation of fire and ...

Baroness Hamwee | 774 cc1512-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the first thing I should do is thank the Minister for putting on the record the answer ...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 774 c1513 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Williams of Trafford

18: Schedule 1, page 176, line 25, after “auth...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 774 c1513 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Williams of Trafford

20: Schedule 1, page 176, line 27, after “auth...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 774 c1513 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Williams of Trafford

25: Schedule 1, page 179, line 16, leave out f...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 774 cc1513-4 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Williams of Trafford

31: Schedule 1, page 179, line 47, at end inse...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 774 c1514 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Williams of Trafford

33: Schedule 1, page 180, line 14, leave out f...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 774 cc1514-5 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Williams of Trafford

38: Schedule 1, page 183, line 7, at end inser...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 774 c1515 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Williams of Trafford

41: Schedule 1, page 183, line 26, leave out “...

Baroness Hamwee | 774 c1515 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Hamwee

45: Schedule 1, page 185, line 22, at end insert—

“(2A...

Baroness Hamwee | 774 cc1515-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, my noble friend Lady Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville would have moved and spoken to t...

Lord Rosser | 774 cc1516-8 (Link to this contribution)

We have a number of amendments in this group. The first, Amendment 46, provides that, before a po...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 774 cc1518-1522 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, these amendments raise a number of important points about the process for bringing forw...

Baroness Hamwee | 774 c1521 (Link to this contribution)

I am glad to hear that the Government will consider Amendment 49, and I thank the Minister for th...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 774 cc1521-4 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Williams of Trafford

56: Schedule 1, page 190, leave out lines 4 to...

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