UK Parliament / Open data

Trade Union Bill

Lords committee stage third day. Clause 11 agreed to. clause 12 under consideration. Part 1 of 2.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

769 cc147-208 

Session

2015-16

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Procedure

New clauses

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber
Trade Union Bill 2015-16. Brought from the Commons.
Wednesday, 11 November 2015
Bills
House of Lords
Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee fifteenth report.
Wednesday, 2 December 2015
Parliamentary committees
House of Lords
Legislative Scrutiny: Trade Union Bill. Human Rights Joint Committee first report with formal minutes.
Wednesday, 3 February 2016
Parliamentary committees
House of Lords
House of Commons
Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee twentieth report.
Wednesday, 3 February 2016
Parliamentary committees
House of Lords

Show all related items (5)
Trade Union Bill
Tuesday, 23 February 2016
Parliamentary proceedings
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Lord Collins of Highbury | 769 c147 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Collins of Highbury

69: After Clause 10, insert the following new Claus...

Lord Collins of Highbury | 769 cc147-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we had quite a lengthy discussion about this on the last day in Committee. I do not wan...


Show all contributions (101)
Lord Hain | 769 cc148-150 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I rise briefly to support the coherent case made by my noble friend Lord Collins. I sha...

Lord Balfe | 769 cc150-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am advised that at the beginning of each week’s proceedings I should declare my inter...

Lord Lea of Crondall | 769 c151 (Link to this contribution)

I remember that Hope not Hate was very interesting at the time on the question of the electoral r...

Lord Balfe | 769 c151 (Link to this contribution)

I certainly agree that we need a level playing field. In the past, noble Lords have been treated ...

Lord Judd | 769 cc152-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, very often the noble Lord, Lord Balfe, makes points with which I strongly agree. He is ...

Lord Oates | 769 c153 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I share the view of the noble Lord and I hope that the Minister will consider extremely...

Lord Balfe | 769 c153 (Link to this contribution)

I note that the noble Lord from the Liberal Democrat Benches specifically says that he supports A...

Lord Oates | 769 cc153-4 (Link to this contribution)

The point which we have made and which the former Deputy Prime Minister made in his representatio...

Lord Mawhinney | 769 c154 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I, too, want to look briefly at Amendment 69. When the noble Lord, Lord Collins of High...

Lord Stoneham of Droxford | 769 cc154-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will contain my remarks to just a couple of points that have been made during the deb...

Earl of Sandwich | 769 c155 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am unusually tempted to come into this debate, but it has had an international charac...

Lord Morris of Handsworth | 769 cc155-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support Amendment 69 because one of the greatest challenges that we face in our workp...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 769 cc156-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful to noble Lords for this lively debate, which builds on the debate we had ...

Lord Harris of Haringey | 769 c157 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have been following the debate with great interest. If the Minister’s argument is tha...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 769 c157 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, there have been a number of pieces of trade union legislation over the years and this i...

Lord Collins of Highbury | 769 cc157-8 (Link to this contribution)

I do not understand that point. One of the things that gets omitted in our debates about politica...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 769 c158 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the noble Lord. I have given some examples today, and we have done so in the pas...

Lord Collins of Highbury | 769 c158 (Link to this contribution)

I return to the question that the noble Lord, Lord Oates, raised. People have been quite understa...

Lord Balfe | 769 c158 (Link to this contribution)

There is nothing to prevent any trade union encouraging its members to register to vote. It is no...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 769 c158 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, to sum up, our provisions will not impact on what unions decide to spend money on or th...

Lord Collins of Highbury | 769 cc158-9 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the noble Baroness for her comments. The debate has been worth while and I am glad that w...

Lord Collins of Highbury | 769 c159 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Collins of Highbury

72: Clause 11, page 7, line 25, leave out “£2,000” ...

Lord Collins of Highbury | 769 cc159-161 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this group of amendments concerns transparency and reporting requirements. I hope the M...

Lord Cormack | 769 cc161-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I intervene briefly to support, in general terms, what the noble Lord, Lord Collins of ...

Baroness Donaghy | 769 cc162-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Cormack, for making those points about having this debate ...

Lord Stoneham of Droxford | 769 c163 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I agree with everything that the noble Lord, Lord Cormack, the noble Baroness, Lady Don...

Lord Leigh of Hurley | 769 cc163-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I rise to oppose the proposed amendments to Clause 11. We discussed tangential matters ...

Lord Collins of Highbury | 769 c164 (Link to this contribution)

I come back to the point that there is a tendency to forget one fundamental principle: unlike the...

Lord Leigh of Hurley | 769 cc164-5 (Link to this contribution)

I do not think anyone is suggesting that these are improper payments; the suggestion is that ther...

Lord Stoneham of Droxford | 769 c165 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord is a director of companies. Would he say, in the interests of transparency, that f...

Lord Leigh of Hurley | 769 c165 (Link to this contribution)

With respect, a director of a private company, as I am, is a different phenomenon from a public b...

Lord Collins of Highbury | 769 c165 (Link to this contribution)

Let us pose a question to which the noble Lord may know the answer. He is a treasurer of the Cons...

Lord Leigh of Hurley | 769 c165 (Link to this contribution)

With great respect, this is a debate on the Trade Union Bill.

Lord Balfe | 769 c165 (Link to this contribution)

Perhaps I can help my noble friend by saying that the Conservative Party has a democratic structu...

Lord Lea of Crondall | 769 c165 (Link to this contribution)

Is the noble Lord aware of the adage that what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander?

Lord Balfe | 769 c165 (Link to this contribution)

I am aware of all those sayings, and I see some of the difficulties that noble Lords opposite men...

Lord Leigh of Hurley | 769 c165 (Link to this contribution)

I take the point that £2,000 is a low threshold, and willingly take on board the discussion over ...

Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 769 c166 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I had not intended to speak in this debate but, having heard the contributions, I felt ...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 769 cc166-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I start by making a general point. Over the last few years, we have seen a step change ...

Lord Collins of Highbury | 769 cc167-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I appreciate the Minister’s sincerity, but I find it a little galling when I read the n...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 769 c168 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Neville-Rolfe

74A: Clause 12, page 8, line 13, after “authority” in...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 769 cc168-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have listened to and reflected carefully on concerns voiced in the other place about ...

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 769 c169 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town

76: Clause 12, page 8, line 18, leave out “,...

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 769 cc169-173 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in moving Amendment 76, which also stands in the names of my noble friends Lord Mendels...

Lord Hain | 769 cc173-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support the amendment so expertly moved by my noble friend Lady Hayter, and I refer t...

Lord King of Bridgwater | 769 c176 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I may embarrass the noble Lord, Lord Hain, by saying that I agree with every single wor...

Bishop of Bristol | 769 c176 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I hesitate to question the assumptions being made by the noble Lord, Lord King, because...

Lord King of Bridgwater | 769 cc177-8 (Link to this contribution)

If the right reverend Prelate will allow me, we are actually on Clause 12, which is about transpa...

Lord Beecham | 769 cc178-180 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have listened carefully to the noble Lord, Lord King, and I accept entirely that he i...

Lord Callanan | 769 c180 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support the Government’s position and these clauses. I strongly associate myself with...

Lord Watson of Invergowrie | 769 c180 (Link to this contribution)

Has the noble Lord read the impact assessment on facility time? It has done a calculation. We do ...

Lord Callanan | 769 c180 (Link to this contribution)

I have seen the impact assessment, but I do not think that it is particularly specific about how ...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 769 c180 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, how would the noble Lord characterise the cost of health and safety reps and the work t...

Lord Callanan | 769 c181 (Link to this contribution)

Of course expenditure on health and safety activities is justified and I would support it, but eq...

Lord Harris of Haringey | 769 cc181-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I apologise to the Committee that I did not have the opportunity to speak on Second Rea...

Lord King of Bridgwater | 769 c183 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the noble Lord for giving the most brilliant support to the point I wanted to make. He is...

Lord Harris of Haringey | 769 c183 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the noble Lord for that support. I was about to conclude by saying that I rather...

Lord Hayward | 769 cc184-5 (Link to this contribution)

Before I make any comments in relation to the speeches that have gone before, I echo the noble Lo...

Lord Sawyer | 769 cc185-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, there is one difference missing here. We are, essentially, talking about good employee ...

Baroness Emerton | 769 c186 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, first, I apologise for not being present at Second Reading. I know it is customary not ...

Lord Teverson | 769 c186 (Link to this contribution)

It is not necessary to have been at Second Reading to participate in Committee. No noble Lord sho...

Baroness Emerton | 769 c186 (Link to this contribution)

I joined the Royal College of Nursing in 1957 and I am still an active member and fellow of the c...

Lord Watson of Invergowrie | 769 cc186-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I shall speak to Amendment 87 in particular, but before I do so I shall address a few r...

Lord Balfe | 769 cc189-190 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, part of the problem here is that the Government have a bit of history to live down on t...

Baroness Donaghy | 769 cc190-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I, too, thank the noble Lord, Lord Hayward, for putting some balance into the debate. I...

Lord Stoneham of Droxford | 769 cc191-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I share experience of the print industry with the noble Lord, Lord King, although mine ...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 769 cc193-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this has been a very interesting debate. I believe that our proposals can save money, s...

Lord Sawyer | 769 c194 (Link to this contribution)

Perhaps the Minister can help me to understand her argument. Let us say that in a local authority...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 769 cc194-5 (Link to this contribution)

I do not think we are requiring anything here; we are introducing a level of transparency, and ho...

Lord Beecham | 769 c195 (Link to this contribution)

Perhaps the noble Baroness will recall that Bristol has an independent mayor, who controls the co...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 769 c195 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the noble Lord for correcting me. The point I was making is that it is interesti...

Lord Hayward | 769 c195 (Link to this contribution)

For the sake of accuracy, following the comment of the noble Lord, Lord Beecham, the independent ...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 769 cc195-6 (Link to this contribution)

In London, local government displays significant variances. Lambeth Council spends 0.33% of its p...

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 769 cc196-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, as the Minister said, this has been an interesting debate, but I have to ask one questi...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 769 c197 (Link to this contribution)

The whole point about transparency is to encourage efficiency of use. I explained by reference to...

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 769 c197 (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry to intervene in this debate, but I wonder whether I could make an additional point. Ma...

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 769 c197 (Link to this contribution)

And the intention is clearly to moderate—it is not just about transparency. In fact, I thought th...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 769 c197 (Link to this contribution)

We believe that by setting it out in a clear way and doing the numbers on a consistent basis we w...

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 769 c197 (Link to this contribution)

As I hear from behind me, who says they are improvements? The point is that for local government,...

Lord Beecham | 769 c197 (Link to this contribution)

Would not my noble friend agree that the answer to her question is really that this clause paves ...

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 769 c198 (Link to this contribution)

Yes, it was a point that I made in my original case—that is why we do not think, as the noble Lor...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 769 c198 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Neville-Rolfe

78A: Clause 12, page 8, leave out lines 36 to 39 and ...

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 769 c199 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town

79: Clause 12, page 8, leave out lines 42 an...

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 769 c199 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, rather than looking at the types of organisations that are covered, this amendment look...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 769 cc199-202 (Link to this contribution)

I shall speak to Amendments 87A, 89A and 89B, which are in my name and that of my noble friend La...

Lord Deben | 769 c202 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I address the House as a former Minister for Health and Safety. I agree with almost all...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 769 c203 (Link to this contribution)

Does the noble Lord accept that there are plenty of ways to promote good health and safety practi...

Lord Deben | 769 c203 (Link to this contribution)

There are plenty of good ways, but I have to say to the noble Lord, having said that I agree with...

Baroness Burt of Solihull | 769 cc203-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, these amendments aim to remove from this clause elements of facility time that are used...

Baroness Donaghy | 769 cc204-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I should be clear that I do not support the Government’s intention—I still think it is ...

Lord Monks | 769 cc205-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I want to underline one point: British health and safety standards are the bedrock of E...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 769 c206 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, these amendments all seek to limit the information published under our transparency reg...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 769 c206 (Link to this contribution)

If there is no proposal to change the rule, why not take union reps out of Clause 13, even if the...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 769 cc206-7 (Link to this contribution)

The answer, which I suppose relates mainly to Clause 12, is that we want to ensure that the time ...

Lord Deben | 769 c207 (Link to this contribution)

Where one found a public service in which the amount of time spent on health and safety was manif...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 769 c207 (Link to this contribution)

My noble friend makes a very fair point. Transparency will show where money is being spent, and s...

Lord Harris of Haringey | 769 c207 (Link to this contribution)

Are the Government planning to have a provision that not only sets a cap but sets a floor?

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 769 c207 (Link to this contribution)

That is not the current proposal.

Amendment 87 would require employers to publish an estima...

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 769 cc207-8 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister and am grateful for the contributions to this debate. The problem is that wh...

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