My Lords, I agree very much with what my noble friend Lord Rosser said on Clause 6. However, I also agree very much with what the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, said about the role of a police and crime commissioner. That job involves a large amount of full-time work right from the start, but I would say that, wouldn’t I? The noble Lord mentioned a police and crime commissioner being the bridge between the police and the public in the area in which he or she is elected. Every new police and crime commissioner and, I suspect, those who were re-elected, have to produce a police and crime plan by 31 March next year. That is a formidable undertaking, certainly for the likes of me. Already, a large part of my life is spent trying to work out what I will put in the plan and, perhaps more importantly, what I will not put in it.
In addition, as the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, hinted, partnerships have to be formed—these are very important in a police and crime commissioner’s work—and commissioning has to be carried out to make sure that the limited but important amount of resource that a police and crime commissioner is given under the 2011 Act is used for the general activity of
preventing crime and making communities safe. All the while, of course, there is an obligation to look, as a critical friend, at the police force with which they are connected. As far as I am concerned, that is a pretty full-time job. Perhaps I have been lucky in my life, in that that seems an extremely hard-working role.
I do not think there is anything wrong with amalgamating services, if a community wants that. I know the Minister will argue in due course that this is a voluntary step. I will come back to that in a moment. Following our earlier discussion on collaboration, this measure does not fit terribly well with the best collaborative work, which is voluntary, bottom-up, happens, works or does not work and is experimented with. The scheme will look to many people as one that is effectively being imposed.
5.30 pm
One of my concerns, which my noble friend Lord Rosser referred to, is what happens if there is another bout of public expenditure cuts. That is quite possible, either shortly or at some time in the next few years. There will be difficulties and choices imposed on a police and crime commissioner, who, after all, has been elected as a PCC and nothing else. In real life there will be a choice between the police service—the chief constable will say, “We have taken a huge hit already; do you really want crime to go up in our area?” —and a popular fire and rescue service. But one is tiny in comparison with the other and has already felt public spending cuts, yet the PCC will be obliged to make cuts to it if they do not make cuts to the police. That is not a fair choice to put on police and crime commissioners, unless they want to take that decision. Very difficult choices will have to be imposed on sitting police and crime commissioners.
I hope I know by now how Governments behave. It is a relief that the legislation will not include the mandatory making of an amalgamation. However, I am concerned about the pressure that will be put on police and crime commissioners to go down this path once the Bill becomes an Act of Parliament, and I will be interested to hear what the Minister says about this. They may find that there are various hints and suggestions—and maybe more than that—that this is what the Government want, and will get. This is not a party-political point. Police and crime commissioners will be forced, one way or another, to go down this path. I very much hope that that is not the intention or the plan, or something that will develop after the Bill becomes law. There is a danger that PCCs who do not want to go down this avenue will be forced to do so by government action—or non-action. I think the Committee knows what I am talking about with regard to pressure.
I remind the Committee and, with great respect, the Minister, that, after all, it was the present Prime Minister who introduced the legislation that resulted in the emergence of police and crime commissioners, who were to be and have been directly elected. Even on the basis of small turnouts, that has to give them some authority to make decisions that they feel are right. I repeat: they are elected as police and crime commissioners; they are not elected as anything to do with the fire and rescue services as such. Therefore, I hope the Government will respect the independence of police and crime
commissioners, who are of all parties and none. I am afraid that legislation such as this gives cause for concern that, on the one hand, the Government say they are in favour of police and crime commissioners being independent elected authorities, but on the other they will put pressure on them to do what central government wants. We do not want to find ourselves in that position. I finish with this comment: I do not want to become a fire and rescue authority.