UK Parliament / Open data

Investigatory Powers Bill

Debate on bills on Tuesday, 1 November 2016, in the House of Commons, led by Ben Wallace. The answering members were Diane Abbott and Robert Buckland.
Lords amendments considered. Speaker announced that Lords amendments 270 and 271 engaged Commons financial privilege. Motion to disagree with Lords amendment 11, discussed with motions to disagree with Lords amendments 12 to 15, and 338 to 339. Lords amendments 11 to 14, and 338 to 339, disagreed to on question. Motion to disagree with Lords amendment 15 agreed to on division (298 to 261). Lords amendment 15 accordingly disagreed to. Lords amendment 1, discussed with Lords amendments 2 to 10, 16 to 337 and 340 to 377. All agreed to on question, with Commons financial privilege waived in respect of Lords amendments 270 and 271. Ordered that a Committee be appointed to draw up Reasons to be assigned to the Lords for disagreeing to their amendments 11 to 15, 338 and 339. Reasons Committee reported its reasons to the House and these were agreed to on question. Message to the Lords to communicate the said Reasons with the Bill.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

616 cc813-859 

Session

2016-17

Department

Home Office

Legislative stage

Lords amendments

Chamber / Committee

House of Commons chamber
Investigatory Powers Bill 2015-16 to 2016-17. Lords amendments.
Monday, 31 October 2016
Bills
House of Commons
INVESTIGATORY POWERS BILL (PROGRAMME) (NO. 3)
Tuesday, 1 November 2016
Parliamentary proceedings
House of Commons

Proceeding contributions

John Bercow | 616 c814 (Link to this contribution)

Before we come to the first group of amendments, may I say that, as the House knows, there are 37...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 616 c814 (Link to this contribution)

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. You have made reference to the Sewel convention and to the legis...


Show all contributions (117)
John Bercow | 616 cc814-5 (Link to this contribution)

I am very grateful to the hon. Gentleman for advance notice of his point of order. Might I just m...

Ben Wallace | 616 c815 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move, That this House disagrees with Lords amendment 11.

John Bercow | 616 c815 (Link to this contribution)

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Lords amendment 12, and Governmen...

Ben Wallace | 616 cc815-6 (Link to this contribution)

The Investigatory Powers Bill will provide a world-leading framework for the use of investigatory...

Mark Field | 616 c816 (Link to this contribution)

While I entirely accept that this is not the place to deal with those matters, I hope the Ministe...

Ben Wallace | 616 c816 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend, and I do, of course, recognise the strength of feeling abo...

Chris Bryant | 616 c816 (Link to this contribution)

I am wholly in favour of most of the other provisions of the Bill, but that is not the point we a...

Ben Wallace | 616 cc816-7 (Link to this contribution)

I know that the hon. Gentleman is an impatient individual, but 10 weeks is not a long time to wai...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 616 c817 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes a crucially important point. If SNP Members do not require the Sewel consent...

Ben Wallace | 616 c817 (Link to this contribution)

This is a very important point of principle.

Joanna Cherry | 616 c817 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister asked me a question. I can only remind him of what Mr Speaker said when he was in th...

Ben Wallace | 616 c817 (Link to this contribution)

I think we can debate Zippy another time.

This is about an important issue of principle. Th...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 616 c817 (Link to this contribution)

What the hon. and learned Member for Edinburgh South West (Joanna Cherry) said may well be true, ...

Ben Wallace | 616 c818 (Link to this contribution)

Not for the first time, my hon. Friend is absolutely right. This is the last opportunity to amend...

Joanna Cherry | 616 c818 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister is in a slightly unfair position because he did not pilot the Bill through the Bill ...

Ben Wallace | 616 c818 (Link to this contribution)

In the words of the hon. and learned Lady, my head does not zip up the back either. This is an am...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 616 c818 (Link to this contribution)

We have developed a fascinating constitutional suggestion that amendments made by SNP Members of ...

Ben Wallace | 616 c818 (Link to this contribution)

I am keen to move on, but merely say that how SNP Members vote today will certainly be a clear si...

Andrew Murrison | 616 c818 (Link to this contribution)

The solution, of course, would be for the Government to accept Baroness Hollins’ amendments, and ...

Andrew Murrison | 616 c819 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is right to say so.

Does the Minister accept that the only objection to this...

Ben Wallace | 616 c819 (Link to this contribution)

I hear my hon. Friend’s comments, but this is like saying, “Because we’re being blackmailed, we s...

Dominic Raab | 616 c819 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister for that reassurance. I welcome the Government’s approach, particularly in a...

Ben Wallace | 616 c819 (Link to this contribution)

The whole House will hear my hon. Friend’s comments. He is a dedicated campaigner on privacy—in f...

Ben Wallace | 616 c819 (Link to this contribution)

No, I am sorry.

On that basis, I urge this House to reject the Lords amendments in relation...

Diane Abbott | 616 c820 (Link to this contribution)

I rise to speak to the group of amendments and to Lords amendment 15 in particular. I pay tribute...

Simon Hoare | 616 c820 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady is new to her position, as is the Minister. I served on the Bill Committee and she ...

Diane Abbott | 616 c820 (Link to this contribution)

We are not in the habit of artifice or crutches. Let us see what Members in the other place do wi...

Chris Bryant | 616 c820 (Link to this contribution)

Is not the point that the amendments almost exactly replicate legislation that was introduced by ...

Diane Abbott | 616 c820 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for making an important intervention. Nobody is trying to hold up...

Ben Wallace | 616 c820 (Link to this contribution)

In that spirit, perhaps the hon. Lady could answer the question asked by my hon. Friend the Membe...

Diane Abbott | 616 c821 (Link to this contribution)

I do not deal in supposition. Let us see what Members in the other place do with the Bill, and at...

Simon Hoare | 616 c821 (Link to this contribution)

I have heard the hon. Lady say in other places what a future Labour Government would deliver. Tha...

Diane Abbott | 616 c821 (Link to this contribution)

When the hon. Gentleman heard me say those things, I was not yet shadow Home Secretary.

The...

Dominic Raab | 616 c821 (Link to this contribution)

For all the differences between me and the hon. Lady, I totally understand the importance that sh...

Diane Abbott | 616 cc821-2 (Link to this contribution)

We are not attempting to hold up the Bill; all the Government have to do is accept the amendments...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 616 cc822-3 (Link to this contribution)

I want to focus on several aspects of Lords amendment 15. First, I want to focus on what it is de...

Richard Drax | 616 c823 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is making an excellent speech, as always. Does he agree that the regional press, w...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 616 c823 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The regional press and local newspapers will simply not be ab...

Andrew Murrison | 616 c823 (Link to this contribution)

As ever, I am listening to my hon. Friend’s comments with a great deal of interest. I fear, howev...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 616 c823 (Link to this contribution)

That is not what the amendment does. It includes all the press, so the Midsomer Norton, Radstock ...

Matt Warman | 616 c823 (Link to this contribution)

I hesitate to criticise the wisdom of my hon. Friend the Member for South West Wiltshire (Dr Murr...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 616 cc824-5 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is right. Although some newspapers are part of bigger media groups, those media gr...

Joanna Cherry | 616 c825 (Link to this contribution)

I hesitate to give the hon. Gentleman a lecture on constitutional procedure, but I can give him f...

Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 616 c825 (Link to this contribution)

Order. The hon. and learned Lady will very shortly have an opportunity to make her speech in full...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 616 c825 (Link to this contribution)

I will cover that point, and then swiftly come to a conclusion. The amendment was passed on 11 Oc...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 616 cc825-6 (Link to this contribution)

I will leave the hon. and learned Lady to come back to this point in her own speech.

These ...

Joanna Cherry | 616 cc826-7 (Link to this contribution)

I rise to give the Scottish National party’s support to this group of Lords amendments.

Muc...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 616 c827 (Link to this contribution)

In the event that such a legislative consent motion were refused, would the hon. and learned Lady...

Joanna Cherry | 616 cc827-8 (Link to this contribution)

I assure the hon. Gentleman that it would not come to that, because if the amendment is passed by...

Ben Wallace | 616 c828 (Link to this contribution)

On memorandum 10, to which the hon. and learned Lady refers, is she saying that she is happy to a...

Joanna Cherry | 616 c828 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is no doubt aware of what I did for a career before I came here. I have no int...

Lord Vaizey of Didcot | 616 c828 (Link to this contribution)

I will be as brief as possible. First, let me say how much I have enjoyed this afternoon’s debate...

Lord Vaizey of Didcot | 616 cc828-9 (Link to this contribution)

Yes, I should be. But being locked up as a Minister, I did not have the benefit of hearing the wi...

Joanna Cherry | 616 c829 (Link to this contribution)

The right hon. Gentleman should try very hard not to misrepresent what I have said. I have not ma...

Lord Vaizey of Didcot | 616 c829 (Link to this contribution)

As my hon. Friend the Member for North East Somerset pointed out, the Scottish Parliament has had...

Lord Vaizey of Didcot | 616 c829 (Link to this contribution)

She did not answer either of them, so she would not answer me and I will not take her interventio...

Andrew Murrison | 616 c829 (Link to this contribution)

Does my right hon. Friend agree that there is some help for us in this extremely big Bill at clau...

Lord Vaizey of Didcot | 616 c830 (Link to this contribution)

No. I have read the Bill, and in particular spent some time pondering whether clause 232 could he...

Andrew Murrison | 616 c831 (Link to this contribution)

Will my right hon. Friend explain how small press outlets will be impacted by the Hollins amendme...

Lord Vaizey of Didcot | 616 c831 (Link to this contribution)

That is precisely the point. I was intrigued by what the hon. and learned Lady said. She said tha...

Chris Bryant | 616 cc831-2 (Link to this contribution)

I was struck by the Minister—well, not physically—I was struck by the Minister’s accusation that ...

Simon Hoare | 616 c832 (Link to this contribution)

Is the hon. Gentleman not—I dare say inadvertently—making the point that underscores, rather than...

Chris Bryant | 616 c832 (Link to this contribution)

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 616 c832 (Link to this contribution)

Order. The hon. Member for North Dorset (Simon Hoare) cannot give way and the hon. Member for Rho...

Simon Hoare | 616 c832 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful, Madam Deputy Speaker.

Chris Bryant | 616 cc832-3 (Link to this contribution)

Well, I do not think the hon. Gentleman will be allowed to make a very long speech, as we do not ...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 616 c833 (Link to this contribution)

If the hon. Gentleman does not like IPSO, how can he think that IMPRESS is any better? It is appr...

Chris Bryant | 616 cc833-4 (Link to this contribution)

It is not my business to decide which of the two is better. The whole point is that we set up—thr...

Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 616 c834 (Link to this contribution)

Order. I am sure that in addition to the things that the hon. Gentleman says that he wants, he wi...

Chris Bryant | 616 c835 (Link to this contribution)

I would have finished already if you had not interrupted me, Madam Deputy Speaker.

Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 616 c835 (Link to this contribution)

I do not think that the hon. Gentleman meant that quite the way it sounded to the Chair.

Chris Bryant | 616 c835 (Link to this contribution)

I had one sentence left to say: the Conservatives promised it; the two Houses voted for it; it is...

Tom Tugendhat | 616 cc835-6 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to be called to speak in this important debate. The changes that the Lords have bro...

Joanna Cherry | 616 c836 (Link to this contribution)

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Tom Tugendhat | 616 c836 (Link to this contribution)

I hope the hon. and learned Lady will forgive me if I do not, for reasons of time.

Having b...

Alistair Carmichael | 616 cc836-7 (Link to this contribution)

I always listen very carefully to the hon. Member for Tonbridge and Malling (Tom Tugendhat), and ...

Damian Collins | 616 cc837-8 (Link to this contribution)

There will be Members who feel that section 40 should be implemented immediately and others who f...

Richard Drax | 616 c838 (Link to this contribution)

I am honoured to be called to speak in the debate, and I rise to talk about Lords amendment 15. I...

Matt Warman | 616 cc838-9 (Link to this contribution)

This short, impassioned debate about the freedom of the press has surely proved that a 90-minute ...

Ben Wallace | 616 c839 (Link to this contribution)

Every morning I go into my office and I open a number of documents. They are not nice reading. Th...

Ben Wallace | 616 c844 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move, That this House agrees with Lords amendment 1.

Lindsay Hoyle | 616 c844 (Link to this contribution)

With this we may take Lords amendments 2 to 10, 16 to 337 and 340 to 377.

Ben Wallace | 616 cc844-5 (Link to this contribution)

The Investigatory Powers Bill will ensure that the police and the security and intelligence agenc...

Dominic Grieve | 616 c845 (Link to this contribution)

May I put on record my appreciation for the way that the Minister listened to the representations...

Ben Wallace | 616 cc846-7 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my right hon. and learned Friend for his comments. Although it would be nice to ...

Diane Abbott | 616 cc847-8 (Link to this contribution)

Like the Minister, I came to the Bill towards the end, but I am happy to claim credit just like h...

Steve McCabe | 616 c848 (Link to this contribution)

Does my hon. Friend agree that despite these reservations, the almost 300 amendments that the Gov...

Diane Abbott | 616 c848 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his, as usual, very wise observation. There is no question bu...

Andrew Murrison | 616 c848 (Link to this contribution)

It is not a question of being forced. The hon. Lady may recall that this measure was subject to a...

Diane Abbott | 616 c848 (Link to this contribution)

Right at the beginning of this debate, I made a point of acknowledging the very hard work of hon....

Ben Wallace | 616 c849 (Link to this contribution)

Perhaps I could pick up on some of the concerns of Liberty. We will all have had in our inboxes t...

Diane Abbott | 616 c849 (Link to this contribution)

I have no doubt that stakeholders will look at the amended Bill, and if it returns to us from the...

Lucy Frazer | 616 cc849-850 (Link to this contribution)

Privacy is an essential right in a democratic society. It is a basic civil right, protected by st...

Joanna Cherry | 616 c850 (Link to this contribution)

Unlike the Minister and the shadow Home Secretary, but like the hon. and learned Member for South...

Suella Braverman | 616 c850 (Link to this contribution)

I am pleased to note that the hon. and learned Member for Edinburgh South West (Joanna Cherry) an...

Joanna Cherry | 616 cc850-1 (Link to this contribution)

I agree that the legislation is essential. The SNP believes that it is important to give the secu...

Andrew Murrison | 616 c851 (Link to this contribution)

On the question of proportionality, does the hon. and learned Lady agree that the proposals must ...

Joanna Cherry | 616 cc851-2 (Link to this contribution)

I agree with the hon. Gentleman that at some point the House needs to look at the mass harvesting...

Robert Buckland | 616 c852 (Link to this contribution)

I listened very carefully to what the hon. and learned Lady said about the double lock. Surely th...

Joanna Cherry | 616 c852 (Link to this contribution)

I do not accept that the Government have gone as far as some of us would have liked them to go on...

Robert Buckland | 616 c852 (Link to this contribution)

We are all keen to claim the credit, but let us not forget that the Government’s position from th...

Joanna Cherry | 616 c852 (Link to this contribution)

Indeed, but the fine detail on the double lock—that is what enables the Solicitor General to get ...

Suella Braverman | 616 c852 (Link to this contribution)

Will the hon. and learned Lady give way?

Joanna Cherry | 616 cc852-3 (Link to this contribution)

I will make a little progress, and then give way again, because I do not want to take up too much...

Robert Buckland | 616 c853 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. and learned Lady will agree, first, that legal professional privilege has for the first ...

Joanna Cherry | 616 cc853-4 (Link to this contribution)

I read with interest the debates in the Lords about legal professional privilege. I noted careful...

Suella Braverman | 616 cc854-7 (Link to this contribution)

This landmark legislation enables our security, intelligence and law enforcement services to cont...

Huw Merriman | 616 cc857-8 (Link to this contribution)

I am pleased to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Fareham (Suella Fernandes) and to speak in s...

Ben Wallace | 616 cc858-9 (Link to this contribution)

I wish to place on record our gratitude to the Labour party, the Liberal Democrats, the Scottish ...

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