Armed Forces Bill

My Lords, I start by reminding your Lordships that at Second Reading I expressed my concern about...

Moved by

Earl Attlee

1A: After Clause 5, after subsection (1) insert—

“( ) For ...

My Lords, I remind the Committee that I still have an interest as I will be commissioned until Oc...

My Lords, the first two groups for debate today discuss the generality of military law. The first...

My Lords, I am very conscious of the close interest taken by the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresf...

My Lords, if I may interject, I have been a president of a court martial board, I have sat on a c...

The noble Lord, as so often, has hit the nail right on the head. What he said encapsulates much o...

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for the response to my Amendment 1A. On the point about m...

It is very different from civil society. The whole structure of discipline within the military is...

My Lords, I absolutely agree with the noble Lord—I almost said the noble and gallant Lord; he is ...

My Lords, I am most grateful to the Minister for his lengthy and very careful response to what I ...

I am not technically noble and gallant.

I am sure that the noble Lord, Lord West, would have added a keel-hauling or something of that na...

My Lords, I am not quite sure why the panel should go outside the guidance of the judge advocate....

I am not going to recount anecdotes but it is not necessary for the panel to follow the advice of...

My Lords, surely the choice between prison and detention—in other words, “soldier on”—is a purely...

I am not suggesting that the judge advocate should act entirely without the advice given to him b...

Moved by

Lord Thomas of Gresford

4: After Clause 5, insert the following new Clause—<...

In moving this amendment, I will couple it with consideration of Amendments 15 and 16.

Perh...

My Lords, I would add a word to what the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, has said, mainly be...

Does the noble and learned Lord agree that Martin could have been tried in this country and that ...

Of course we had extraterritorial jurisdiction, but the fact that the crime was committed in Germ...

My Lords, I have considerable sympathy for Amendment 4, which stems from my view that I see the c...

My Lords, as I said earlier, I see this debate as being in two parts, of which this is the second...

My Lords, these further amendments address other aspects of the service justice system about whic...

I am most grateful again to the Minister for his careful outline of the Government’s position. I ...

Moved by

Lord Touhig

5: After Clause 14, insert the following new Clause—

“Requ...

My Lords, at Second Reading I raised the Government’s intention to allow women to serve in front-...

My Lords, I support Amendments 5 and 6, which are designed to clarify and reduce levels of rape a...

My Lords, I strongly support Amendment 5. In the late 1980s, I was dragged from my destroyer by t...

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Touhig, for moving this amendment, which concerns...

I am sorry, but surely that has nothing to do with it. We have to get it right within the Armed F...

Once again I absolutely agree with the noble Lord that we have to address our problems and deal w...

My Lords, the noble Earl, Lord Attlee, has made me think about two other instances that perhaps I...

My Lords, the noble Baroness’s final point really follows on from what I was saying about the rec...

My Lords, my first point was going to be the one that the noble Baroness, Lady Gould of Potternew...

My Lords, I am moved to join in this debate by the recitation by the noble Baroness, Lady Gould, ...

My Lords, I understand the concerns which underlie these amendments. However, the case that I sha...

My Lords, I am not suggesting putting the information anywhere on the service record—in the Army ...

The noble Earl has talked about the question of allegation, which is always a problem. Would he b...

I shall address both points. I shall certainly factor in the last point that my noble friend made...

Perhaps I may remind your Lordships that when we were in a committee trying to put all three manu...

My Lords, legally everyone has a commanding officer; someone somewhere is the commanding officer....

My Lords, we have had a good short debate and I am grateful to all noble Lords who have taken par...

Perhaps I may answer one question raised by the noble Lord. I can assure him that being put on th...

I appreciate that, and am grateful to the Minister for clarifying it. However, he spoke earlier a...

Moved by

Lord Touhig

7: After Clause 14, insert the following new Clause—

“Requ...

My Lords, we owe a debt to our Reserve Forces that is too great to measure. Despite what many hav...

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for moving his amendment. I have to apologise to the Co...

My Lords, I accept that this is a probing amendment. I think everyone would be of the view that d...

My Lords, I am happy to support the amendment. Future Reserves 2020 relies upon a significant bui...

My Lords, I am most grateful to the noble Lord for raising this issue and I understand entirely w...

My Lords, when the noble Lord, Lord Touhig, moved his amendment, he said that it was a probing am...

Was that on an employment issue specifically?

My Lords, it was on the ability of all reservists to get their jobs back. It was not well handled...

My Lords, in the event of the noble Lord, Lord Touhig, bringing back an amendment at a later stag...

I apologise for not addressing that issue and of course I shall be more than happy to do so.

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who took part in this debate. The noble Earl, Lord Attlee, rais...

Moved by

Lord Touhig

8: After Clause 14, insert the following new Clause—

“Ment...

My Lords, Amendment 8 has widespread support across the House, as evidenced by the names attached...

My Lords, I shall speak to Amendments 8 and 14. For reasons that will become apparent, I will tal...

My Lords, I welcome the fact that this debate is taking place. Mental health has moved up the nat...

My Lords, I agree with everything that the noble Lords have said. I believe that Her Majesty’s Ar...

Does the noble Earl agree that we in the UK have a reasonably well documented example of that? Am...

My Lords, I would like to say something about attitudes towards mental health. I remember in the ...

My Lords, I support the thrust of this probing amendment. Clearly there are enormous differences ...

My Lords, I add my support for Amendment 14 and apologise for my very croaky voice. I do not norm...

My Lords, I hope that it will not surprise noble Lords to hear that I fully share the sense of im...

My Lords, the Minister rightly makes a very important point about the commitment that we as a cou...

Moved by

Lord Mackay of Clashfern

9: After Clause 14, insert the following new Clause...

My Lords, this amendment seeks to explore the result of a case known as Smith and others v Minist...

Before he finishes, may I ask the noble Lord about claims against the Armed Forces? For example, ...

This applies only to the injury or death of those serving in the military on behalf of the Britis...

My Lords, it was a privilege to put my name to the amendment of the noble and learned Lord, Lord ...

My Lords, I thank the noble and learned Lord, Lord Mackay of Clashfern, for laying out so clearly...

My Lords—

I would be grateful if I could speak first because the noble and learned Lord might wish to comme...

My fear is that this judgment has opened up the spectre of things to be investigated by the civil...

My Lords—

I wonder if the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, would let me speak before him because I intend...

Just before my noble friend sits down, I would like to get clarification. Is he saying that comba...

One of the reasons why I spoke when I did was so that there could be a summing-up of the law by t...

My noble friend’s exposition explains exactly my concerns about what is going on because it is no...

I can see why my noble friend was made an admiral and I only an acting pilot officer.

My Lords, I wonder whether I could say a word. First, I apologise for the fact that due to other ...

I certainly do not have the view that that was the aim of the judgment by the noble and learned L...

I am very grateful to the noble Lord. One cannot invent cases. The trouble with the courts is tha...

Does the noble and learned Lord think that a way forward—

Surely we must hear another voice.

My Lords, the judgment in Smith, although 72 pages long, deals with one aspect only of the severa...

I was going to put this question to the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, but does the noble and...

I am glad to have been asked that question because it gives me the opportunity of saying this. Co...

My Lords, I strongly support my noble and learned friend and his noble and gallant supporters. I ...

My Lords, I am extremely grateful to my noble and learned friend Lord Mackay for having given the...

My Lords, it was never my intention to press this amendment. It was simply intended to raise thes...

Perhaps I may interject for a moment. I could not possibly have gone anywhere else. I just want t...

That is the question.

Surely the judgment given by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, makes that absolutely clear. ...

I entirely agree. The noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, made that as clear as he could. However,...

My Lords, this may be a convenient, if not welcome, moment for the Committee to adjourn.